Cab alert sounds

[Inversnecky]

I know AWS, put what’s the high pitched beeping in this class 87, eg at 0:50?

 

[221129]

I know AWS, put what’s the high pitched beeping in this class 87, eg at 0:50?

Is that not the DSD/Vigilance?

 

[87 027]

Vigilance alarm? Or as I say to my sons when I play TrainSim or BVE, the "driver falling asleep" alert!

 

[221129]

Vigilance alarm? Or as I say to my sons when I play TrainSim or BVE, the "driver falling asleep" alert!

Correct

 

[hexagon789]

I know AWS, put what’s the high pitched beeping in this class 87, eg at 0:50?

As 221129 says it's the Driver Vigilance Device alarm, driver then lifts and then depresses the Driver Safety Device (Deadman's) footpedal to cancel it.

 

[MrEd]

I know AWS, put what’s the high pitched beeping in this class 87, eg at 0:50?

I’m fairly sure that’s the Driver’s Vigilance Device, part of the driver’s safety device. When the warbler which you hear goes off, the driver has to take his foot off the DSD pedal and depress it again within seconds, otherwise the train brakes will be applied. I believe the driver on an 87 also has a push button on the desk which he can use to silence the warbler and prevent a brake application.

The reason for there being a vigilance device on all second-generation locos (and some first-generation, such as 86s, which were retro-fitted with one) is that the DSD pedal (sometimes called the deadman’s pedal in older parlance, though I do not think this is an official name) alone is not thought to be fail-safe against a driver falling asleep at the controls. A more sophisticated mechanism is needed to verify that the driver is both conscious and concentrating. Accident reports from Bridgwater (1974) and Morpeth (1984) suggest that drivers fell asleep at the controls of a Peak and a 47 respectively but managed to keep the DSD depressed. A vigilance device with its warbler could have roused the driver to his senses or ensured that the brakes were applied.

 

[hexagon789]

I’m fairly sure that’s the Driver’s Vigilance Device, part of the driver’s safety device. When the warbler which you hear goes off, the driver has to take his foot off the DSD pedal and depress it again within seconds, otherwise the train brakes will be applied. I believe the driver on an 87 also has a push button on the desk which he can use to silence the warbler and prevent a brake application.

The reason for there being a vigilance device on all second-generation locos (and some first-generation, such as 86s, which were retro-fitted with one) is that the DSD pedal (sometimes called the deadman’s pedal in older parlance, though I do not think this is an official name) alone is not thought to be fail-safe against a driver falling asleep at the controls. A more sophisticated mechanism is needed to verify that the driver is both conscious and concentrating. Accident reports from Bridgwater (1974) and Morpeth (1984) suggest that drivers fell asleep at the controls of a Peak and a 47 respectively but managed to keep the DSD depressed. A vigilance device with its warbler could have roused the driver to his senses or ensured that the brakes were applied.

Strictly against the rules but some drivers would weigh the DSD down with a kit bag or even a brick, adding vigilance also meant that wouldn't defeat the system ensuring the driver was still alert and in full charge of their train

 

[Inversnecky]

Thanks. That did cross my mind, but I didn’t realise it was on older locos like that.

 

[87 027]

Also in the 1970s film Silver Streak, which has a spectacular ending scene where the loco crashes at full speed into the buffers at the terminus situation, the signaller refuses to believe that the train is a runaway because the driver has been shot dead by the baddies. He says, "that's impossible, who's driving the train?" The scene then cuts away to an empty cab with the driver's bag weighting down the pedal. One of my favourite films...

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks. That did cross my mind, but I didn’t realise it was on older locos like that.

I believe 87s were the first electrics and HST power cars the first diesels so equipped. They are of similar vintage of course.

Also in the 1970s film Silver Streak, which has a spectacular ending scene where the loco crashes at full speed into the buffers at the terminus situation, the signaller refuses to believe that the train is a runaway because the driver has been shot dead by the baddies. He says, "that's impossible, who's driving the train?" The scene then cuts away to an empty cab with the driver's bag weighting down the pedal. One of my favourite films...

I distinctly remember my grandad who worked for BR, telling me some drivers would use a brick to weigh down the pedal because on some locos the deadman's were uncomfortable to hold down for any period. Thank goodness they don't do that these days!

 

[Inversnecky]

Is/was the ‘warbler’ on a set timer, or what were the conditions that set it off? For example, no control being operated in a set time (guess something just for more modern than an 87)?

 

[hexagon789]

Is/was the ‘warbler’ on a set timer, or what were the conditions that set it off? For example, no control being operated in a set time (guess something just for more modern than an 87)?

Nominally 60 seconds but some older designs used an air-based control system for timer the DVD which could vary between overhauls, HSTs had this so the actual time could be anything down to about 45 seconds and varied between power cars.

And older designs don't seem to be integrated with the controls either, they will go off regardless of when the last time any handle was moved or button was pressed was. All that mattered was the DSD pedal.

 

[whoosh]

Talk of circumventing Deadman's handles always reminds me of one of the most bizarre accidents, at Manors Station in Newcastle in 1926, where the rescue crews were left scratching their heads as to why they couldn't find the body of the driver in the wreckage of the crashed EMU.

His body was found, it turned out, next to an overbridge abutment some way back - about a mile away - having tied the dead man's handle down with two handkerchiefs and it was thought he may have been spying on a courting couple in the saloon behind him - which he could only have seen by leaning out of the cab door and looking through an external window of the saloon.

Whether the courting couple was the reason or not, he had been facing away from the direction of travel as the marks on his body and the bridge abutment attested to.

A very strange accident indeed!

 

[scotraildriver]

Oddly Class 156 doesn't have vigilance.

 

[hexagon789]

Oddly Class 156 doesn't have vigilance.

Indeed, they were planned to be fitted after introduction to service but it never seems to have happened. I believe that some 150s (possibly GWR? I can't remember exactly) have been retro-fitted a good few years ago iirc

 

[MrEd]

I believe 87s were the first electrics and HST power cars the first diesels so equipped. They are of similar vintage of course.


I distinctly remember my grandad who worked for BR, telling me some drivers would use a brick to weigh down the pedal because on some locos the deadman's were uncomfortable to hold down for any period. Thank goodness they don't do that these days!

I wonder which locos they were uncomfortable on? The accident reports for Stanton Gate, Bridgwater and Morpeth suggest that the DSDs on 45s and 47s were little more than glorified foot rests, which took very little effort to keep depressed. The DSD on a 40 doesn’t look particularly substantial either. The one on a 31 looks better.

 

[hexagon789]

I wonder which locos they were uncomfortable on? The accident reports for Stanton Gate, Bridgwater and Morpeth suggest that the DSDs on 45s and 47s were little more than glorified foot rests, which took very little effort to keep depressed. The DSD on a 40 doesn’t look particularly substantial either. The one on a 31 looks better.

A good question, perhaps some current/ex-drivers might know

 

[Kneedown]

A good question, perhaps some current/ex-drivers might know

It all depends on the design of the pedal, the strength of the spring, and state of the contacts which can vary between members of the same class. I find a fairly wide pedal that is proud of the floor to be the most comfortable, although with some HST's the contacts must be quite dirty or worn as the slightest foot movement will start it bleeping at you, and takes a couple of good stamps to reset. A 156 has the most uncomfortable of pedals despite not being fitted with vigilance. It's too narrow to fit both feet on, sits flush with the floor, with a vary vague deténte between depressed and not depressed. You consciously have to put excess pressure on to avoid stopping suddenly. A vigilance would help in this case!

 

[hexagon789]

It all depends on the design of the pedal, the strength of the spring, and state of the contacts which can vary between members of the same class. I find a fairly wide pedal that is proud of the floor to be the most comfortable, although with some HST's the contacts must be quite dirty or worn as the slightest foot movement will start it bleeping at you, and takes a couple of good stamps to reset. A 156 has the most uncomfortable of pedals despite not being fitted with vigilance. It's too narrow to fit both feet on, sits flush with the floor, with a vary vague deténte between depressed and not depressed. You consciously have to put excess pressure on to avoid stopping suddenly. A vigilance would help in this case!

I've heard that 150s are uncomfortable too. Locos is the thing I have no reference on

 

[driver9000]

I've heard that 150s are uncomfortable too. Locos is the thing I have no reference on

I found 150s to be generally fine and only a problem if the pedal sunk below the foot well level. On some 150/1s you could inadvertently "let go" and get a brake application if the pedal wasn't sitting quite right when going over pointwork.

Northern modified one end of 156420 around 10 years ago which put the pedal on one side of the foot well and it was incredibly uncomfortable to drive forcing you to use just one foot. It was later modified so the whole foot well became the DSD pedal which was much better.

 

[Deltic1]

Talking of sprinter DSD pedals, I worked on a 156 a little while ago where the whole floor under the desk was the pedal, I suppose it's some kind of experiment?

After 60 seconds of no activity the vigilance alarm sounds
6 seconds (or 3 seconds on a sprinter) the brakes come on
30 seconds after the GSMR prepares to make an automatic emergency call.

 

[hexagon789]

I found 150s to be generally fine and only a problem if the pedal sunk below the foot well level. On some 150/1s you could inadvertently "let go" and get a brake application if the pedal wasn't sitting quite right when going over pointwork.

Northern modified one end of 156420 around 10 years ago which put the pedal on one side of the foot well and it was incredibly uncomfortable to drive forcing you to use just one foot. It was later modified so the whole foot well became the DSD pedal which was much better.

Maybe it wasn't 150s then

 

[driver9000]

Talking of sprinter DSD pedals, I worked on a 156 a little while ago where the whole floor under the desk was the pedal, I suppose it's some kind of experiment?

That will be 156420.

 

[Kneedown]

I've heard that 150s are uncomfortable too. Locos is the thing I have no reference on

150's were fine. No vigilance on /0's or /1's but the pedal design made for a relaxed drive.

 

[hexagon789]

150's were fine. No vigilance on /0's or /1's but the pedal design made for a relaxed drive.

I'm thinking now it wasn't 150s, possibly it was Pacers(?), a DMU of some description with only DSD no vigilance.