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DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)

py_megapixel

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I must be among a minority of people who didn't think the old colour scheme looked particularly dated.

In fact, didn't the original concept images for these new units have the old colours?
 
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AMR

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I assume the new CAF Variations would replace the 1986 stock DLR trains, I looked it up there are 11 1986 stock DLR trains in service, they must be keeping one for nostalgia.
 

popeter45

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I assume the new CAF Variations would replace the 1986 stock DLR trains, I looked it up there are 11 1986 stock DLR trains in service, they must be keeping one for nostalgia.
all the 86 stock was gone by 1991 so none are left
they couldnt go in any tunnels so prettu consteained on the DLR network one extensions took place
 

jopsuk

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I assume the new CAF Variations would replace the 1986 stock DLR trains, I looked it up there are 11 1986 stock DLR trains in service, they must be keeping one for nostalgia.
Is what you looked up this table on wikipedia?
1614809239787.png
because if so you'll notice if you look again that there's withdrawal dates for the P86 and P89
The order replaces the B90 & 92 stock and allows an increase in frequency and train length ( i think this ends 2-car operation entirely)
 

popeter45

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Is what you looked up this table on wikipedia?
View attachment 91820
because if so you'll notice if you look again that there's withdrawal dates for the P86 and P89
The order replaces the B90 & 92 stock and allows an increase in frequency and train length ( i think this ends 2-car operation entirely)
speaking of when was the last time a single unit worked on its own?
 

Taunton

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It's extraordinary that the original P86 cars are still running in Essen, while the trains ordered to replace them are themselves now up for replacement. Using them constantly I actually don't find anything wrong with them. It seems to be once again TfL profligacy. The trains being replaced have a better seating arrangement than the ones that came for the Olympics (always a disappointment when I see one of these coming), and the new ones now seem notably worse again.

I'm reminded of the US President's helicopter, where a replacement project started off and rapidly got to a cost of many billions, and I think they were going to have a fleet of more than 20. President Obama finally stopped that one with the comment "I don't see what's wrong with the current helicopter, it seems fine". And it was. And 10 years on, it still is.

speaking of when was the last time a single unit worked on its own?
Probably late 1990s, when the Beckton line first opened as a shuttle just to Poplar.
 

61653 HTAFC

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It's extraordinary that the original P86 cars are still running in Essen, while the trains ordered to replace them are themselves now up for replacement. Using them constantly I actually don't find anything wrong with them. It seems to be once again TfL profligacy. The trains being replaced have a better seating arrangement than the ones that came for the Olympics (always a disappointment when I see one of these coming), and the new ones now seem notably worse again.

I'm reminded of the US President's helicopter, where a replacement project started off and rapidly got to a cost of many billions, and I think they were going to have a fleet of more than 20. President Obama finally stopped that one with the comment "I don't see what's wrong with the current helicopter, it seems fine". And it was. And 10 years on, it still is.

Probably late 1990s, when the Beckton line first opened as a shuttle just to Poplar.
Given they were withdrawn from DLR not because they were worn out but because of them being unsuitable for the Bank extension (and subsequent later tunnels), it isn't that remarkable that they're still in use in Essen- though with the oldest units hitting 35 they probably aren't too long for this world (AIUI some units have already been broken up for spares to keep the rest going). If anything the surprise is that they found a second home, given the substantial rebuilding required for use on a radically different system. The other big surprise really is that it's taken until now for TfL to accept reality and go for full-length sets, given the inadequacy of a single unit for the past 25 years.

I do have a vague memory of a single set being in use on the Lewisham line in around 2002-ish, but could well be my mind playing tricks.
 

317666

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Regarding the P86/P89 units in Essen - new stock was ordered a few years ago to replace these between 2023 and 2025.
 

TheManWho

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I swear I saw one at some point in 2019, albeit during disruption. Not sure where it was going, or if it was in service!
Wouldn't have been in service, single units have not been used in service since before 2002.

I personally have not heard of any single unit stock transfers for a number of years now
 

Taunton

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You can of course regularly see single units moving inside the depots at night. A number of the older sidings are only 2-cars long, so the normal 3-car units have to be split up. When this started, and couplers began being used multiple times a day instead of only when heavy maintenance was required, i believe it led to some coupler wear and unreliability.

A couple of years ago weekend services were knocked back to 2-car operation, but since the lockdown came in they now seem to run 3-car at all times.
 

southern442

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Is it just me or is it a bit mean to have the front-facing seats high-backed, so now the view out the front is somewhat reduced?
 

Taunton

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Is it just me or is it a bit mean to have the front-facing seats high-backed, so now the view out the front is somewhat reduced?
... or to have taken half the forward-facing seats (now 8, will be 4), always the most popular, out altogether?
 

rebmcr

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I was going to say that too, they seem to be getting a bit people-mover-y.
Well their job is to move people — a lot of people! Trying to make them a sightseeing tour of the docklands at the expense of doing their job isn't justifiable.

Especially when docklands sightseeing is the job of the cable car.
 

JaJaWa

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Is it just me or is it a bit mean to have the front-facing seats high-backed, so now the view out the front is somewhat reduced?
I would guess the driver needs a high-backed seat for safety reasons.
 

Taunton

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I would guess the driver needs a high-backed seat for safety reasons.
Rarely driven from here. But meanwhile all the passengers in the now wholly side-facing seats or (mostly) standing, quite unsupported, who would be thrown all over the place in any collision, are presumably irrelevant in such a view.
 

Vindaloo 42

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I agree, I'd have stuck with the original "white body, blue skirt and relevant colour of doors" livery which was basically timeless and could have lasted forever.
TFL seem to switch between independent liveries and the corporate livery depending on the time of day, what colour socks they're wearing and the direction of the wind.

The artists impressions for the Crossrail 345s showed them in TfL corporate livery but the final product was an independent multi-colour blue/purple livery.

See https://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-rolling-stock-and-depot-contract-to-be-awarded-to-bombardier

I’ve seen a photoshopped image of a B07 stock in London Under/Overground livery but with the turquoise front and doors installed of red/orange. Looked fantastic.
Knock yourself out. :D

 
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southern442

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Well their job is to move people — a lot of people! Trying to make them a sightseeing tour of the docklands at the expense of doing their job isn't justifiable.

Especially when docklands sightseeing is the job of the cable car.
True, but I still think there are a fair amount of journeys on the DLR that warrant being seated comfortably, so a little more seating like in the B07's would be appreciated.
 

sga962

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I’ve seen a photoshopped image of a B07 stock in London Under/Overground livery but with the turquoise front and doors installed of red/orange. Looked fantastic.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Indeed it is this image I mean, and I think it looks extremely smart compared to this mockup, and indeed the present livery.
 

spinba11

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Is what you looked up this table on wikipedia?
View attachment 91820
because if so you'll notice if you look again that there's withdrawal dates for the P86 and P89
The order replaces the B90 & 92 stock and allows an increase in frequency and train length ( i think this ends 2-car operation entirely)
What’s the difference between the 4 different types in service ATM if I’m reading it right, I thought they were 2 types (full glass doors and half glass door)
 

southern442

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What’s the difference between the 4 different types in service ATM if I’m reading it right, I thought they were 2 types (full glass doors and half glass door)
They're basically the same, the key difference is when they were ordered and entered service. ie the B90/B92/B2K stock are all the same design but ordered at different times, and the B07 is the newer design for capacity increases.
 

Chris M

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I swear I saw one at some point in 2019, albeit during disruption. Not sure where it was going, or if it was in service!
Almost certainly due to some sort of unit failure. Winter 2010/11 was the only time I've seen a single unit outside a depot, it was being driven at walking page (literally, there were staff walking with it) and followed by a three or four car train (the other unit(s) of the train had I presume been attached to the following train). This was between Cyprus and Gallions Reach as it was being worked back to Beckton depot following some sort of major failure.
 

TheManWho

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Almost certainly due to some sort of unit failure. Winter 2010/11 was the only time I've seen a single unit outside a depot, it was being driven at walking page (literally, there were staff walking with it) and followed by a three or four car train (the other unit(s) of the train had I presume been attached to the following train). This was between Cyprus and Gallions Reach as it was being worked back to Beckton depot following some sort of major failure.
That was a unit failure at Custom House- vehicle has to be uncoupled so returned to the depot as a single and double unit
 

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