DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)

[StratfordP]

does anyone know which bits of the DLR they are intended to be used on initially?

 

[TheManWho]

does anyone know which bits of the DLR they are intended to be used on initially?

Currently, the B23s are only planned to operate from Beckton depot, so eventually it will probably be any route apart from the Stratford to Canary Wharf/Lewisham route.

 

[ijmad]

From a post on another place:

The end-state plan puts the remaining B07s all as 3-car sets working Tower - Beckton (6/8 trains off-peak/peak) and Stratford Int - Woolwich (5/7 trains off-peak/peak), the latter being a mixed service with B23s. There are at least three stock/formation rotations before we get to that point though, so plenty of changes between now and 2026. Even after the full deployment of the B23’s, including the extra Housing Infra Fund funded trains, the Stratford Int - Beckton service is planned to continue to be operated by short formed B07’s all day.

 

[StratfordP]

Ah that’s interesting thanks!

 

[Thirteen]

I wonder if once the B23s are in service if the B07s will be taken out of service to be refurbished, it wouldn't make sense to refurbish them now since it would mean less rolling stock on the network there should be enough B23s to cover the shortfall by 2026.

 

[MCR247]

I wonder if once the B23s are in service if the B07s will be taken out of service to be refurbished, it wouldn't make sense to refurbish them now since it would mean less rolling stock on the network there should be enough B23s to cover the shortfall by 2026.

Given TfLs ongoing financial situation I’m not sure refurbishing the B07s will be top of their list. Perhaps a deep clean, and a repainting when it’s due anyway, but personally can’t see much more than that

 

[Thirteen]

Given TfLs ongoing financial situation I’m not sure refurbishing the B07s will be top of their list. Perhaps a deep clean, and a repainting when it’s due anyway, but personally can’t see much more than that

I think it'll more than a deep clean and a repaint, I imagine new livery so it's consistent with the B23s and a new moquette. Not sure if they'd be able to change the seating though.

It won't be this year or next but 2026 onwards can't be ruled out.

 

[Snow1964]

I wonder if once the B23s are in service if the B07s will be taken out of service to be refurbished, it wouldn't make sense to refurbish them now since it would mean less rolling stock on the network there should be enough B23s to cover the shortfall by 2026.

Weren't they building extra trains (funded by housing), so initially will have more trains anyway until they introduce the extra services for the proposed developments.

They have already withdrawn few units (1-2 trains) so seem to be able to manage with some never available anyway. The B23s base order quantity is replacing these so adds back 1 or 2 trains.

 

[ijmad]

The B07s can also be run in twos instead of threes if you wanted to do a refurbishment programme, given there are a lot of them running around in twos at the moment on many DLR routes this wouldn't represent much if any of a reduction in service vs today especially when the B23s have landed.

 

[Taunton]

Weren't they building extra trains (funded by housing), so initially will have more trains anyway until they introduce the extra services for the proposed developments.

The additional funding for the B23 stock is under the Housing Infrastructure Fund 2017. I have always regarded this as a substantial improper use of that fund, just scooped by TfL. Rolling stock is NOT infrastructure. There is no additional infrastructure in hand on the DLR. The government is specific in the legislation that it is for "Physical Infrastructure".

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a82d2cee5274a2e8ab59882/DCLG_Introduction_to_Housing_Infrastructure_WEB.pdf

 

[ThameslinkUser]

The government is specific in the legislation that it is for "Physical Infrastructure".

So a council would be able to build a busway and not buy any buses for it? This is semantics of the highest level. It is a levy to improve infrastructure- the Docklands Light Railway is infrastructure and in need of improvement by means of increased capacity.

 

[Taunton]

So a council would be able to build a busway and not buy any buses for it? This is semantics of the highest level. It is a levy to improve infrastructure- the Docklands Light Railway is infrastructure and in need of improvement by means of increased capacity.

Not semantics at all. Nobody said they could not buy any buses. Just not with these funds, thank you. The support for the infrastructure is to build what it says.

Governments are normally fairly tight on using provided Capital funds for operating costs. And "Repairs and Renewals" definitely is in the category of operating costs, for the periodic replacement of rolling stock.

It's not as if it's a trivial amount. The DLR seemed to have scooped abut 20% of the total national infrastructure funding provided for this year.

 

[ijmad]

Given the DLUHC funds also have a specific per-project approval process I'm sure central government are quite alright with this use of money to massively enhance passenger rail capacity in the area where 14,000 more homes are being built.

 

[Snow1964]

Seems the introduction date for the new trains has slipped (per TfL Board Programmes and Investment committee papers published today ahead of next weeks meeting.

Agenda for Programmes and Investment Committee on Wednesday 28 February 2024, 10:00 - Modern Council

board.tfl.gov.uk

New DLR train introduction delayed - Murky Depths

New trains for the DLR will now miss their targeted introduction date with issues encountered during testing according to TfL

www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk

 

[Thirteen]

I suspected it was going to be delayed because there are so many closures in March on the network. #

I wonder if Easter Weekend was the original target

 

[Snow1964]

I suspected it was going to be delayed because there are so many closures in March on the network. #

I wonder if Easter Weekend was the original target

Previous Committee papers since last had said introduction into service March 2024

Now slipped to during Q1 2024-25 (April-June), with final train currently still on schedule for Q2 2026-27 (July-Sept 2026)

 

[Millercool21]

So what exactly will the B23 be replacing?

 

[TheManWho]

So what exactly will the B23 be replacing?

All the B90/B92/B2K 22-99 and 01-16

 

[Millercool21]

There's 94 B90/B92/B2K, but it says there's only 54 B23 stocks being built though, are DLR purchasing more trains then?

 

[stuu]

There's 94 B90/B92/B2K, but it says there's only 54 B23 stocks being built though, are DLR purchasing more trains then?

Each B23 replaces two/three other units as they are the same length (ish) as three older ones

 

[TheManWho]

There's 94 B90/B92/B2K, but it says there's only 54 B23 stocks being built though, are DLR purchasing more trains then?

The B90/B92/B2Ks are single-carriage 30m long vehicles

The B23 are 90m 5-carriage units, so there's more carriages than present

 

[Geogregor]

Mostly about the Beckton depot expansion:

 

[Sunil_P]

When riding an SL2 bus towards North Woolwich, I saw a B23 at Gallions Reach on test on Sunday 24th March.

 

[MPW]

When riding an SL2 bus towards North Woolwich, I saw a B23 at Gallions Reach on test on Sunday 24th March.

What a beauty, thanks for post!

 

[Geogregor]

Interesting webinar about the new DLR trains: