Calder Valley line improvement works

[61653 HTAFC]

Probably lack of paths, units and platform space at Huddersfield. I didn't think it would be too bad changing at Halifax? It could be interesting to see how a Vic-Vic via Diggle, Brighouse and Hebden would work though.

Depending on timings and train lengths, platform space at Huddersfield isn't a deal-breaker: if the Wakefield service was restricted to a 40m unit (now it only goes to Kirkgate it doesn't need more) it could use P5. The two other options (4a and 6) are unoccupied for long periods, and 4 can essentially "double-stack" in the a/b sections. Though AIUI it's preferred to keep 4 free as much as possible, so it can be used to regulate the inevitable disruption with TPE.

Most people just change at Brighouse and wait the twenty or so minutes for the next one to Huddersfield. I can see what you mean though.

Changing at Mirfield is also an option, though there's a walk involved and I'm not sure how good the connections are. The X63 bus from Brighouse is another option (as would be the 503 if Elland ever gets built!).

 

[Bungle965]

Most people just change at Brighouse and wait the twenty or so minutes for the next one to Huddersfield. I can see what you mean though.

Spending 20 minutes in Brighouse is not ideal in any stretch.
There are quite a few people I know who live on the Calder Valley and go to University in Huddersfield and they sometimes end up just going via Manchester than via Brighouse.
Sam

 

[Flyingsprinter]

If units (and at the moment it looks like a big if) ever become available I think an upper Calder valley to Huddersfield service should be at least looked at. The A646 is abosutley rammed and is getting worse. Loads of people from the Calder valley commute to Huddersfield and are forced to go by car as waiting at brighouse for 20 minutes isn’t really a great option. I’m Not sure of the timetable but if that is the wait there and back that’s 40 minutes a day wasted standing at brighouse station.
Also from Todmorden at least there are no buses. It’s a real shame that towns 14 miles away from each other as the crow flies don’t have any public transport links to each other.
Also speaking of Huddersfield are there still palns for a platform 9 to be built? Or has that gone the way of the Halifax platform 3?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

If units (and at the moment it looks like a big if) ever become available I think an upper Calder valley to Huddersfield service should be at least looked at. The A646 is abosutley rammed and is getting worse. Loads of people from the Calder valley commute to Huddersfield are forced to go by car as waiting at brighouse for 20 minutes isn’t really a great option. I’m Not sure of the timetable but if that is the wait there and back that’s 40 minutes a day wasted standing at brighouse station.

Also from Todmorden at least there are no buses. It’s a real shame that towns 14 miles away from each other as the crow flies don’t have any public transport links to each other.

Might be an idea to write or email to Craig Whittaker (the Calder Valley MP) to see what could be done.

 

[Ianigsy]

If people making that journey on a daily basis are using MCards, then is it possible that the demand simply isn't being recognised because all the system will record is somebody touching out at Huddersfield? You would have to dig down to see where individual cardholders live and where they renew in order to have some idea of where people are coming from.

The bus service from Hebden Bridge to Huddersfield via Cragg Vale is sporadic at best but from a commuting point of view, having to change from one hourly service to another really isn't ideal.

 

[Leslie Fletcher]

The bus service from Hebden Bridge to Huddersfield via Cragg Vale ... .

... must be one of the most dramatic bus rides in England. (Off topic I realise and maybe a topic for another forum.)

 

[Halifaxlad]

Well according to Bradford T&A part of the 'Transpennine Route Upgrade' (I do know this thread is about the CVL btw) includes

"increasing capacity at Leeds and Calder Valley stations and enhancing Huddersfield and Stalybridge stations."

Does anybody know what these latest capacity improvements are? A third platform at Halifax perhaps as I can't imagine the Calder Valley being a successful diversionary route without it.

 

[superkev]

I hear Real Times Trains now shows post December trains. Can't see much change nor any sign of Calder Valley trains stopping at Low Moor.
K

 

[superkev]

Today's instalment of the Sowerby Bridge small platform extensions. Is it 2 months on now.
Im glad Network Rail aren't in the house building business. I wonder how much they would charge for a small semi .
K

 

[geoffk]

I hear Real Times Trains now shows post December trains. Can't see much change nor any sign of Calder Valley trains stopping at Low Moor.
K

I think the only change is that Leeds to York and Selby will be split from the Calder Valley service and the Preston - Leeds will become Preston - York (calling at Church Fenton).

 

[geoffk]

Because the government wanted to place the responsibility for cost overruns on TfL, even though it was the fault of Herts County Council that it overran in the first place.

I live nowhere near Watford but why was killing off this scheme sensible, when so much time and money had already been spent? Hertfordshire County Council probably doesn't have the kind of money to pay for rail schemes.

 

[takno]

I live nowhere near Watford but why was killing off this scheme sensible, when so much time and money had already been spent? Hertfordshire County Council probably doesn't have the kind of money to pay for rail schemes.

Most of the money hadn't been spent, and quite a lot of what was spent was spent on rolling stock which has already been redeployed. The amount which hadn't been spent yet was more than the rather weak business case justified, and TfL quite simply didn't have it. Ultimately continuing would have been throwing good money after bad, and would have required cuts elsewhere on the TfL network.

 

[superkev]

Today's instalment of the Sowerby Bridge short platform extensions. Nine weeks progress for around 20m.
K

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Today's instalment of the Sowerby Bridge short platform extensions. Nine weeks progress for around 20m.
KView attachment 53999

It does seem to be taking an awfully long time, wonder if they're using the same project manager that Northern are using for their "refurbishment" programme.

I appreciate the updates though, thanks.

 

[53703]

If units (and at the moment it looks like a big if) ever become available I think an upper Calder valley to Huddersfield service should be at least looked at. The A646 is abosutley rammed and is getting worse. Loads of people from the Calder valley commute to Huddersfield and are forced to go by car as waiting at brighouse for 20 minutes isn’t really a great option. I’m Not sure of the timetable but if that is the wait there and back that’s 40 minutes a day wasted standing at brighouse station.
Also from Todmorden at least there are no buses. It’s a real shame that towns 14 miles away from each other as the crow flies don’t have any public transport links to each other.
Also speaking of Huddersfield are there still palns for a platform 9 to be built? Or has that gone the way of the Halifax platform 3?

Would a Manchester Vic - Rochdale via Huddersfield service work?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Would a Manchester Vic - Rochdale via Huddersfield service work?

It'd make use of the redundant former Oldham loop bay at Rochdale, and would provide a Huddersfield to Upper Calder Valley service... but until the arbitrary (and disingenuous) 6tph TPE disaster is abandoned you'd struggle for paths between Victoria and Huddersfield.

Unless you meant to say Vic-R'dale-Brighouse-Hudds, which in theory would work, though platform constraints at Huddersfield would probably mean limiting it to a 2-car 150, as something will need to fit in P5 if things go awry. This (Friday) afternoon's Wakefield shuttle was a 150 after the 3-car 144 went pop earlier: it was laid up in the sidings at around 1700.

 

[Calderfornian]

As a local I’ve often thought that Blackburn to Huddersfield would join a few dots and enhance NW-SE links across the South Pennines. Totally unsure if the demand is really there though the 901 bus seems to do OK as a Midi sized vehicle but lengthy journey time isn’t exactly attractive.

 

[superkev]

Would occasionally extending the Sheffield trains to Preston or even Blackpool to give Sheffield - Barnsley - Huddersfield -Brighouse- Calder Valley- Preston (Blackpool at weekends) be viable. Journey time would be a bit protracted but I'm sure there are people in Sheffield and Barnsley who would like to goto north via Preston or Blackpool at weekends.
Sheffield Blackpool has always been a difficult journey by car.
K

 

[53703]

It'd make use of the redundant former Oldham loop bay at Rochdale, and would provide a Huddersfield to Upper Calder Valley service... but until the arbitrary (and disingenuous) 6tph TPE disaster is abandoned you'd struggle for paths between Victoria and Huddersfield.

Unless you meant to say Vic-R'dale-Brighouse-Hudds, which in theory would work, though platform constraints at Huddersfield would probably mean limiting it to a 2-car 150, as something will need to fit in P5 if things go awry. This (Friday) afternoon's Wakefield shuttle was a 150 after the 3-car 144 went pop earlier: it was laid up in the sidings at around 1700.

My thinking was extend 1 Victoria/Stalybridge shuttle an hour through to Huddersfield/Rochdale

 

[deltic08]

My thinking was extend 1 Victoria/Stalybridge shuttle an hour through to Huddersfield/Rochdale

Would it fit in between Stalybridge and Huddersfield or have to be non-stop?

 

[Halifaxlad]

If NPR does go via Huddersfield, then the existing Leeds - Bradford - Halifax - Huddersfield services becomes to a degree redundant. If this does indeed happen I think it might be an idea to put the bay back in at Sowerby Bridge and run direct trains to Huddersfield.

If platform capacity becomes an issue at Huddersfield, then I would look at the feasibility of re-instating at least part of the Clayton West branch to Skelmanthorpe. Since its single line I don't think sharing the old trackbed with the 15inch Kirklees Light Railway is going to be much of a problem.

Then at least stations at Berry Brow, Honley, Brockholes, Shepley could also benefit from an improved train service.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If NPR does go via Huddersfield, then the existing Leeds - Bradford - Halifax - Huddersfield services becomes to a degree redundant. If this does indeed happen I think it might be an idea to put the bay back in at Sowerby Bridge and run direct trains to Huddersfield.

If platform capacity becomes an issue at Huddersfield, then I would look at the feasibility of re-instating at least part of the Clayton West branch to Skelmanthorpe. Since its single line I don't think sharing the old trackbed with the 15inch Kirklees Light Railway is going to be much of a problem.

Then at least stations at Berry Brow, Honley, Brockholes, Shepley could also benefit from an improved train service.

The Clayton West branch was a basket case, which only kept a passenger service as long as it did by a combination of peculiar factors (the line stayed for coal, the stations were already there, and until the mid 1970s all secondary school children from the HD8 area had to study in Honley, which wasn't an easy journey by bus). To get to Skelmanthorpe, you need to go through Shelley Woodhouse tunnel, which might not be able to accommodate both NR and the KLR. If any significant money was to be spent on the Penistone line, adding an extra loop between Huddersfield and Stocksmoor is more realistic, and would be needed for your suggestion anyway. A turnback at Clayton West Junction would be more sensible if using the line to avoid terminating at Huddersfield. There's then also the issue of only being able to use P4 when heading back towards Brighouse.

One of the main problems at Huddersfield isn't lack of platforms per sé, more that one of the platforms is too short for the units we'll have in the future. The Transpennine route upgrade will likely see the East end of Huddersfield station remodelled, which opens up the possibility of extending the bays.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Would it fit in between Stalybridge and Huddersfield or have to be non-stop?

It'd have to be non-stop or skip-stop as long as there's the current obsession with a metro-style frequency between Leeds and Manchester. That is unless someone designs a DMU that goes like fertiliser off an excavator, yet brakes like a tram!

 

[53703]

Would it fit in between Stalybridge and Huddersfield or have to be non-stop?

Could possibly fit if TPE became non-stop between the 2, don't Northern operate some extra peak time stoppers between Manchester Pic and Huddersfield?

 

[bluenoxid]

Would removing one or both of the bay platforms and putting a new platform on the carriage sidings next to platform 8 be more helpful.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I forgot the KLR runs all the way up to Clayton West junction. Ooops never mind I wonder how they would feel about an upgrade?

to avoid terminating at Huddersfield.

Those were exactly my thoughts, although I know platform capacity isn't currently much of an issue at Huddersfield. It may be in the future with the potential reopening of the Pickle Bridge Line and rebuilt stations at Baliffe Bridge & Brighouse, with electrics now to Huddersfield no-doubt the PBL will be electrified as-well. Once NPR or rather Bradford Crossrail is achieved Northern may wish to extend their services that terminate at Bradford FS beyond to possibly Huddersfield, that way Bradford & Huddersfield are better connected with services serving the stations in between.

This is a bit of a concern as I would like to see a service to Huddersfield starting from Sowerby Bridge, but also one from Halifax (subject to infrastructure) to Huddersfield via Bailiffe Bridge, possibly this could start from a new station at Greetland that itself could have a Halifax facing bay platform.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

We seem to be getting into "Speculative Ideas" territory here... as much as I'd love to see some of West Yorkshire's lost railways return, the ones you're suggesting would be both prohibitively expensive to do, and wouldn't wash their face financially in a million years.

Bradford Crossrail is never going to happen as classic heavy rail, there was no case for it even before Broadway was built. It was just something that would've made maps look neater and avoided reversals at Exchange/Interchange: reversals that haven't been a problem for over 50 years as Calder Valley services have been almost all units for that long.

 

[superkev]

Some sad pictures of Hebden Bridge box last rites at
https://www.craigshaw.photography/hbrailsignalbox?fpciidx=42
K

 

[Halifaxlad]

Some sad pictures of Hebden Bridge box last rites at
https://www.craigshaw.photography/hbrailsignalbox?fpciidx=42
K

Nice photo's, thanks for the link I wonder if Halifax ended with anything special?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Nice photo's, thanks for the link I wonder if Halifax ended with anything special?

There's a thread discussing the closures, I'd link to it but it's tricky on mobile sorry.