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Caledonian Sleeper Class 92's

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Far north 37

Far north 37

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TimboM said:
92028 back in "proper" action today on the cars. Worked 0L48 light engine from Crewe to Garston just after lunch, then hauled the (almost) empty wagons to Dagenham on 6L48 later in the afternoon/evening, with 66702 DIT.

Short video featuring both workings here if anyone's interested...
Click to expand...

seen it at crewe on saturday coupled up to 92043
 
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Far north 37

Far north 37

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TimboM said:
Good you saw 043 before it went back to Brush on Sunday. Hopefully 028 will stay out and about for a bit now.
Click to expand...
yeah was glad to see it finally and obviously quite lucky too catch it then and got 010 on the sleeper on friday so good weekend on the 92 front first ever sleeper that wasnt a 90 must go try catch 028 on the cars this week
 
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cj_1985

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I know it's not strictly on topic... but has anyone heard anything about the 92 DB were selling in Romania?
 
TimboM

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cj_1985 said:
I know it's not strictly on topic... but has anyone heard anything about the 92 DB were selling in Romania?
Click to expand...

Nope...

But for those who hadn't seen elsewhere - one of the remaining six DB 92s operational in the UK - 016 - has just been stored indefinitely with a cracked transformer (pretty terminal I understand). Not aware of any plans to replace it so they're just down to five now for the tunnel/HS1 (011/015/019/036/042).

Wonder if DB UK might want the Romanian one back, although suspect it's no use for anything other than spares - and they have plenty like that out the back of Crewe Electric.
 
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cj_1985

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Sad state of affairs to say the least.


It does make you wonder about the logic of decisions made by DB about their fleet management/operations on a local/national or even international level
 
TimboM

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cj_1985 said:
Sad state of affairs to say the least.


It does make you wonder about the logic of decisions made by DB about their fleet management/operations on a local/national or even international level
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Couldn't disagree.

Problem is for DB that due to whatever past decisions were made, it'd now be prohibitively expensive to sort their 92s out and they seem to be on a slippery downward slope.

I suspect it's cheaper for them to make do with the 5 (and they've been down to 4/5 in service a lot recently) and spot-hire a GB one every now and again when needed. (Although in the interests of balance, GB have also been spot-hiring DB ones recently...!)
 
TimboM

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Photo (not mine) of 92006 at Brush a couple of weeks ago (17th Sept) - doesn't look like it's moved or had a lot done to it (externally/visibly at least) since the photos of it back in July (again not mine).
 
BRX

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018 off down to the tunnel this afternoon.
 
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Drumtochty

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When the new sleeper rolling stock is being used on all sections of the route how many 92's will be required and how many do GDRF have at the moment also how many 73's will be required and how many units do they have at the moment.

If a 16 coach rake have a loco failure south of Glasgow / Edinburgh, what other locos can couple and ETH the coaches. Also north of the Scottish Central Belt what other locos can connect and ETF the coaches to Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William.

I get the feeling that it could all end in tears due to present reliability of the present locos or is this not the case.
 
TimboM

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Roast Veg said:
Any reason why the 66 still had its engine running?
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I'm guessing because once the locos had moved the 400-odd yards into the Holding Sidings the 66 would have been detached and moved off somewhere (Basford Hall possibly) awaiting it's next duty. This also leaves 92043 without a 66 blocking it in when it needs to get out (hopefully tomorrow).
 
43096

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Drumtochty said:
When the new sleeper rolling stock is being used on all sections of the route how many 92's will be required and how many do GDRF have at the moment also how many 73's will be required and how many units do they have at the moment.

If a 16 coach rake have a loco failure south of Glasgow / Edinburgh, what other locos can couple and ETH the coaches. Also north of the Scottish Central Belt what other locos can connect and ETF the coaches to Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William.

I get the feeling that it could all end in tears due to present reliability of the present locos or is this not the case.
Click to expand...
5 Class 92s required per night: one each for 1M11, 1M16, 1S25 and 1S26 and one for the Edinburgh-Carstairs portion. Two ECS locos also needed at Wembley and Polmadie, but these could be other locos if modified with the new couplers. GBRf will ultimately have a pool of 14 92s to resource this.

For the 73s, 4 required each night from a pool of 6 to work the Aberdeen and Fort Bill trains, plus a pair for the Inverness.
 
TimboM

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Drumtochty said:
When the new sleeper rolling stock is being used on all sections of the route how many 92's will be required and how many do GDRF have at the moment also how many 73's will be required and how many units do they have at the moment.

If a 16 coach rake have a loco failure south of Glasgow / Edinburgh, what other locos can couple and ETH the coaches. Also north of the Scottish Central Belt what other locos can connect and ETF the coaches to Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William.

I get the feeling that it could all end in tears due to present reliability of the present locos or is this not the case.
Click to expand...

I think you're about 9 months late with the worries about 92 reliability. They're not perfect - they never will be, nor will any loco - but they're much better these days. Caledonian Sleeper has consistently scored top/high up in the punctuality "charts" in recent months, and that's not been achieved with locos that breakdown halfway.

The 73/9s are having a bad couple of weeks - but largely due to the ill-fortune that whilst 3 were in Brush (2 to receive Dellners plus one having collision damage repaired), another one got wheel-flats and another developed an engine issue. This bad spell aside the 73/9s have been on the whole pretty reliable since early issues.

Also worth noting that as well as the Sleeper being high profile (the Sleeper thread has >5,000 posts for example!) and any issue being blown out of proportion, often issues are readily blamed on the locos when there's more to it. The 73 was roundly blamed for the adhesion issues the other day when the Fort Bill ground to a halt and was cancelled, however the railhead conditions were apparently appalling and any loco would've struggled.

The locos rarely fail mid-journey (particularly the electrics) - it's usually when they're being prepped either end issues are found and they're swapped out - often without passengers even noticing. There's only been one loco failure "mid-journey" I can think of in recent months which was 92014 a few weeks back with a broken windscreen wiper of all things.

In the rare event a train fails mid-journey the same as happens now will happen - the good folk in GBRf control along with colleagues in other companies and Network Rail will work out the best way of resolving a situation. If there's a handy 92 at Crewe, say, they may use that. But equally could be a 66 or 57/3 Thunderbird. The locos will still have 'traditional' couplings as well as the Dellners, so at the least can be hooked up and dragged somewhere (e.g. nearest station) if needed.

Whilst admittedly there are a few more options with the old stock, the idea that there's a handy replacement loco just round the corner isn't the case these days anyway. e.g. when 92014 had its issue the other week and sat down at MK, the nearest/best option was a 90 from Crewe...!

43096 said:
5 Class 92s required per night: one each for 1M11, 1M16, 1S25 and 1S26 and one for the Edinburgh-Carstairs portion. Two ECS locos also needed at Wembley and Polmadie, but these could be other locos if modified with the new couplers. GBRf will ultimately have a pool of 14 92s to resource this.

For the 73s, 4 required each night from a pool of 6 to work the Aberdeen and Fort Bill trains, plus a pair for the Inverness.
Click to expand...

12x 92s definitely including 006/020 which will probably not back until early next year (although this will be before the new stock). The other 2 are in the 'planned' category still I believe.

The nominal allocation (excluding ECS locos as you mention) is 6 being the 5 required each night and one to cover exams/repairs (hence 6 in the livery). However, some/all of the others should be able to step-in if required (subject to how many will receive the "CAF modifications" including Dellner couplers). Either way, there will be enough... :)

One of the "spare" 73/9s could also feasibly work the Glasgow/Polmadie ECS, or the Edinburgh-Carstairs portion for that matter - so added options there.
 
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TimboM

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Drumtochty

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Therefore can you guys confirm that if one of the new CAF rakes have an issue with a 92 or a 73 loco sitting down no matter how unusual that is, that there is not an issue with any other loco physically coupling to these new CAF carriages.
 
TimboM

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Drumtochty said:
Therefore can you guys confirm that if one of the new CAF rakes have an issue with a 92 or a 73 loco sitting down no matter how unusual that is, that there is not an issue with any other loco physically coupling to these new CAF carriages.
Click to expand...

The new stock has Dellner only - a random other loco cannot attach to them, unless they have Dellners. I'm no expert on compatibility, but that may include the Thunderbird 57s stationed along the WCML or the ROG 37s..? There's also "adaptors" that can be fitted to 66s I think. Such locos couldn't provide ETS, however, as it's a difference set up to the "classic" supply on existing stock...

The point is, though, that the Sleeper locos themselves retain the "classic" draw-hook couplings as well as Dellners, so if there was such a situation where the train needed dragging - and no other 92s/73s were available - you'd simply leave the failed loco on and could attach any 'rescue' loco (e.g. 66) on top of the 92/73 and drag that way. Bearing in mind something coupling direct to the coaches still couldn't provide ETS and complete the journey, it'd make no real difference if the rescue loco was put on top of the whole train rather than just the stock. That said, the batteries on the new stock will last much longer, so I think the train could be moved a fair way before the lights went off.

As I said before, there are clearly a few less options than now to rescue AND complete the journey, however even the options now with the old stock are limited, so it's probably not going to put the passengers in any worse position than now if the loco breaks down in the middle of nowhere on the West Highland Line - it'll still probably be either another 73/9 scrambled to rescue the train, which would be compatible - but take an age to get there, or a nearby(ish!) 66 to drag the whole train to the nearest station/loop without any train heat, which is the same situation as it is today.
 
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FWIW 92028 has been a regular for the last week or so at the Land Rover distribution yard at Speke, shunting a train of car carriers.
Not sure if its actually bringing the train it, or just acting as a shunter to get it off the main line once it arrives. No time to stop and watch...
 
433N

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Mag_seven said:
Today 92033 ran from Edinburgh to Berwick (Tweedmouth) and back on some sort of test run:

Out as 0Z92 and back as 0Z93

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O33588/2017/10/09/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O33653/2017/10/09/advanced

I managed a grab shot of it from a passing train while she sat in Tweedmouth sidings:
Click to expand...

TimboM said:
Interesting stuff and great capture of what must've been a bit of a surprise sighting. Wonder what it was up to...?
Click to expand...

92010 ran these today ... although much delayed for the return. Managed to catch 92014 running the Waverley - Polmadie CS stock too.

It was a good day .... until I started trying to do quotes on this board :(
 
TimboM

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randyrippley said:
FWIW 92028 has been a regular for the last week or so at the Land Rover distribution yard at Speke, shunting a train of car carriers.
Not sure if its actually bringing the train it, or just acting as a shunter to get it off the main line once it arrives. No time to stop and watch...
Click to expand...

92028 is currently working the 6X41/6L48 Ford car flow between Dagenham Dock and Garston Car Terminal. Arrives c. 7.30am at Speke Jnc/Garston with the loaded train from Dagenham (6X41), assists with shunting the cartics (STVAs) around, prior to taking an empty set of car wagons back to Dagenham departing Garston/Speke c.4-4.30pm (6L48). Arrives at Dagenham about 11pm, hooks up to another loaded train just after midnight and heads back...

Has being doing this particular stint on the cars for a week now - unless something crops up, will probably stay on them for a bit.

Video of 028 on the cars I did last week (Tues) - 6X41 loaded train early in the morning / 6L48 in the afternoon (and just to be confusing in the middle of the 028 sandwich is 66720 on the additional 6X43 working that runs occasionally Tuesdays-only if required by Ford):
 
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