Caledonian Sleeper Class 92's

[leomartin125]

Thanks very much for shedding light on that. Suspect it was 033 as 3 and 8 look very similar and didn't get a clear view of it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Although there's a YouTube clip of 92023 behind at 66 going through Crewe Basford Hall on Tuesday (15th) - so could've been either maybe? https://youtu.be/Gcw-VqRzHYU

Has 023 been "fixed" too? Wasn't aware it'd been in, but they were *supposed* to be sorting them all by the end of the year.

I do believe it's very slow progress at Brush, and that as of yet only 92014 and 92033 have been modded to work the sleeper. I always thought the unreliability lied with the traction motors on these 92's, so presumed that was what they had been fixing at Brush to make them more reliable...

 

[TimboM]

I do believe it's very slow progress at Brush, and that as of yet only 92014 and 92033 have been modded to work the sleeper. I always thought the unreliability lied with the traction motors on these 92's, so presumed that was what they had been fixing at Brush to make them more reliable...

I thought it was more to do with sensitive electronics (designed for channel tunnel) getting screwed by the ancient OHLE on the WCML and/or train heating issues. But probably all of the above..!

Hope they get them sorted as they are my personal favourites

 

[childwallblues]

92014 is again on the Dagenham to Garston cars this morning.

 

[TimboM]

Does anyone know please which of the CS Class 92s is currently sitting in the sidings South of Crewe station (4 Jan, 2pm)?

Incidentally GBRf 66722 was in the same place earlier (but not the 92).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Found the answer to my own Q - 92023. Had been working the
Dagenham - Garston cars.

 

[childwallblues]

Does anyone know please which of the CS Class 92s is currently sitting in the sidings South of Crewe station (4 Jan, 2pm)?

Incidentally GBRf 66722 was in the same place earlier (but not the 92).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Found the answer to my own Q - 92023. Had been working the
Dagenham - Garston cars.

Which 66722 is now on.

 

[leomartin125]

Which 66722 is now on.

I do believe 92032 is the 92 that should operate Garston to Dagenham as it's GBRf's earmarked electric freight loco, but that is currently at Willesden T.M.D. and has been for a while, so must be having it's B or C exam.

 

[43096]

I do believe 92032 is the 92 that should operate Garston to Dagenham as it's GBRf's earmarked electric freight loco, but that is currently at Willesden T.M.D. and has been for a while, so must be having it's B or C exam.

"Earmarked electric freight loco"? Are you just making this stuff up?

And 92032 isn't at WN. It worked the first GBRf operated 6S94 and was at Carlisle awaiting the return working.

 

[59CosG95]

I do believe 92032 is the 92 that should operate Garston to Dagenham as it's GBRf's earmarked electric freight loco, but that is currently at Willesden T.M.D. and has been for a while, so must be having it's B or C exam.

Don't think so, GBRf have just taken over the Dollands Moor-Irvine China Clay tanks (6S94) from DB, and used 032 for the inaugural run up the WCML to Carlisle (where a swap to a 66 would occur) yesterday. http://www.milepost39.co.uk/mp39.asp?do=image&picid=2645

Back to the topic of Brush and 92s; I wonder when 028's going to reappear?

 

[cjmillsnun]

I thought it was more to do with sensitive electronics (designed for channel tunnel) getting screwed by the ancient OHLE on the WCML and/or train heating issues. But probably all of the above..!

Hope they get them sorted as they are my personal favourites

 

[leomartin125]

Don't think so, GBRf have just taken over the Dollands Moor-Irvine China Clay tanks (6S94) from DB, and used 032 for the inaugural run up the WCML to Carlisle (where a swap to a 66 would occur) yesterday. http://www.milepost39.co.uk/mp39.asp?do=image&picid=2645

Back to the topic of Brush and 92s; I wonder when 028's going to reappear?

At the time, I thought it was at Willesden T.M.D. as the TOPS history for the loco stated it had been there over Christmas. It does look good operating 6S94, and thanks for the updated information on it's movements.

92028 has been at Brush for a while now, so I would expect it to be completed soon (ish). I know though never to expect much from Brush up in Loughborough. Most 92's that end up there never return.

 

[Mordac]

At the time, I thought it was at Willesden T.M.D. as the TOPS history for the loco stated it had been there over Christmas. It does look good operating 6S94, and thanks for the updated information on it's movements.

92028 has been at Brush for a while now, so I would expect it to be completed soon (ish). I know though never to expect much from Brush up in Loughborough. Most 92's that end up there never return.

So a bit like the Hotel California of locos?!

 

[43096]

92028 has been at Brush for a while now, so I would expect it to be completed soon (ish). I know though never to expect much from Brush up in Loughborough. Most 92's that end up there never return.

Has it ever crossed your mind that what goes in and comes out of Brush is the customer's decision (GBRf in this case) and not Brush's?

 

[CosherB]

Has it ever crossed your mind that what goes in and comes out of Brush is the customer's decision (GBRf in this case) and not Brush's?

Plus I'd imagine that Brush have their hands full at the moment with CS 92s going back for modifications and CS 73/9s going back for modifications.

 

[59CosG95]

Plus I'd imagine that Brush have their hands full at the moment with CS 92s going back for modifications and CS 73/9s going back for modifications.

The fact that 73969's cab's a little the worse for wear certainly isn't helping matters either.

 

[TimboM]

Ancient OHLE? Wasn't it upgraded as part of the West Coast Route Modernisation. I'm pretty sure that whilst the gantries and posts are old, the actual OHLE system is newer than that in the tunnel.

My description may have been misleading - maybe not the wires themselves that are/were the issue. Someone will know the exact detail, but I believe there were issues in the Acton Bridge/Weaver Junction area where the power is 27kv not 25kv due to some over zealous substation or something like that - and this kept tripping the 92s.

 

[dubscottie]

My description may have been misleading - maybe not the wires themselves that are/were the issue. Someone will know the exact detail, but I believe there were issues in the Acton Bridge/Weaver Junction area where the power is 27kv not 25kv due to some over zealous substation or something like that - and this kept tripping the 92s.

I am sure someone said it was a problem that only happens at night.

I think they said there is a big industrial concern nearby that sucks vast amounts of power from the grid during the day.

At nights, when they shut down, that power ends up in the OHLE and messes with the 92's on the sleepers. Or something similar!

 

[fgwrich]

I am sure someone said it was a problem that only happens at night.

I think they said there is a big industrial concern nearby that sucks vast amounts of power from the grid during the day.

At nights, when they shut down, that power ends up in the OHLE and messes with the 92's on the sleepers. Or something similar!

Warrington is right next door to the large Unilever site, which itself is a large power / water draw from the area.

The issues surrounding the 92s is one of the electrical supply issues, which is causing havoc with the complex 1990s electricals and computer systems. It hasn't helped that they were designed to run off 3 voltages, a feature many of the class have never really done but was almost over specified / engineered in the first place.

 

[43096]

Warrington is right next door to the large Unilever site, which itself is a large power / water draw from the area.



The issues surrounding the 92s is one of the electrical supply issues, which is causing havoc with the complex 1990s electricals and computer systems. It hasn't helped that they were designed to run off 3 voltages, a feature many of the class have never really done but was almost over specified / engineered in the first place.

3 voltages????

 

[leomartin125]

3 voltages????

I guess he means: HS1 OLE, Network Rail BR OLE and Network Rail BR 3rd Rail.

 

[jopsuk]

3 voltages????

Possibly confused with the (quad voltage) Eurostars (Class 373)? The 92s weren't designed to run on "classic" lines on the other end of the tunnel, so no overhead DC

 

[cjmillsnun]

I guess he means: HS1 OLE, Network Rail BR OLE and Network Rail BR 3rd Rail.

But HS1/LGV/Eurotunnel OLE and BR OLE are all 25kV AC at 50hz. The difference between them is to do with the tension and the height (high speed lines have higher tensioned cables and Eurotunnel OLE is taller than high speed and BR)

The idea of a load coming off grid and causing a power surge in the OLE is plausible. I have encountered similar with some of the systems I work with. It can affect both old and new transformers meaning the age of the OLE and equipment is irrelevant.

 

[TimboM]

The idea of a load coming off grid and causing a power surge in the OLE is plausible. I have encountered similar with some of the systems I work with. It can affect both old and new transformers meaning the age of the OLE and equipment is irrelevant.

I agree it's certainly plausible, but you'd think a surge would be a temporary spike until the National Grid reduced the supply (if indeed the factories etc do shut down at night)? Also there must be plenty of other main lines with OHLE near electrically-hungry industrial plants etc which don't have this issue?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the NR "sub-station" in the area for whatever reason actually puts out 27kv not 25kv. My (probably incorrect!) theory for this is that the Crewe-Liverpool/Warrington stretch has heavy traffic and so the power given out is higher to cope with the load during the day and ensure c.25kv is reaching the trains, but when it's quieter at night the PD (voltage) increases as less trains (e.g. Pendolinos) drawing power.

Also, I'm pretty sure there used to be a fair few 92s on WCML freight, without any apparent issues in this area, but DBS as well as Gbrf have had problems in the last couple of years in this area, so has something changed? Or just got less coverage previously?

 

[Far north 37]

I agree it's certainly plausible, but you'd think a surge would be a temporary spike until the National Grid reduced the supply (if indeed the factories etc do shut down at night)? Also there must be plenty of other main lines with OHLE near electrically-hungry industrial plants etc which don't have this issue?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the NR "sub-station" in the area for whatever reason actually puts out 27kv not 25kv. My (probably incorrect!) theory for this is that the Crewe-Liverpool/Warrington stretch has heavy traffic and so the power given out is higher to cope with the load during the day and ensure c.25kv is reaching the trains, but when it's quieter at night the PD (voltage) increases as less trains (e.g. Pendolinos) drawing power.

Also, I'm pretty sure there used to be a fair few 92s on WCML freight, without any apparent issues in this area, but DBS as well as Gbrf have had problems in the last couple of years in this area, so has something changed? Or just got less coverage previously?

I'd imagine with the class 92 on freights they wouldn't be requiring ets so the problem didn't really go noticed till they started working passenger trains

 

[thetangoman]

So what exactly is wrong with the Class 73's

I saw the Fort William Sleeper this morning being hauled by a Class 66 with a Class 73 idling on the rear.

Is there still reliabily problems after all this time!!!!!

 

[59CosG95]

So what exactly is wrong with the Class 73's

I saw the Fort William Sleeper this morning being hauled by a Class 66 with a Class 73 idling on the rear.

Is there still reliabily problems after all this time!!!!!

They've had a few issues with ETH and powering at the same time. So, until the issues are fixed across the class, 66s and 73s in multi (with the 73s doing ETH + some power), will be the mainstay of CS traction. 73969 needs attention at works too after a damaged cab.

 

[43096]

So what exactly is wrong with the Class 73's



I saw the Fort William Sleeper this morning being hauled by a Class 66 with a Class 73 idling on the rear.



Is there still reliabily problems after all this time!!!!!

Covered elsewhere, but there is an issue with vibration on the alternators that needs a return to Brush to fix. 73968 is back, fixed, and it looks like 73969/970 are heading back to Loughborough currently (969 also needs collision damage repair).

 

[59CosG95]

Covered elsewhere, but there is an issue with vibration on the alternators that needs a return to Brush to fix. 73968 is back, fixed, and it looks like 73969/970 are heading back to Loughborough currently (969 also needs collision damage repair).

Ah thanks 43096 for correcting me on that score.

 

[TimboM]

Seems like (I believe unmodified) 92010 hauled the Down Lowland sleeper from Euston last night with a Freightliner skoda in it's rightful place tagged on the back of the train.

 

[CosherB]

Seems like (I believe unmodified) 92010 hauled the Down Lowland sleeper from Euston last night with a Freightliner skoda in it's rightful place tagged on the back of the train.

92014 is the only modified 92 with the CS fleet, usually working with three FL Skodas at the moment.

Not sure why you think a 90 belongs on the back of the train?

 

[59CosG95]

92014 is the only modified 92 with the CS fleet, usually working with three FL Skodas at the moment.

Not sure why you think a 90 belongs on the back of the train?

I think he thinks it isn't proper for a Freightliner 90 to be leading a train for which GBRf has the haulage contract :roll: