Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Scotrail84]

Yep, that'll teach me to quote properly, @Scotrail84 got his post in as I was doing mine

No probs, not aimed you or anyone in particular but there seems to be a lot of slating of the sleeper due to the cancellation of the Highlander, if everyone knew the facts they would understand fully why the decision was made, I'm in a position to know why the service was cancelled but I'm not in a position to post every reason why this decision was made.

Take it from me, it is the correct decision.

 

[gcmozart]

We were booked on 1S25 tonight and got offered nothing whatsoever. We were told to make our own arrangements.

Appalling customer service.

Appalling indeed, do they have no responsibility/duty to help customers?

 

[leightonbd]

Praise where due: great ride North behind 92043 last night. Just a little late boarding (about 22.25), no doubt a legacy of the previous night’s difficulties. As it turned out that was no inconvenience as the event I was attending went on far longer than expected.

I value the ability to board earlier than used to be the case - I think it used to be that you could only board one hour before departing but being able to board from 2200 makes a lot of sense.

Would one of you be so kind as to tell me what brought the EDB portion in - I forgot to look!

 

[TimboM]

Praise where due: great ride North behind 92043 last night. Just a little late boarding (about 22.25), no doubt a legacy of the previous night’s difficulties. As it turned out that was no inconvenience as the event I was attending went on far longer than expected.

I value the ability to board earlier than used to be the case - I think it used to be that you could only board one hour before departing but being able to board from 2200 makes a lot of sense.

Would one of you be so kind as to tell me what brought the EDB portion in - I forgot to look!

90042 was on Edinburgh portion last night.

92043 was flying last night - 47 Early into Preston before the crew change there.

 

[Scotrail84]

90042 was on Edinburgh portion last night.

92043 was flying last night - 47 Early into Preston before the crew change there.

Aye, theres a lot of slack in the times Northbound though.

 

[TimboM]

Aye, theres a lot of slack in the times Northbound though.

There must be...!

92043 was also "very smooth" too I see. I saw it leave Euston and it was definitely a 92 and not a Skoda...

 

[AY1975]

We were booked on 1S25 tonight and got offered nothing whatsoever. We were told to make our own arrangements.

Appalling customer service.

According to the CS website, passengers booked on the cancelled trains should receive an automatic refund if they booked directly via CS's own website, and if they booked their tickets via a third party, they should fill in the online delay repay form available via the said website. So CS ought at the very least to honour that promise.

If you read the small print, it also says in the CS Guest Charter on their website that if you are unable to travel due to the fault of the railway, they will give you a full refund and provide alternative transport and accommodation.

However, I suppose CS would say that adverse weather is outside their control, unlike train or infrastructure failures. Also, depending on where you were travelling from, it might not have been easy for them to find you a hotel.

If you are not happy with the way CS dealt with the situation, and you want to take the matter further, it might be worth raising it with Transport Focus (see www.transportfocus.org.uk).

Where were you intending to travel to and from, and what did you do in the end?

 

[cambsy]

92’s can only do about 86-87mph, so any early running is just fast line running and clear run, there’s a lot of slack for engineering works needing slow line running, quite often the lowland south bound arrives Euston a good 30 mins early due to clear run etc.

 

[theironroad]

According to the CS website, passengers booked on the cancelled trains should receive an automatic refund if they booked directly via CS's own website, and if they booked their tickets via a third party, they should fill in the online delay repay form available via the said website. So CS ought at the very least to honour that promise.

If you read the small print, it also says in the CS Guest Charter on their website that if you are unable to travel due to the fault of the railway, they will give you a full refund and provide alternative transport and accommodation.

However, I suppose CS would say that adverse weather is outside their control, unlike train or infrastructure failures. Also, depending on where you were travelling from, it might not have been easy for them to find you a hotel.

If you are not happy with the way CS dealt with the situation, and you want to take the matter further, it might be worth raising it with Transport Focus (see www.transportfocus.org.uk).

Where were you intending to travel to and from, and what did you do in the end?

Telling someone at the last minute that you're on your own in rearranging your travel plans is the issue.

Many of the people using the sleeper are tourists who have booked months in advance (a little less in winter,granted) and may not the alternatives available.

Serco seem to be adopting the attitude that, well we'll refund our contractual obligation but not actually help with the reason you booked on the sleeper train, namely to get from point a to point b in a time efficient manner.

Sleeper trains throughout Europe have been cut back as they are financially unsustainable in the age of low cost airlines, so going the extra,extra mile in customer service is one of the few reasons they can still exist even with government subsidy.

Not a great advert or trip advisor review for the serco cal sleeper tonight.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. They should have had staff called in to assist with arranging hotel bookings and alternative train tickets, even if the passengers weren't entitled to payment for them.

 

[TimboM]

Indeed. They should have had staff called in to assist with arranging hotel bookings and alternative train tickets, even if the passengers weren't entitled to payment for them.

Where would these extra staff be sourced from in Inverness (I presume) at very short notice?

And how many would you need to ensure not only every passenger on the train had been informed it was cancelled but also had assistance with their individual alternative travel (rail, road and/or air), hotels etc. in the space of an afternoon?

Genuinely interested how people think this could be achieved in practice in the space of a few hours with limited/no notice?

 

[cf111]

We were booked on 1S25 tonight and got offered nothing whatsoever. We were told to make our own arrangements.

Appalling customer service.

If you haven't already, I would write to Serco and gently remind them of section 28.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel along with the bill for any hotel rooms you had to pay for:

If disruption prevents you from completing the journey shown on your Ticket,
any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with
alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary provide
overnight accommodation for you

The service has gone to pot due to the weather, that is unfortunate, but it doesn't mean that they can ignore the responsibilities they have towards you. There is nothing in the NRCoT changing your right to overnight accommodation if need be if even if the cause of the disruption is outwith the railway's control, as far as I understand it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where would these extra staff be sourced from in Inverness (I presume) at very short notice?

And how many would you need to ensure not only every passenger on the train had been informed it was cancelled but also had assistance with their individual alternative travel (rail, road and/or air), hotels etc. in the space of an afternoon?

Genuinely interested how people think this could be achieved in practice in the space of a few hours with limited/no notice?

It’s called “on call”. Many may have been in the call centre, but there could have been cards given out by the traincrew/station staff with details.

 

[Merseysider]

If you haven't already, I would write to Serco and gently remind them of section 28.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel along with the bill for any hotel rooms you had to pay for:

If disruption prevents you from completing the journey shown on your Ticket,
any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with
alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary provide
overnight accommodation for you

The service has gone to pot due to the weather, that is unfortunate, but it doesn't mean that they can ignore the responsibilities they have towards you. There is nothing in the NRCoT changing your right to overnight accomdation if need be if even if the cause of the disruption is outwith the railway's control, as far as I understand it.

An excellent point.

 

[JonathanH]

92’s can only do about 86-87mph, so any early running is just fast line running and clear run, there’s a lot of slack for engineering works needing slow line running, quite often the lowland south bound arrives Euston a good 30 mins early due to clear run etc.

The southbound lowland arrives upward of 30 minutes early against the published timetable, regardless of traction if it is routed via Weedon. The 0707 time assumes a run via Northampton and that it will follow 1Y76 from there onwards.

 

[TimboM]

It’s called “on call”. Many may have been in the call centre, but there could have been cards given out by the traincrew/station staff with details.

Who would be on "on call" - the rest of the staff who'd been up all night and probably worked into the morning dealing with 3 of the 4 services the previous night being severely disrupted by the WCML issues...? I suspect if they weren't still there on their 28th mug of coffee they were fast asleep in bed prior to working the next night shift.
Also, giving out cards at the station would be a bit late in the day as would mean customers wouldn't have received the info in the afternoon that 1S25 was cancelled and would have been turning up at Euston in the evening still expecting the train to run..?
I may be wrong, but I don't think Caley Sleeper has a vast call centre with loads of staff available 'on call' or otherwise - they operate 4 trains (in effect) a day/night; not 100s like someone such as VTWC.

 

[theironroad]

If someone turns up for a booked overnight sleeper train somewhere between 2100 & 2345 and reach the station to be told that 'hey, sorry your train is cancelled, bye..' then full arrangements should have been made to accommodate those passengers overnight or get them to their destination overnight. You can't just abandon passengers late at night we expect them to go away quietly.

 

[Mathew S]

If someone turns up for a booked overnight sleeper train somewhere between 2100 & 2345 and reach the station to be told that 'hey, sorry your train is cancelled, bye..' then full arrangements should have been made to accommodate those passengers overnight or get them to their destination overnight. You can't just abandon passengers late at night we expect them to go away quietly.

Couldn't agree more. If I've booked and paid for a ticket, the company has a responsibility to either get me to my destination, or put me up in a hotel and then get me to my destination. The conditions of carriage as posted above could not be more clear on that. Whether the train is cancelled an hour, a day, or a week in advance, that responsibility doesn't change.

 

[47271]

D5645 hasn't been back to elaborate on what exactly was said when the train was cancelled.

I'm only too familiar with CS cancellations, and have been critical of their management in the past, but I'd be very surprised if passengers were simply turned out on the street with no alternatives. The poster may not have been happy with the alternatives offered, but that isn't quite the same thing.

Can D5645, or anyone else who was planning to travel that night, provide a bit more detail?

 

[MadCommuter]

I understand that CS contact all booked passengers in the event of cancellation and I don't think you can just turn up now, so the likelihood of people arriving for a cancelled service must be quite low.

 

[ScottDarg]

Caledonian Sleeper advising that tonight's services are expected to be unaffected by the weather in England:

Despite the adverse weather conditions in central and southern England, all Caledonian Sleeper services are expected to depart on schedule this evening.

https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/939837180775731200

 

[Dr Hoo]

D5645 hasn't been back to elaborate on what exactly was said when the train was cancelled.

I'm only too familiar with CS cancellations, and have been critical of their management in the past, but I'd be very surprised if passengers were simply turned out on the street with no alternatives. The poster may not have been happy with the alternatives offered, but that isn't quite the same thing.

Can D5645, or anyone else who was planning to travel that night, provide a bit more detail?

I got a lengthy text message at 1354 on Thursday advising that the northbound service to Aberdeen was cancelled. It advised on Delay Repay refund arrangements and included links to Guest Ambassador phone line, email address and website for more info. There was no explicit mention of alternative arrangements.

I was only popping up to visit a mate before Christmas so it wasn't a big deal to just scrub the trip.

It was a bit of a fiddle to do the Delay Repay form on line. It only went on the third try after two frustrating 'lock ups'.

Not brilliant but could have been a lot worse. Saved getting stranded in London late in the evening too late for last train back to origin.

 

[Caleb2010]

I must say that I’ve never had bad dealings with CS customer service, if ever there’s been a problem, cancelled journeys, facilities not working, diversions or missing coaches, they have always exceeded in customer interaction-and then conclusion!

For example, when a cable fire prevented services using Euston back in April, the managing director himself helped arrange alternatives for passengers-and travelled on board when the train eventually started from Watford Junction nearly 2 hours late.

On train it’s just as professional! Informative staff, dealing with problems usually thrown up by other elements! Flood, snow, ice, broken down freight trains, engineering works!

CS have always come up with alternative offers and ideas when able to! That’s the phrase though isn’t it ‘able to’!

I’m my experience-and i am a (fairly) regular user, IF something can be done it will be!

Falls way short with certain other operators doesn’t it!

 

[ScottDarg]

90016 leading 5S95 in to Euston, most likely leading 1S26 too.

GBRf-liveried 92 (92043?) coupled to the back of the rake for 1S25.

 

[pitdiver]

I was thinking of treating my wife to a trip on the Sleeper next year. I am not really fussed about going on the new stock but if we do does it mean after all that money is being spent on rolling stock all the faffing around at Waverley will no longer happen.
The reason I ask is that I have just watched a You Tube video of a nightjet service where the guy got an excellent nights sleep as there was no shunting etc.

 

[cf111]

I was thinking of treating my wife to a trip on the Sleeper next year. I am not really fussed about going on the new stock but if we do does it mean after all that money is being spent on rolling stock all the faffing around at Waverley will no longer happen.
The reason I ask is that I have just watched a You Tube video of a nightjet service where the guy got an excellent nights sleep as there was no shunting etc.

The Highlander will still split and join at Waverley as far as I know.

I sometimes rouse during the shunting but I find the biggest impact on getting a good night's sleep is where my berth is. If I'm in the middle of the coach I'm fine but if I'm over the bogies I find it very difficult to get to sleep and stay there.

 

[theironroad]

The Highlander will still split and join at Waverley as far as I know.

I sometimes rouse during the shunting but I find the biggest impact on getting a good night's sleep is where my berth is. If I'm in the middle of the coach I'm fine but if I'm over the bogies I find it very difficult to get to sleep and stay there.

Agree that is middle is better than ends, but my biggest problem is the shunting on the northbound services at stupid o clock. Southbound slightly better as at more reasonable hour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agree that is middle is better than ends, but my biggest problem is the shunting on the northbound services at stupid o clock. Southbound slightly better as at more reasonable hour.

The new stock should make this better as you don't have to bang Scharfenberg coupled coaches together quite so hard as there's no buffers to compress.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

90016 leading 5S95 in to Euston, most likely leading 1S26 too.

GBRf-liveried 92 (92043?) coupled to the back of the rake for 1S25.

Yes 043 on the country end. 87002 hauled in the Lowlander ECS. All calm on thr CS platforms compared to chaos everywhere else on the station.

 

[BRX]

I find that abrupt starts/stops, rather than shunting, are more likely to be disturbing during the night. I wonder if there is a decline in skills for driving loco hauled passenger trains, or whether this is inevitable with such a long train.