Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[jyte]

So the damage as it stands at 10.00 this morning:

Northbound:
1S25 worst affected with all three north of Edinburgh portions in the region of 4 hours late i.e. Lunchtime arrivals at destination.
1S26 terminated Glasgow 117L and Edinburgh 108L

Southbound:
1M11 worst affected arrived Euston 132L
1M16 arrived Euston 103L

Not a good night.

Did 1M11s and 1M16s late running have a knock on impact on services into Euston?

 

[Mag_seven]

Did 1M11s and 1M16s late running have a knock on impact on services into Euston?

I doubt it. 1M11 is booked to use P1 and 1M16 P15. If they overstay their welcome in these platforms I'm sure there are enough other platforms for other services to be accommodated.

 

[TimboM]

Did 1M11s and 1M16s late running have a knock on impact on services into Euston?

Not that I could tell.
Ordinarily if the Sleepers are (very) late they make way for the (on time) Virgin/West Midlands trains - not the other way round. Particularly if 1M16 is a little late (e.g. 20-30 mins) leaving Crewe it'll miss its path and quite often it will lose a lot more time as it gets put on the slows, has to wait for other trains/behind stoppers etc.
Platforms weren't rammed at Euston at the time they arrived either, so they were able to be accommodated in P1 (1M11) and P15 (1M16) - noting 1M16 was only 15 mins behind 1M11 in the end.

 

[TimboM]

So the damage as it stands at 10.00 this morning:

Northbound:
1S25 worst affected with all three north of Edinburgh portions in the region of 4 hours late i.e. Lunchtime arrivals at destination...
Not a good night.

Slight(!) silver lining for those not in a hurry is that they'll hopefully have got to enjoy some spectacular views that they'd otherwise have travelled through in the dark.

 

[BRX]

Good in that nothing got cancelled or stopped short though.

 

[InOban]

Slight(!) silver lining for those not in a hurry is that they'll hopefully have got to enjoy some spectacular views that they'd otherwise have travelled through in the dark.

Not sure. It's snowing, so they won't see much.

 

[MadCommuter]

Good in that nothing got cancelled or stopped short though.

Good that crews and stock are in the right place for tonight too.

 

[ScottDarg]

Inverness stock looks to be coming down to Polmadie for Hogmanay too:

5Z25 09:20 Inverness to Polmadie on 30/12/2017: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97204/2017/12/30/advanced

5Z25 booked to go via the City Union Line due to engineering works at Coatbridge, associated 0Z47 for the drag to Polmadie from Shields: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R01695/2017/12/30/advanced

5Z16 11:12 Polmadie to Inverness on 02/01/2018: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97157/2018/01/02/advanced

5Z16 booked via Coatbridge.

 

[BRX]

Good that crews and stock are in the right place for tonight too.

Yes - especially as I'm booked to travel to Fort William tonight!

I checked this morning's situation a little nervously when I got up....

 

[TimboM]

Yes - especially as I'm booked to travel to Fort William tonight!

I checked this morning's situation a little nervously when I got up....

They were very close to cancelling both Highlanders - in fact announced as such on Twitter then back-tracked 15 mins later (presumably after a further update on ETA for repairs from NR).
If they'd done that, it would've been similar to when a tree/wires were down at Lockerbie in mid-October and no hope of the line re-opening, so 92010 ran round 1S25 at Warrington and took its passengers back to Euston for the night and the 1M16 passengers were turfed off in the early hours at Waverley to allow the three portions to run back empty in the usual slots to the northern termini ready for the following day's service. Neither of those outcomes particularly palatable, which probably explains why (ultimately) they went with the decision of the big delays but at least getting passengers/trains to where they should be.

Hope you have a good trip - my bet for what it's worth is 92033 to EDB then 73971 to Fort Bill.

 

[BRX]

Hope you have a good trip - my bet for what it's worth is 92033 to EDB then 73971 to Fort Bill.

I'll let you know!

 

[ScottDarg]

Info re 1M16 tonight from CS Twitter feed:

Due to last night's disruption, tonight's Inverness to London Euston service will depart at the later time of 22:30. Boarding will commence at the normal time of 20:00. The lounge car on board will not be available until 22:45. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. 1/2

https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/946743896704503808

 

[Scotrail84]

Yes - especially as I'm booked to travel to Fort William tonight!

I checked this morning's situation a little nervously when I got up....

Service will run as normal afaik. Beds or seated coach?

 

[BRX]

Service will run as normal afaik. Beds or seated coach?

Beds.

CS Twitter says running as normal.

Hoping to wake up to snow on Rannoch moor.

 

[Scotrail84]

Beds.

CS Twitter says running as normal.

Hoping to wake up to snow on Rannoch moor.

Coach W or Y then? The whole train is sold out tonight, well there is no availability on the CS website for any Northbound service this evening.

 

[TimboM]

Beds.

CS Twitter says running as normal.

Hoping to wake up to snow on Rannoch moor.

c.95% sure it was 92 033 going in to Euston light engine on 0A25 a little while ago so prediction for that as your 1S25 loco to Edinburgh is looking good.

 

[Scotrail84]

c.95% sure it was 92 033 going in to Euston light engine on 0A25 a little while ago so prediction for that as your 1S25 loco to Edinburgh is looking good.

It will be as it worked it down last night, will probably sit at Waverley until Tuesday night for 1M16

 

[TimboM]

It will be as it worked it down last night, will probably sit at Waverley until Tuesday night for 1M16

Was the most likely suspect as you say having worked 1M16 last night, although with 92014/028/032/043 plus 90049 (and 87002) also all at Willesden/Wembley and available as far as I know there was a slight chance of a switch around.

My hunch is it'll go on 5B26 ECS move (T'n'T with the Carstairs loco) in the morning so it's at Polmadie over New Year (as was done with the 1S25 loco for the Xmas break) but we shall see...

 

[Iskra]

Info re 1M16 tonight from CS Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/946743896704503808

Can anyone explain the operational logic behind the re-timed departure? Is it to do with driver hours from the night before?

 

[ScottDarg]

Can anyone explain the operational logic behind the re-timed departure? Is it to do with driver hours from the night before?

I believe it's a combination of staff hours and the time needed to properly clean and prepare the stock for the next service.

Someone will probably correct if I'm wrong though.

 

[Scotrail84]

Can anyone explain the operational logic behind the re-timed departure? Is it to do with driver hours from the night before?

Crew rest period. They cant book on until at least 9 hours full rest as far as I know.

 

[Iskra]

Thanks guys

 

[TimboM]

Crew rest period. They cant book on until at least 9 hours full rest as far as I know.

I suspect your gen is accurate Last night's 1S25 arrived in Inverness at 13:05 (and the crew would've still been working for a period after that whilst passengers alighted) - so c.13:30 + 9 hours = 22:30, i.e. the revised departure time.

Interestingly boarding will still commence at 20:00 and presumably some staff will be required for this, so does that mean additional cover has been obtained from Inverness-based CS staff to do the boarding?

I'm also wondering why the Fort William service doesn't appear to be delayed departing too, even though last night's service was similarly late arriving and presumably it uses the same crew back to London tonight? 1Y11 arrived at 13:53, so assuming a 9 hour break it would not be able to depart until after 23:00... (not 19:50)??

(Aberdeen is OK as arrived 11:12 and due to leave 21:43, so >9 hours.)

 

[Mag_seven]

There does not appear to be a revised schedule in RTT for 1M16 so at this stage it looks as though they will run it 105 mins late on the existing schedule. Will be interesting to see how much of this gets made up en route.

 

[TimboM]

There does not appear to be a revised schedule in RTT for 1M16 so at this stage it looks as though they will run it 105 mins late on the existing schedule. Will be interesting to see how much of this gets made up en route.

Will be interesting if 90 042 which worked Carstairs last night gets swapped for the 92 at Waverley (018) for a spot of 100mph running up the WCML.
That said I suspect NR are footing the bill for the delay (as a direct knock-on of last night's OHLE issues) so CS/GBRf may stick to their original plans.

 

[BRX]

I suspect your gen is accurate Last night's 1S25 arrived in Inverness at 13:05 (and the crew would've still been working for a period after that whilst passengers alighted) - so c.13:30 + 9 hours = 22:30, i.e. the revised departure time.

Interestingly boarding will still commence at 20:00 and presumably some staff will be required for this, so does that mean additional cover has been obtained from Inverness-based CS staff to do the boarding?

I'm also wondering why the Fort William service doesn't appear to be delayed departing too, even though last night's service was similarly late arriving and presumably it uses the same crew back to London tonight? 1Y11 arrived at 13:53, so assuming a 9 hour break it would not be able to depart until after 23:00... (not 19:50)??

(Aberdeen is OK as arrived 11:12 and due to leave 21:43, so >9 hours.)

Fort william barely achieves a 9 hr break on the normal timetable. But I think maybe staffing on that branch goes out and back in one night (along with lounge car and seated coach)?

 

[TimboM]

Fort william barely achieves a 9 hr break on the normal timetable. But I think maybe staffing on that branch goes out and back in one night (along with lounge car and seated coach)?

That would certainly explain it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Looks like 92043 on 5S95 for 1S26 later.

 

[GW43125]

Does anyone know what locos were on 1M11 and 1M16 last night/this morning please?

 

[TimboM]

Does anyone know what locos were on 1M11 and 1M16 last night/this morning please?

1M11 - 92043
1M16 - 92033

(both are working the reverse services tonight - i.e. 1S25 = 92033 / 1S26 = 92043)