• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Caledonian Sleeper discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Requeststop

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2012
Messages
944
Location
Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea
A delayed entry into this discussion: I travelled on the CS from Inverness to Euston Sunday evening diverting via Aberdeen. Had a meal on in the dining car and found that the beef bourginon was again off the menu - why - they are changing the menu again. Not a matter of deep importance but of lack of organisation. I enjoyed the venison replacement. In fact I was well away to sleep before Dundee and for once I was not kept awake by whining ghostly noises when under wires and had a great night until woken by the steward with my breakfast (way too early) just before Rugby. Having also travelled the Night Riviera recently, I have to say that the refurbished rooms on the NR are amazingly so much better than the CS rooms. When the CS stock is refurbished it will be a vast improvement I can assure CS customers. There are some small things that I think each of the sleeper set-ups can take from each other. CS has a hotel type tick list for breakfast and wake up time that you place outside the door of each cabin within 30 mins of departure. NR could take up this. NR has a more personalised welcome onto the sleeper especially at Paddington. CS could do well to copy it.
Travelling up to Inverness I was in cabin 1 in my carriage. Noisy. Sleep up to Edinburgh was impossible because of what I perceive as this ghostly whining noise you hear when the train is under wires. I have mentioned this before in other posts in this thread. After Edinburgh I don't hear this noise and therefore relax and sleep.
Kickout time at terminus. I realise that it is important that for many on arrival in London, and the Scottish terminals that people need to move on for holiday and business reasons. But it seems to me that the train companies are rather too eager to get rid of their passengers the moment of arrival. Operational requirements at some destinations may need to have the platforms available for other services. Timetables give you one minute to get off the trains on arrival, but as I saw at Euston on Monday morning, the lowland CS at Platform one had been coupled up for transfer to (Wherever) for servicing, as I disembarked from carriage N on my Inverness sleeper. Is there really such a need to boot off passengers so early at the terminals if the trains are on time?
I rather think that 20-30 minutes to wake up a passenger and for them to prepare to get off the train, at their destination is sufficient. At terminals there are now facilities to shower, breakfast and prepare for the day.
A restructure of the needs and requirements of Sleeper passengers should be looked at, especially at terminal stations.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,697
Location
London
A delayed entry into this discussion: I travelled on the CS from Inverness to Euston Sunday evening diverting via Aberdeen. Had a meal on in the dining car and found that the beef bourginon was again off the menu - why - they are changing the menu again. Not a matter of deep importance but of lack of organisation. I enjoyed the venison replacement. In fact I was well away to sleep before Dundee and for once I was not kept awake by whining ghostly noises when under wires and had a great night until woken by the steward with my breakfast (way too early) just before Rugby. Having also travelled the Night Riviera recently, I have to say that the refurbished rooms on the NR are amazingly so much better than the CS rooms. When the CS stock is refurbished it will be a vast improvement I can assure CS customers. There are some small things that I think each of the sleeper set-ups can take from each other. CS has a hotel type tick list for breakfast and wake up time that you place outside the door of each cabin within 30 mins of departure. NR could take up this. NR has a more personalised welcome onto the sleeper especially at Paddington. CS could do well to copy it.
Travelling up to Inverness I was in cabin 1 in my carriage. Noisy. Sleep up to Edinburgh was impossible because of what I perceive as this ghostly whining noise you hear when the train is under wires. I have mentioned this before in other posts in this thread. After Edinburgh I don't hear this noise and therefore relax and sleep.
Kickout time at terminus. I realise that it is important that for many on arrival in London, and the Scottish terminals that people need to move on for holiday and business reasons. But it seems to me that the train companies are rather too eager to get rid of their passengers the moment of arrival. Operational requirements at some destinations may need to have the platforms available for other services. Timetables give you one minute to get off the trains on arrival, but as I saw at Euston on Monday morning, the lowland CS at Platform one had been coupled up for transfer to (Wherever) for servicing, as I disembarked from carriage N on my Inverness sleeper. Is there really such a need to boot off passengers so early at the terminals if the trains are on time?
I rather think that 20-30 minutes to wake up a passenger and for them to prepare to get off the train, at their destination is sufficient. At terminals there are now facilities to shower, breakfast and prepare for the day.
A restructure of the needs and requirements of Sleeper passengers should be looked at, especially at terminal stations.

Interesting report.

You say the breakfast was too early, was it delivered before the time you requested on the meal request ticket.

Regards kick off times, the timetable does allow for a period of time arrival, shown in the timetable as 'must vacate by' but in practise I've found the staff want you off on arrival or very soon thereafter. I think this is to do with the hosts wanting to get off duty and to their hotel/home &/or wanting to get rid of the ECS out of the station asap. The lowwlnder especially should allow some more time at each to vacate as it's a relatively short overnight journey and arrives quite early at each end, which is great for some but others might like a wee bit more kip.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,056
Location
Macclesfield
When the CS stock is refurbished it will be a vast improvement I can assure CS customers.
The Caledonian Sleeper stock isn't being refurbished, it's being replaced, which is why there's no impetus to make more than minimal changes to the current stock.
Kickout time at terminus. I realise that it is important that for many on arrival in London, and the Scottish terminals that people need to move on for holiday and business reasons. But it seems to me that the train companies are rather too eager to get rid of their passengers the moment of arrival. Operational requirements at some destinations may need to have the platforms available for other services. Timetables give you one minute to get off the trains on arrival, but as I saw at Euston on Monday morning, the lowland CS at Platform one had been coupled up for transfer to (Wherever) for servicing, as I disembarked from carriage N on my Inverness sleeper. Is there really such a need to boot off passengers so early at the terminals if the trains are on time?
I rather think that 20-30 minutes to wake up a passenger and for them to prepare to get off the train, at their destination is sufficient. At terminals there are now facilities to shower, breakfast and prepare for the day.
A restructure of the needs and requirements of Sleeper passengers should be looked at, especially at terminal stations.
According to the timetables, the only terminal station where Caledonian Sleeper passengers are given one minute to alight upon arrival is Inverness. At the London end, passengers alighting from the Highland sleeper have 11 minutes, and passengers from the Lowland sleeper 23 minutes - Entirely in keeping with your guideline of 20 - 30 minutes in the latter case. Passengers alighting from the northbound Lowland sleeper at Edinburgh or Glasgow get longer still if they so wish, though as theironroad notes in the response above mine, these times often seem purely theoretical given the on board staff's usual enthusiasm to get passengers off the train, not that I've ever felt the need to hang around personally. I don't doubt that platform availability is the primary criteria that informs the length of time passengers have to disembark, as you note yourself.

The Lowland sleeper has already been sat in the platform at Euston for over 40 minutes when the Highland arrives, and at the start of the morning rush hour, so it's no surprise that the stock's ready to be taken away for servicing.

The ghostly whining noise, if it's the one I'm thinking of, is heard from the bogies of all mark 3s, and is either something to do with the brakes, as I've always believed, or the air suspension. I'm not sure why it would be more apparent over the portion of the journey under the wires, though come to think of it I can't recall hearing it north of Glasgow when I've travelled over the West Highland line on the sleeper. Not that I've been listening for it particularly; it tends to be the crash of the rail joints on the WHL that wakes me up.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,612
Whenever ive been on the sleeper , the diesel hauled section is a bit quieter and feels heavier . With electric traction feels lighter and faster . Higher linespeeds of course
 

TimboM

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
3,732
Worth noting the Lowlander often gets into Euston significantly early - it's been 50-odd Early last couple of mornings (i.e. about 0620) and is quite often around 30E. I seem to recall from my couple of recent-ish trips on the Lowlander into Euston they're still keen to get you up and out vs it's actual arrival, not the booked arrival time. i.e. they'll bring breakfast/knock on doors at about Watford, whatever time that is.

That said, once in Euston - whilst they'll keep knocking to say "just checking you're still there, sir" - if you don't mind that, you can stay put and enjoy a bit more rest/get yourself together. It's actually a fair while until they say "you really need to get off now as the power's getting cut off" (presumably when the train loco gets cut off ready for the ECS haulage).

5M11 (Lowlander ECS to Wembley) is booked to leave Euston at 0827 and typically leaves within a few minutes either side - so based on the Lowlander's usual early arrival, there's the best part of 2 hours before the stock needs to go back, so not really a big rush to clear it.

Similarly, 5M16 (Highlander ECS to Wembley) leaves 0927 - so a good 1h 40m after the train is booked to arrive.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,783
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The ghostly whining noise, if it's the one I'm thinking of, is heard from the bogies of all mark 3s, and is either something to do with the brakes, as I've always believed, or the air suspension. I'm not sure why it would be more apparent over the portion of the journey under the wires, though come to think of it I can't recall hearing it north of Glasgow when I've travelled over the West Highland line on the sleeper. Not that I've been listening for it particularly; it tends to be the crash of the rail joints on the WHL that wakes me up.

The constant background whine is the motor-alternator sets which for some reason sound different when connected to an AC loco than a diesel one. The intermittent whine is indeed the air suspension levelling itself, you hear it a lot at stations as people board and alight.
 

gsnedders

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2015
Messages
1,472
Worth noting the Lowlander often gets into Euston significantly early - it's been 50-odd Early last couple of mornings (i.e. about 0620) and is quite often around 30E. I seem to recall from my couple of recent-ish trips on the Lowlander into Euston they're still keen to get you up and out vs it's actual arrival, not the booked arrival time. i.e. they'll bring breakfast/knock on doors at about Watford, whatever time that is.

That said, once in Euston - whilst they'll keep knocking to say "just checking you're still there, sir" - if you don't mind that, you can stay put and enjoy a bit more rest/get yourself together. It's actually a fair while until they say "you really need to get off now as the power's getting cut off" (presumably when the train loco gets cut off ready for the ECS haulage).
This is part of what makes the Lowlander so unattractive to me: you frequently get woken up before six, and when I rarely manage to get to sleep in the 40 minutes between leaving Central and Carstairs I'm often down to under five hours sleep. If I'm getting that little sleep, I may as well go to bed at midnight and get up at 5 and fly down.
 

Essexman

Established Member
Joined
15 Mar 2011
Messages
1,380
I never have breakfast on the Lowlander as they want to wake you up so early.

In my experience they are better at letting passengers stay in berths on arrival at Euston than they used to be. A few years ago I was once hassled several times to leave (well before the advertised time) and in the end told that I must get off as the train was about to be taken to the sidings. On alighting I found that there still wasn't a locomotive attached to fulfil that purpose.
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,817
Location
Epsom
I never have breakfast on the Lowlander as they want to wake you up so early.

I'm the same - gets me an extra 30 minutes sleep, I also prefer the fuller breakfasts that are available to the destinations... the Central Hotel in Glasgow and the Scotsman Hotel in Edinburgh both sell substantial breakfasts to non-residents.
 

adrock1976

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2013
Messages
4,450
Location
What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
For information.

Friday 30 November
1M16 Inverness - London Euston had the following locos:

67010 Inverness - Edinburgh Waverley
92033 Edinburgh Waverley - London Euston

I picked up the sleeper from Falkirk Grahamston last night. It appeared to have departed Waverley 40 minutes behind schedule, arriving Euston also 40 minutes delayed at 08:26 this morning.
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
20,391
Location
0035
I think this thread is perhaps getting a little unwieldy and in danger of becoming a ‘Master thread’ given the discussion elsewhere, so I have now locked this thread.

There is already a thread on the new rolling stock here, for matters relating to the new Mk V coaches

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper-mk5-discussion.125156/

The discussion on alternative Sleeper.scot interior layout was quite interesting, so I’ve moved it to a new thread here for discussion

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/suggestions-for-alternative-caledonian-sleeper-layout.174351/

(Note this is in the Speculative ideas section, so if you have under 5 posts you won’t be able to view it quite yet.) I would suggest anyone who wants to make a suggestion about service changes also makes a new thread in this section if they wish to.

Anyone who wishes to make any trip reports or make any enquiries is also welcome to make a new thread in the appropriate ‘Trip reports and planning’ forum, or use this one:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trips-on-caledonian-sleeper.174411/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top