Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Bletchleyite]

What probably happened was that the errored purchase locked the berths at that price (then all the berths) for a period of time, then released them later. It's the problem with the Web being effectively stateless - it doesn't know that your browser has navigated away.

 

[najaB]

What probably happened was that the errored purchase locked the berths at that price (then all the berths) for a period of time, then released them later.

If it's like most(?) websites it would have 'locked' the berths for two hours unless the cancel button was pressed to terminate the vending process.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it's like most(?) websites it would have 'locked' the berths for two hours unless the cancel button was pressed to terminate the vending process.

It also happens with flights. It's because the Web is stateless - closing the browser doesn't do anything to tell the site it has been closed, so it has to be assumed it has been left open.

 

[najaB]

It also happens with flights. It's because the Web is stateless - closing the browser doesn't do anything to tell the site it has been closed, so it has to be assumed it has been left open.

In theory you could start adding event listeners and overloading the onunload() method but it start getting messy very quickly (user hits refresh, etc.). Much easier to treat it as a stateless system and deal with occasional quirks like phantom reservations.

 

[gsnedders]

In theory you could start adding event listeners and overloading the onunload() method but it start getting messy very quickly (user hits refresh, etc.). Much easier to treat it as a stateless system and deal with occasional quirks like phantom reservations.

There are limits to what you can do with the unload event, and long-running requests are liable to get cancelled (I want to say in 1 or 2s, which on a high-latency connection is easily hit). I think beacons can be used reliability, but they aren't supported in Safari (and are only supported in the latest release of Edge).

 

[crewmeal]

In theory you could start adding event listeners and overloading the onunload() method but it start getting messy very quickly (user hits refresh, etc.). Much easier to treat it as a stateless system and deal with occasional quirks like phantom reservations.

All customers want to do is to carry out a seamless hassle free booking on a website, which obviously in this case turns out to be totally complex. I would have thought it would be "much easier" to make a booking over the old fashioned phone! Even as a seasoned computer operator I will never understand how such sites manage to screw up a booking leaving customers to go elsewhere, thereby loose revenue and custom.

 

[najaB]

All customers want to do is to carry out a seamless hassle free booking on a website, which obviously in this case turns out to be totally complex.

When it works, which is the majority of the time, it is simple and painless. Sometimes it goes wrong - CS isn't alone in this. The only thing they could reasonably do is reduce the time that bookings stay in the basket.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Even after leaving carstairs 6 late!

Is that a record? I have never seen it quite that early!

I have several times, over the past few years, arrived at Euston over an hour early on the Sleeper.

 

[najaB]

I have several times, over the past few years, arrived at Euston over an hour early on the Sleeper.

Highland or Lowland? Possibly the most frustrating experience is when the Highland is routed down the ECML and gets a clear run. You get to within spitting distance of Euston and then go up to Wembley to wait for 30+ minutes.

 

[causton]

Lowland is frequently very early.

For the last few weeks (as per RecentTrainTimes) the arrival times at Watford have been (as opposed to scheduled 06:43):

06:44 1L 05:51 RT 06:20 RT 06:05 RT 06:38 RT 05:56 RT 06:00 RT 06:00 RT 06:04 RT 05:43 RT 05:59 RT 06:00 RT 06:03 RT 06:01 RT 06:42 RT 06:32 RT 06:26 RT 06:32 RT 06:43 RT 06:05 RT 06:15 RT 05:58 RT 06:07 RT 06:29 RT 05:57 RT 05:53 RT 06:10 RT 06:24 RT 06:31 RT 06:20 RT 06:11 RT 06:09 RT 07:18 35L

So quite a few early arrivals!

 

[TimboM]

Reported as a shunting incident at Craigentinny, although the cab of the 73 is said to be badly damaged. Pics on Facebook if you have access (I've not seen them).

Thanks. Not having much luck with the 73s are they!

 

[cj_1985]

Thanks. Not having much luck with the 73s are they!

Must admit to being more than a little curious myself as yo how they look post damage

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Highland or Lowland?

Both, but in all cases I am talking about WCML runs rather than ECML diversions. I don't think I've done more than one ECML diversion.

 

[najaB]

Both, but in all cases I am talking about WCML runs rather than ECML diversions. I don't think I've done more than one ECML diversion.

I don't think I've ever been more than five minutes or so early on the Highland - on either mainline. I'm surprised that the Highland gets a clear path when it's running early without getting caught up in the start of the commuter peak.

 

[JonathanH]

Lowland is frequently very early.

For the last few weeks (as per RecentTrainTimes) the arrival times at Watford have been (as opposed to scheduled 06:43):

06:44 1L 05:51 RT 06:20 RT 06:05 RT 06:38 RT 05:56 RT 06:00 RT 06:00 RT 06:04 RT 05:43 RT 05:59 RT 06:00 RT 06:03 RT 06:01 RT 06:42 RT 06:32 RT 06:26 RT 06:32 RT 06:43 RT 06:05 RT 06:15 RT 05:58 RT 06:07 RT 06:29 RT 05:57 RT 05:53 RT 06:10 RT 06:24 RT 06:31 RT 06:20 RT 06:11 RT 06:09 RT 07:18 35L

So quite a few early arrivals!

The Lowland sleeper is basically pathed so that it can operate via Northampton and arrive at 0707. When it goes via Northampton, precedence appears to be given to 1Y76 0516 Rugby to London Euston http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P45487/2017/01/10/advanced such that on one occasion, we were held past Milton Keynes to allow it to go first despite having overtaken at Northampton.

If the Lowland sleeper is early at Rugby and the line via Weedon is open, it basically has a free run into Euston with no conflicts subject to the overnight engineering having finished.

The Highland sleeper is much more tightly packed and everything is set up for it to slot in at Rugby after a series of early Virgin Trains services, so usually, you pull up at Rugby to allow 1R04 to pass.

1R02 0505 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston to stop
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P51796/2017/01/10/advanced
and 1R04 0545 Wolverhampton to London Euston to pass
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P51798/2017/01/10/advanced

The slower speed of the Highland sleeper then allows both 1R02 and 1R04 to stop at Milton Keynes and 1Y80 0557 Coventry to London Euston http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P45489/2017/01/10/advanced to pull onto the fast lines at Ledburn Junction.

WTT arrival times at Euston are
1R02 0726
1R04 0734
1Y80 0739
1M16 0743

The next Virgin Trains service from Liverpool then is due at 0750.

The Highland Sleeper never leaves Crewe early (as it would otherwise cause conflict with 1R02 which leaves five minutes ahead) whereas the Lowland Sleeper seems to be free to run from about Warrington south without constraint.

 

[Johnuk123]

Thanks. Not having much luck with the 73s are they!

Being one of the ugliest things ever to soil the rails in this country having one end smashed in might be a decent improvement.

 

[causton]

The Lowland sleeper is basically pathed so that it can operate via Northampton and arrive at 0707. When it goes via Northampton, precedence appears to be given to 1Y76 0516 Rugby to London Euston http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P45487/2017/01/10/advanced such that on one occasion, we were held past Milton Keynes to allow it to go first despite having overtaken at Northampton.

Even worse than that, one time we arrived at Rugby at about 0455 and were held for the 0516 to run, then followed it all the way to Watford as booked! Could have been much, much earlier even taking into account going via Northampton but we had to wait for 1Y76 twice!

 

[JonathanH]

Even worse than that, one time we arrived at Rugby at about 0455 and were held for the 0516 to run, then followed it all the way to Watford as booked! Could have been much, much earlier even taking into account going via Northampton but we had to wait for 1Y76 twice!

Yes, and what is really annoying about that, particularly if you are in the seats, is that the braking at Rugby is enough to wake you up some way away from Euston with another two hours to go. Then, because you are following 1Y76 you get the braking again at each stop from Rugby to Leighton Buzzard. All in all that makes for a much more disrupted night / early morning.

1Y76 seems to be the first train on the fasts (from Ledburn) if Weedon is shut so I guess that 1M11 can't go in front of it.

 

[CosherB]

Being one of the ugliest things ever to soil the rails in this country having one end smashed in might be a decent improvement.

Sorry to disappoint you, but now having seen a photo elsewhere on the interweb of the aforementioned 73, the "badly damaged" front is basically the yellow panel stoved in right in the middle - not insignificant damage, but not reflecting the hyperbolic descriptions used previously!

Anyway, what's wrong with the aesthetics of a 73? hock:

 

[Scotrail84]

The Lowland sleeper is basically pathed so that it can operate via Northampton and arrive at 0707. When it goes via Northampton, precedence appears to be given to 1Y76 0516 Rugby to London Euston http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P45487/2017/01/10/advanced such that on one occasion, we were held past Milton Keynes to allow it to go first despite having overtaken at Northampton.

If the Lowland sleeper is early at Rugby and the line via Weedon is open, it basically has a free run into Euston with no conflicts subject to the overnight engineering having finished.

The Highland sleeper is much more tightly packed and everything is set up for it to slot in at Rugby after a series of early Virgin Trains services, so usually, you pull up at Rugby to allow 1R04 to pass.

1R02 0505 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston to stop
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P51796/2017/01/10/advanced
and 1R04 0545 Wolverhampton to London Euston to pass
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P51798/2017/01/10/advanced

The slower speed of the Highland sleeper then allows both 1R02 and 1R04 to stop at Milton Keynes and 1Y80 0557 Coventry to London Euston http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P45489/2017/01/10/advanced to pull onto the fast lines at Ledburn Junction.

WTT arrival times at Euston are
1R02 0726
1R04 0734
1Y80 0739
1M16 0743

The next Virgin Trains service from Liverpool then is due at 0750.

The Highland Sleeper never leaves Crewe early (as it would otherwise cause conflict with 1R02 which leaves five minutes ahead) whereas the Lowland Sleeper seems to be free to run from about Warrington south without constraint.

That is 100% not true mate!

 

[Clansman]

That is 100% not true mate!

Thought that myself. Alighted the sleeper at Crewe a good few times now and at least once has it left early.

2 times in the past week has the sleeper left early...

> http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C74103/2016/12/23/advanced
> http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C74102/2016/12/22/advanced

 

[JonathanH]

Thought that myself. Alighted the sleeper at Crewe a good few times now and at least once has it left early.

2 times in the past week has the sleeper left early...

> http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C74103/2016/12/23/advanced
> http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C74102/2016/12/22/advanced

And on other times it has waited until right time at Crewe despite arriving 20 minutes early. I guess I was a little heavy with the use of the word 'never'. The point is that it doesn't get the free hand to run 20 minutes early into Euston.

On the second of those links it seems to have held 1R02 up through the Trent Valley and then, as a result, been held up by that train later on at Rugby once it had passed which perhaps makes the point that it shouldn't leave Crewe earlier than 1R02 when that train runs via Wilmslow.

 

[Scotrail84]

And on other times it has waited until right time at Crewe despite arriving 20 minutes early. I guess I was a little heavy with the use of the word 'never'. The point is that it doesn't get the free hand to run 20 minutes early into Euston.

On the second of those links it seems to have held 1R02 up through the Trent Valley and then, as a result, been held up by that train later on at Rugby once it had passed which perhaps makes the point that it shouldn't leave Crewe earlier than 1R02 when that train runs via Wilmslow.

It has left Crewe 15-20 early but always gets held at Rugby.

 

[87015]

Some palava with the ED at Inverness yet again, Colas duff been scrambled to go up light and come back as mobile EH van instead of 73...

 

[Scotrail84]

Some palava with the ED at Inverness yet again, Colas duff been scrambled to go up light and come back as mobile EH van instead of 73...

Well its away on time at least.

 

[dubscottie]

Sorry to disappoint you, but now having seen a photo elsewhere on the interweb of the aforementioned 73, the "badly damaged" front is basically the yellow panel stoved in right in the middle - not insignificant damage, but not reflecting the hyperbolic descriptions used previously!

Anyway, what's wrong with the aesthetics of a 73? hock:

Going to share the pic?

Also why do the 73's use the buckeyes when coupled to coaches but use screwlinks when coupled together? (ie loco to loco)

 

[CosherB]

Going to share the pic?

No, because it's on another forum. Soz.

 

[fgwrich]

Going to share the pic?

Also why do the 73's use the buckeyes when coupled to coaches but use screwlinks when coupled together? (ie loco to loco)

Here is the picture from Facebook. I've credited Roger G Elliott as it's his picture‎.

 

[marks87]

It looks like it's just eaten a very sour soor ploom.

 

[dubscottie]

Here is the picture from Facebook. I've credited Roger G Elliott as it's his picture‎.

Thanks!

Unusual damage alright! Tree or a block hanging from a overbridge?

No signs of damage to the drawgear..

Or a frozen turkey?