Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

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trebor79

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And don't these coaches require some kind of computer interface? Wasn't there a case a few months back whereby the brakes couldn't be released due to some interface issue?
 

JohnMcL7

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And don't these coaches require some kind of computer interface? Wasn't there a case a few months back whereby the brakes couldn't be released due to some interface issue?
I was wondering about that as well, wasn't there a fault where the mk5's had automatically applied the brakes due to a problem with the interface to the 73's? Also are the braking commands sent through the Dellner coupler? If the ETS cable is separate does that mean the rescue loco can supply power with a pass through on the failed 92?
 

TimboM

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The locos 'communicate' with the stock via the 61-way jumper (same one used for multi-working).
ETS is supplied by separate dedicated jumper cables.

I don't know for certain, but I would hope/expect that the Mk5s are able to use their own power (battery) supply if needed in an 'emergency' and not be wholly reliant on the locomotive - or if not revert to some mode that doesn't require the TMS (computer) to enable them to do the basic functions. Otherwise, if the loco sits down, the train couldn't move anywhere until another Mk5 compatible loco is found, which wouldn't be too clever.

Worth noting a 92 has not failed on the Sleeper since January last year. It's more likely the stock itself has some sort of issue, particularly whilst its new and any gremlins are resolved.
 

47271

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Worth noting a 92 has not failed on the Sleeper since January last year. It's more likely the stock itself has some sort of issue, particularly whilst its new and any gremlins are resolved.
Also worth noting that the sleeper generally is running pretty reliably at the moment. I'm hearing that the remaining mk3s are in very good order - smooth running and none of the usual pesky plumbing and temperature control problems.

Quite impressive considering most of the stock will be off for scrap within the next six months.
 

Bletchleyite

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Also worth noting that the sleeper generally is running pretty reliably at the moment. I'm hearing that the remaining mk3s are in very good order - smooth running and none of the usual pesky plumbing and temperature control problems.

Quite impressive considering most of the stock will be off for scrap within the next six months.
I do seem to see Mk2s with the lights off more often than not, though. This could become a big problem if the new stock isn't in place before it gets too busy to just routinely be upgrading people free to berths.
 

JohnMcL7

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So if they have to haul the sleeper south without overhead power, how would they do it on diesel power? I was watching a video where a pair of 47's were hauling the sleeper on the first section then swapping with a 92 and taking the north sleepers back up. That would have been scheduled but if only the 92's and 73/9's can haul the sleeper that seems to limit their options.
 

47271

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I do seem to see Mk2s with the lights off more often than not, though. This could become a big problem if the new stock isn't in place before it gets too busy to just routinely be upgrading people free to berths.
I didn't say anything about mk2s(!) and I quite agree, the Spring's got the makings of being a shambles, especially now that they've scrapped mk3s all over the place. I'm sure they know what they're doing...
 

bastien

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I didn't say anything about mk2s(!) and I quite agree, the Spring's got the makings of being a shambles, especially now that they've scrapped mk3s all over the place. I'm sure they know what they're doing...
If I ran Booths, I wouldn't be taking the torch to the mk3s straight away.
 

TimboM

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Shame an open access operator can't pick up these decent Mark 3s and start a budget service (maybe with aforementioned capsules).
Sleeper trains are phenomenally expensive to run and are not cost effective. The Caledonian Sleeper only runs with approx. £4m per year subsidy from the government, plus the government paying for the majority of the new stock - and even after that, Serco currently are losing £3-4m per year on it. Bearing in mind that's a service between main cities/capitals, it's not something that would be at all attractive to an open access operator.
 

marks87

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So if they have to haul the sleeper south without overhead power, how would they do it on diesel power? I was watching a video where a pair of 47's were hauling the sleeper on the first section then swapping with a 92 and taking the north sleepers back up. That would have been scheduled but if only the 92's and 73/9's can haul the sleeper that seems to limit their options.
I might have been imagining it, but I'm sure I read a post on here that said the Mk5s have pretty good batteries that can keep them going for, er, a decent length of time.

So the solution to non-electrified diversions would be not dissimilar to my rescue scenario above: use the 92 as a barrier between the dragging locomotive(s) and the stock, and let the batteries take care of heat and light. Assuming, that is, ETS can't be passed through (but even then you wouldn't find anything that has a high enough index for the whole formation).
 

Journeyman

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Sleeper trains are phenomenally expensive to run and are not cost effective. The Caledonian Sleeper only runs with approx. £4m per year subsidy from the government, plus the government paying for the majority of the new stock - and even after that, Serco currently are losing £3-4m per year on it. Bearing in mind that's a service between main cities/capitals, it's not something that would be at all attractive to an open access operator.
Absolutely - it's a nice idea that gets suggested every now and again, but both the remaining UK sleeper operations have had a lot of government money ploughed into them and will never come anywhere near being able to run commercially. The idea of using Mark 3s on a Central Belt - Wick/Thurso sleeper has been raised a few times, but the suggestion is it would also transport mail and/or freight, and it'll never run unless a huge amount of money is thrown at it - can't see that happening in the current rather precarious political/economic environment.

The only other route that might be viable is Glasgow/Edinburgh to the South West, but again I doubt anyone will stump up the cash for that, and in the winter the trains would probably be empty.
 

33Hz

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Sleeper trains are phenomenally expensive to run and are not cost effective.
The OeBB Nightjet services are not only growing in numbers since taken over from the Germans, but are profitable according to several recent statements in the German-speaking press.
 

trebor79

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I can see why sleeper trains on the current model are not cost effective. However, if the MK3 vehicles were refurbished with pods, like the OBB design shared a few posts ago, you could get far more people into each coach.
Some refurbed MK3, or new sleeper vehicles with say 40 pods in each, with a nice restaurant car on the right routes could do very well.
 

Northhighland

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Absolutely - it's a nice idea that gets suggested every now and again, but both the remaining UK sleeper operations have had a lot of government money ploughed into them and will never come anywhere near being able to run commercially. The idea of using Mark 3s on a Central Belt - Wick/Thurso sleeper has been raised a few times, but the suggestion is it would also transport mail and/or freight, and it'll never run unless a huge amount of money is thrown at it - can't see that happening in the current rather precarious political/economic environment.

The only other route that might be viable is Glasgow/Edinburgh to the South West, but again I doubt anyone will stump up the cash for that, and in the winter the trains would probably be empty.
To be honest as someone who lives in Caithness and communities regularly to the central belt we would be far more appreciative of a more frequent and reliable air service.

A sleeper train from Caithness to Edinburgh or Glasgow is no real advantage. Can see in the summer months some tourists liking that bit fir business travellers not much advantage.

Also cost wise subsidy on an air route probably cheaper?
 

MylesHSG

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Does anyone know when some of the Mk5 stock will appear at Wembley? I'm a signaller at Willesden Carriage Shed North and have been rather looking forward to seeing the new stock in person (and maybe getting a look inside!)
 

modernrail

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The OeBB Nightjet services are not only growing in numbers since taken over from the Germans, but are profitable according to several recent statements in the German-speaking press.
Sat in Austria at the moment and had this very thought yesterday. If true, I wonder what their magic sauce is. I used them recently and it is an excellent service.
 

EE Andy b1

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So what is the hold up now for the Mk5 sleepers coming into service?
Will these initially be from May on limited or full service.
They have now done a couple of tests from Scotland to London Euston.
 

47271

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I don't know whar the hold up has been exactly, but per the general sleeper thread, latest is Lowlander going to new stock at the end of April, and Highlander at the start of June.
 

EE Andy b1

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I don't know whar the hold up has been exactly, but per the general sleeper thread, latest is Lowlander going to new stock at the end of April, and Highlander at the start of June.
OK thanks, let's hope so. As well as the Mk3 sleepers seem to be running at the moment they are well past there best internally and Caledonian needs to move forward.
 

TimboM

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There’s a significant amount of testing, proving, finishing, mileage accumulation, staff training (including drivers, shunters, maintenance, guards, on-board crew etc), methods of operation to confirm etc etc etc

It’s not a case of going from the very first full mock-up run with only test crew on board to full service a week or two later.
 
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Hello does anyone on here know when the Mk5s enter passenger service with CS - and will they enter service on the Lowlander and Highlander sleepers on the same day.
 

Mag_seven

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Hello does anyone on here know when the Mk5s enter passenger service with CS - and will they enter service on the Lowlander and Highlander sleepers on the same day.
see post #834 :

I don't know whar the hold up has been exactly, but per the general sleeper thread, latest is Lowlander going to new stock at the end of April, and Highlander at the start of June.
 

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