Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

[A7rud]

Can anyone please tell me the consist of
5S07 1349 Carlisle to Polmadie Car M.D on Friday 15th March?

 

[_toommm_]

Can anyone please tell me the consist of
5S07 1349 Carlisle to Polmadie Car M.D on Friday 15th March?

Wrong thread buddy - you need to post it in the TOPS request thread under the Diagrams sub forum...

 

[Highlandspring]

73970, 15007, 15105, 15205, 15314, 15333, 15332, 15331, 15330

 

[VT 390]

What are the chances of the Mk5 coaches not entering service on the Lowlander in April and the Highlander in May?
Are they likely to meet these dates and once they enter service on each route will all services switch to Mk5 operation or will it be a gradual change?

 

[VT 390]

I don't know whar the hold up has been exactly, but per the general sleeper thread, latest is Lowlander going to new stock at the end of April, and Highlander at the start of June.

Are you sure the Highlander starts in June as according to Caledonian Sleepers website they will be operating from all stations by the end of May 2019, has it been delayed again?
http://newtrains.sleeper.scot/news/update-on-the-introduction-of-the-new-caledonian-sleeper-trains/

 

[JonathanH]

all services switch to Mk5 operation or will it be a gradual change?

There has to be a full switch over on each route because:
a) the class 92s need to be set up to provide 1500V power to the Mk5s and the same locomotive works the Carstairs portion of both north and southbound lowland sleepers
b) the same carriages work the 'day' portion of the Fort William sleeper on the same night/morning.

 

[TimboM]

There has to be a full switch over on each route because...

It’s feasible to work the Lowlander with old stock in one direction and new stock in the other. You’d need a couple of extra locos in the mix and it’d be a bit of a headache, but doable.

 

[nat67]

It’s feasible to work the Lowlander with old stock in one direction and new stock in the other. You’d need a couple of extra locos in the mix and it’d be a bit of a headache, but doable.

By only 92's and 73/9's will work with the Mk5's and they aren't exactly the most reliable loco's.
It is a bit of a headache as you won't have 86/87 for ECS working's.

 

[JonathanH]

It’s feasible to work the Lowlander with old stock in one direction and new stock in the other. You’d need a couple of extra locos in the mix and it’d be a bit of a headache, but doable.

I was thinking that as I wrote it - you presumably would either need a 73/9 for the Carstairs portion, use the 1M16 or 1S25 engine as appropriate or explicitly have a different engine each way. Or does the fact that the Carstairs is only eight coach mean that an unmodified 92 can haul it with Mk5s?

 

[TimboM]

By only 92's and 73/9's will work with the Mk5's and they aren't exactly the most reliable loco's.
It is a bit of a headache as you won't have 86/87 for ECS working's.

92s and 73/9s are as reliable as anything else these days.
Two additional 92s being added to the fleet which’ll make up for the 86s/87 going.

I was thinking that as I wrote it - you presumably would either need a 73/9 for the Carstairs portion, use the 1M16 or 1S25 engine as appropriate or explicitly have a different engine each way. Or does the fact that the Carstairs is only eight coach mean that an unmodified 92 can haul it with Mk5s?

There’s various ways it could be planned, but most likely scenario is more locos being required - simplistically an extra Mk5 ECS engine at Wembley and an extra Carstairs loco.

 

[A7rud]

Wrong thread buddy - you need to post it in the TOPS request thread under the Diagrams sub forum...

So sorry for posting to the incorrect thread. I now know where to ask any similar question

 

[A7rud]

73970, 15007, 15105, 15205, 15314, 15333, 15332, 15331, 15330

Many thanks for replying to my incorrectly placed post.

 

[_toommm_]

So sorry for posting to the incorrect thread. I now know where to ask any similar question

That's okay - just a heads up for where you're most likely to get the replies for it!

 

[captainbigun]

92s and 73/9s are as reliable as anything else these days.
Two additional 92s being added to the fleet which’ll make up for the 86s/87 going.

92 reliability is much improved. Availability is still somewhat problematic and there’s no obvious signs of that improving.

 

[DimTim]

There has to be a full switch over on each route because:
a) the class 92s need to be set up to provide 1500V power to the Mk5s and the same locomotive works the Carstairs portion of both north and southbound lowland sleepers
b) the same carriages work the 'day' portion of the Fort William sleeper on the same night/morning.

So the saloon carriages added at Edinburgh for Fort William will need to operate on 1500v?
Are these new Mark 5s or is existing stock being converted?

 

[gsnedders]

So the saloon carriages added at Edinburgh for Fort William will need to operate on 1500v?
Are these new Mark 5s or is existing stock being converted?

New Mark 5s.

 

[JonathanH]

So the saloon carriages added at Edinburgh for Fort William will need to operate on 1500v?
Are these new Mark 5s or is existing stock being converted?

I was thinking more that you can't couple Mk2s to Mk5s, regardless of the voltage issue. The saloon carriages added at Edinburgh for the Fort William train will be Mk5s in common with the rest of the train after changeover.

 

[TimboM]

So the saloon carriages added at Edinburgh for Fort William will need to operate on 1500v?
Are these new Mark 5s or is existing stock being converted?

It’s the ETS supply coming out of the locos that has the different voltage - not the coaches.

The Mk5s will work with both 900v supply from the 73/9s and 1500v from the 92s. The 1500v is required as the 92s will be hauling the full Load 16 rakes on the WCML which have a high ETS demand.

Plugging the 1500v Class 92 supply into old stock only designed for 900v would likely frazzle things.

The coaches added at Edinburgh are just a brake/seats coach and lounge/club car which are the same as any other ones in the “main” rakes.

 

[VT 390]

In the April issue of Modern Railways it says that the new stock will be in service in July, is this a mistake or has it been delayed again from June?

 

[Mag_seven]

In the April issue of Modern Railways it says that the new stock will be in service in July, is this a mistake or has it been delayed again from June?

Don't believe everything you read in the railway press.

 

[theironroad]

Don't believe everything you read in the railway press.

While I'd don't know the factual details of this particular date, it's not only the railway press it's hard to believe.

Toc after TOC promises this that and the proverbial other for the introduction of new or refurbished trains or projects and I'd suggest that a large majority of those milestones are missed. People know that issues may crop up during build etc so it would be more honest of tocs to keep the dates very vague.

 

[47271]

I'm still hearing Lowlander at the end of April and Highlander at the start of June, and that's coming from crew talking to regular passengers.

 

[TimboM]

There's still only 56 of 75 coaches in the country.
The eight test runs over the last two weeks between Glasgow and London (4 in each direction) have all been the same 7 coaches.

2x 16 sets ready in 4 weeks time?
4x 16 sets + spares ready in 9 weeks time?

 

[BRX]

Are they yet to run a 16 coach set then?

 

[TimboM]

Are they yet to run a 16 coach set then?

Yes - the very first 'shadow Lowlander' back in January was a full Load 16 with Edinburgh portion and Carstairs join/split operations. Since then it's only been half-sets.

Those 16 coaches included the half-set that have been doing all the runs this last fortnight.

 

[VT 390]

There's still only 56 of 75 coaches in the country.
The eight test runs over the last two weeks between Glasgow and London (4 in each direction) have all been the same 7 coaches.

2x 16 sets ready in 4 weeks time?
4x 16 sets + spares ready in 9 weeks time?

How quickly are they being delivered?

 

[TimboM]

How quickly are they being delivered?

So far:

Jan 2018 x5 (initial test rake that went to Velim)
Feb 2018 x12
Apr 2018 x4
June 2018 x10
July 2018 x9

Jan 2019 x8
Mar 2019 x8

 

[47271]

There's still only 56 of 75 coaches in the country.
The eight test runs over the last two weeks between Glasgow and London (4 in each direction) have all been the same 7 coaches.

2x 16 sets ready in 4 weeks time?
4x 16 sets + spares ready in 9 weeks time?

Fair enough, in which case I don't know why they keep giving out the dates that they do. I know the passengers passing on the info very well and they won't be mistaken about what they've been told, so there must be some duff information doing the rounds within CS.

 

[VT 390]

Fair enough, in which case I don't know why they keep giving out the dates that they do. I know the passengers passing on the info very well and they won't be mistaken about what they've been told, so there must be some duff information doing the rounds within CS.

On the Caledonian Sleeper website you can still by tickets for the new sleeper trains from June 2nd which must mean it is still quite possible to introduce the new stock by this date as otherwise would they not have removed these tickets?

 

[TimboM]

Fair enough, in which case I don't know why they keep giving out the dates that they do. I know the passengers passing on the info very well and they won't be mistaken about what they've been told, so there must be some duff information doing the rounds within CS.

I don't doubt that's what they're being told and that's still the target / official launch date.
The progress of deliveries and other observations as noted above would suggest that date to be very challenging/optimistic though.

On the Caledonian Sleeper website you can still by tickets for the new sleeper trains from June 2nd which must mean it is still quite possible to introduce the new stock by this date as otherwise would they not have removed these tickets?

Tickets were previously sold for the new stock on the Lowlander from late October (2018) when that was the planned launch date for that service. It's now five months later and still no sign of the Mk5s on the Lowlander.