Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

[marks87]

It looks like there's been some kind of publicity run if this Tweet was anything to go by:

https://twitter.com/MorayMacdonald/status/1115911142264774661

 

[Highlandspring]

It's the high profile Mk5 media/VIP launch today, one half set topped and tailed by 73971 and 73969. At the moment it is heading from Glasgow Central to Edinburgh Waverley via Shotts and the Sub, then it runs round the Sub again before going Edinburgh Waverley to Townhill Loops (Dunfermline) and back to Glasgow Central via Cumbernauld.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's the high profile Mk5 media/VIP launch today, one half set topped and tailed by 73971 and 73969. At the moment it is heading from Glasgow Central to Edinburgh Waverley via Shotts and the Sub, then it runs round the Sub again before going Edinburgh Waverley to Townhill Loops (Dunfermline) and back to Glasgow Central via Cumbernauld.

...and I'm on it!

The stock is good and rides very well. The colour scheme inside looks a lot better in real than in the pictures.

 

[JohnMcL7]

There's been a few headlines today and noticed some of them referenced the Dellner couplers specifically as making for a smoother ride when the stock was being shunted at Edinburgh, is that true? Any discussion about the couplers I've seen here has been in reference to making joining/splitting the stock easier.

 

[TimboM]

There's been a few headlines today and noticed some of them referenced the Dellner couplers specifically as making for a smoother ride when the stock was being shunted at Edinburgh, is that true? Any discussion about the couplers I've seen here has been in reference to making joining/splitting the stock easier.

Yes - Dellners have to be coupled at MAX 1.7 mph (I think) - very, very slowly anyway. They bring them together initially very gently until they’re just “kissing” and then ease them together. I’d doubt you’d notice even if you were awake.

 

[nat67]

There's been a few headlines today and noticed some of them referenced the Dellner couplers specifically as making for a smoother ride when the stock was being shunted at Edinburgh, is that true? Any discussion about the couplers I've seen here has been in reference to making joining/splitting the stock easier.

Yes I heard about it on Radio 2 this afternoon by Steve Wright. Stating it will be a luxury hotel on wheels. Ca Ching.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes - Dellners have to be coupled at MAX 1.7 mph (I think) - very, very slowly anyway. They bring them together initially very gently until they’re just “kissing” and then ease them together. I’d doubt you’d notice even if you were awake.

You can feel it when two Desiros couple up, but it is a very light bump and not a banging together that you do with a buckeye.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes I heard about it on Radio 2 this afternoon by Steve Wright. Stating it will be a luxury hotel on wheels. Ca Ching.

From what I saw and experienced yesterday, it will be well worth the increased fares. The quality and attention to detail is really that good.

 

[nat67]

From what I saw and experienced yesterday, it will be well worth the increased fares. The quality and attention to detail is really that good.

I just don't think that many rail enthusiasts such as my self can afford to pay for it. It's okay for tourists from Dubai or China perhaps. Mind they would just get a plane or go on an LNER IET instead.

 

[GusB]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00043jq/reporting-scotland-evening-news-11042019

Reporting Scotland did a short report on the new stock this evening - skip to around 12:20.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Here's a link to what I've just posted on the main Caledonian Sleeper thread with four pictures of the new interiors.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper.176365/page-24#post-3958805

 

[marks87]

I just don't think that many rail enthusiasts such as my self can afford to pay for it. It's okay for tourists from Dubai or China perhaps. Mind they would just get a plane or go on an LNER IET instead.

Why should they pitch the prices to suit enthusiasts?

For people that need to travel in one direction or the other it’s actually quite reasonably priced relative to a hotel if you're already in possession of an open ticket.

 

[Iskra]

Why should they pitch the prices to suit enthusiasts?

For people that need to travel in one direction or the other it’s actually quite reasonably priced relative to a hotel if you're already in possession of an open ticket.

People buying open tickets must be in a small minority though. Advances on LNER (Inverness/Aberdeen) or ScotRail/VTWC (stations to Fort William) plus a premier Inn would still work out cheaper I would imagine.

 

[gordonjahn]

People buying open tickets must be in a small minority though. Advances on LNER (Inverness/Aberdeen) or ScotRail/VTWC (stations to Fort William) plus a premier Inn would still work out cheaper I would imagine.

I don't think I'd agree with this - from Glasgow to London (return) it's under £150 for a walk up fare for everything except the first train of the day (around 4.30am) which compares favourably with flight plus airport bus/trains in both cost and time terms - the berth supplement then becomes a slightly more expensive hotel, sure, but one that has great utility.

Where I think CS have messed up is the loss of Sleepers from the other booking sites which just massively complicates booking flexible return journeys - with Virgin I can book an advance single out and they'll sell me an "off peak single online" (or something like that) for the journey back which is half the cost of an off peak return, but that can only be bought when buying the other direction - you can't have the "off peak single online" for a single journey. To take advantage of this, I need to be able to book the sleeper on the same site though. By not allowing this, I have to pay for a full off peak single price (so about £140) one way if I get the sleeper in the other direction.

The result was the last time I used the sleeper, I was on an advance single and got easyJet back as flight is definitely much cheaper than £140 single.

I'm not even sure that they've realised the effect of not having Sleepers on the train line / virgin booking systems, or the cost implications for travellers, but the thought of multiple transactions and bookings just puts me off unless it's absolutely essential.

 

[Bletchleyite]

People buying open tickets must be in a small minority though. Advances on LNER (Inverness/Aberdeen) or ScotRail/VTWC (stations to Fort William) plus a premier Inn would still work out cheaper I would imagine.

For Fort Bill its unique selling point is that it's the only way to do a weekend away there from London with a full day in the hills on the Saturday that doesn't involve driving. Those on a budget will go for the seats and I doubt the price of those will go up much as it's not really any different.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think I'd agree with this - from Glasgow to London (return) it's under £150 for a walk up fare for everything except the first train of the day (around 4.30am) which compares favourably with flight plus airport bus/trains in both cost and time terms - the berth supplement then becomes a slightly more expensive hotel, sure, but one that has great utility.

Where I think CS have messed up is the loss of Sleepers from the other booking sites which just massively complicates booking flexible return journeys - with Virgin I can book an advance single out and they'll sell me an "off peak single online" (or something like that) for the journey back which is half the cost of an off peak return, but that can only be bought when buying the other direction - you can't have the "off peak single online" for a single journey. To take advantage of this, I need to be able to book the sleeper on the same site though. By not allowing this, I have to pay for a full off peak single price (so about £140) one way if I get the sleeper in the other direction.

Book the above, then on the Sleeper site book a room supplement to the Off Peak Single. You can now do that. I think to be honest that's probably the best way to handle what is quite a niche situation rather than overcomplicating all the booking engines to not do Sleepers very well, at least until single-fare pricing comes along and solves it in a stroke (at which point the Sleeper might as well become "global fare", as that kind of model tends to be called in Europe, and be removed entirely from the RSP system).

 

[nat67]

Why should they pitch the prices to suit enthusiasts?

For people that need to travel in one direction or the other it’s actually quite reasonably priced relative to a hotel if you're already in possession of an open ticket.

I could not afford it personally my self at the mo. and they are not as good as Mk2's and Mk3's anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I could not afford it personally my self at the mo. and they are not as good as Mk2's and Mk3's anyway.

They look a lot nicer than Mk2s (which are falling to bits) and Mk3s to me.

You can't lean out of the window, sure, but apart from that?

 

[Darandio]

I could not afford it personally my self at the mo. and they are not as good as Mk2's and Mk3's anyway.

How on earth do you know?

Or is it yet another enthusiast opinion? Like Neil has said, most likely to do with the droplight windows.

 

[nat67]

They look a lot nicer than Mk2s (which are falling to bits) and Mk3s to me.

You can't lean out of the window, sure, but apart from that?

I shall probably feel the benefit a bit more once I have got a TPE set when ever the hell they show up.

 

[nat67]

How on earth do you know?

Or is it yet another enthusiast opinion? Like Neil has said, most likely to do with the droplight windows.

Maybe i'm just a bit of a BR coach type person. Who knows.

 

[Darandio]

Maybe i'm just a bit of a BR coach type person. Who knows.

Probably. Saying they aren't as good as a Mk2 and Mk3 is just your opinion.

 

[nat67]

Probably. Saying they aren't as good as a Mk2 and Mk3 is just your opinion.

True. At least if you are in the sit up's you can get some fairly good sleep now as a lot have already said

 

[Bletchleyite]

True. At least if you are in the sit up's you can get some fairly good sleep now as a lot have already said

You'll probably sleep all the better without the Mk2 brake racket and bouncing and without it being freezing cold in winter and roasting in summer (the unusual air-based heating system in those coaches is utterly useless). At only 75mph (or was it 80?) on the WCML fasts fettled for 125 the ride should be extremely smooth.

 

[jagardner1984]

I really hope these do well, I think the sleeper is a great service and the new stock looks fabulous.

But I Really think they've missed a trick for something like a Room 1-3 fare - where every service has 3 classic rooms available at say £99, released a month in advance (or similar). They could also do a similar fare as a ticket lottery on the day. Again, a very restricted number available, but something which lets them legitimately advertise "from £99" fares and generate a bit of buzz. See every low cost airline ever for details.

If they manage to fill it year round with the exclusive luxury driven passengers they talk about in interviews, good luck to them. If not, sticking to that pricing will be a very expensive method for the Scottish Government to transport air around the country.

 

[haggishunter]

One comment on the photos of the new stock, think it's a mistake to not have a coverable sink / shelf at the bed end in the classic berths. It was a very useful space in the Mk3s. Overall the trains look very good, but think the club car will have a different ambience and atmosphere of the outgoing lounges with the sofas and freestanding furniture, however I do rather like the serrated breakfast bar seating. Looks great for catching up with some stuff on a laptop, having a beer and watching the world go by all at the same time!

 

[BRX]

How on earth do you know?

Or is it yet another enthusiast opinion? Like Neil has said, most likely to do with the droplight windows.

Loss of the droplights is the main thing for me. If it weren't for that I'd be welcoming the new stock more, and would be more likely to use the sleeper in the future.

Maybe that's just an enthusiast thing. I do see other passengers enjoying a bit of fresh air though, and they are good for people who want to take photos. I think CS should have included a couple of small openable windows somewhere. Anyway that argument has been lost; we will travel in a sealed can from now on, and so be it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

One comment on the photos of the new stock, think it's a mistake to not have a coverable sink / shelf at the bed end in the classic berths. It was a very useful space in the Mk3s.

There is a shelf. It stows away when not in use.

they are not as good as Mk2's and Mk3's anyway.

They are far superior to the Mk2 and Mk3 stock. The ride is smoother and the beds themselves are much more comfortable.

Those on a budget will go for the seats and I doubt the price of those will go up much as it's not really any different.

In fact, there is an improvement. Each passenger will now have a pin coded mini safe above their seat, 3-pin and USB charger sockets and the seats themselves are very comfortable. The information screens will also have a British Airways style "moving map" display.

 

[JohnMcL7]

How are bikes carried on the new carriages and how many can they take? I tried booking a couple of dates later in the year but I couldn't book a bike which surprised me.

 

[47271]

How are bikes carried on the new carriages and how many can they take? I tried booking a couple of dates later in the year but I couldn't book a bike which surprised me.

There are bike storage racks in the lockable luggage area of the seated coach. I'm doing this at second hand, but I think six is the answer to your second question. They have to be pre booked.