Caledonian Sleeper

[Iskra]

I have to say i find it extraordinary looking at the tripadvisor reports that if the lounge car has no power then it is closed to people sitting down in broad daylight.
I cannot think of anything that would annoy me more.

( Says he who has been on the Talyllyn on all night running crammed into a tiny compartment with lots of strangers in the complete darkness with a Cocker Spaniel in tow)
Why we cannot be treated as adults instead of babies is anyone's guess.

To be fair, that's the same as if coach lighting fails on a day train- it gets put out of use (as I've seen on XC and LNER HST's). I assume it is to avoid litigation from trips/falls.

 

[Mingulay]

In addition, perhaps all passengers could each be given their very own individual "Bingo" style card that they can complete throughout the journey. This could include things such as the following :-

*Air con too cold
*Air con too hot
*lights not working
*lights on full at inappropriate time
*No lounge car service
*No working toilets
*Randomly stopping for 60+ minutes in the middle of nowhere without any information
*Alarm sounding for no real reason
*Cabin door not opening / locking
*No hot water in shower
*No water in sink
*Wrong room allocated
*No breakfast available
*Later boarding than normal
*Being kicked out of the first class lounge and having to wait on the platform

The winner could perhaps get dropped at the nearest station when they call "Bingo". Even if it is Dalmiur at 4am

The whole thing could be branded as "Caledonian Bingo - Because the whole thing's a gamble of a nighttime"

Given Serco are a contractor on a whole range of public sector services , if Government, UK or Scotland was doing its job , they should make it clear they are barred from any further tenders of public services till they resolve the problems . Sounds like they have mismanaged the project and not employed sufficient staff to cope or provide a decent service to customers . If they cant be trusted to staff a rail service, can they be trusted in Prisons , Defence and other contracts ?

 

[Highlandspring]

I might be mistaken but I'm sure I read a news report a while ago that Serco have been told by the Scottish Government that they won't be eligible to bid again for the Northlink Ferries concession when it comes up for renewal.

 

[Mainliner]

To be fair, that's the same as if coach lighting fails on a day train- it gets put out of use.

Presumably the worst that can then happen, if the train is full, is that some passengers might end up standing in the other coaches.

What would happen if a CS seated coach and lounge were both out of use (which I gather has happened recently), and there weren’t enough spare berths for all seated passengers?

 

[marks87]

Presumably the worst that can then happen, if the train is full, is that some passengers might end up standing in the other coaches.

What would happen if a CS seated coach and lounge were both out of use (which I gather has happened recently), and there weren’t enough spare berths for all seated passengers?

I would imagine the same option given when the whole service is cancelled: coach.

 

[Antman]

I can't believe people think it's acceptable in the twenty first century to be able to do a lot of that testing and troubleshooting with the public.

This is their premium product. It charges handsomely. And it’s clearly not been tested properly. And people expect the paying public to suck it up? Would you accept a Car that did that. No hang on, look at the British motor industry. Transplants and niche. Rolls, Aston and Bentley wouldn’t dare do this any more. And haven’t since the 1970s. TVR is not a role model. We need stuf to work.

The more I see of what is happening to the sleeper, the more. I start to consider that the job here is to make a mess of the service so much that it get canned.

And it’s not just the sleeper. Everywhere with new stock it’s just not working properly out of the box, the infrastructure is late and over budget. It isn’t acceptable to treat your customers this way.

 

[Chrism20]

The more I see of what is happening to the sleeper, the more. I start to consider that the job here is to make a mess of the service so much that it get canned.

If the plan was to can it there would have been a riviera style upgrade to the carriages which would have seen the service through to about 2028/2030 and it would have came to a natural end at that point.

I seriously doubt the amount of money that’s been spent would have been spent with the aim of making a mess of things with a view to canning it.

 

[Antman]

I know. It is crackers. But you look at it and you just shake your head .....

 

[Hadders]

Well considering that as recently as last Tuesday the plan was still to introduce them on the highlander this week so I’d like to think they have all been commissioned by now.

Given that the reasons given for the highlander delay was to improve reliability on the lowlander rather than the trains aren’t ready.

I used the FTW portion a couple of weeks ago and a staff member told me that the MK5s would be coming to the Highlander until September. It might only have been announced last week but it seems Serco were planning it for some time before then.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Is there perchance a “not” missing in the above post?

 

[Ianigsy]

The Caledonian Sleeper is fortunate in that some of its best customers are politicians (who can go straight from the Commons to Euston and be in their constituency in the morning) and high profile media personalities like Kirsty Wark and Susan Calman.

 

[Antman]

Fine. And it’s full of people off to shoot, spend money, ski, do business. But its being hamstrung. We killed our car industry by terrible management, militant unions and substandard products. And we bought Japanese (quite funny given how average the Hitachi 80s seem to be...). And German. Lots of German.

How can it be acceptable to launch a flagship service like this? The public has choices. The sleeper is a discretionary spend. And they are doing best to shoot themselves.

 

[awsnews]

ECS working from Polmadie to Wembley on it's way as well

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O18148/2019/06/30/advanced

Only 140 tonnes trailing load though so may not be the empties to work north tonight?

Fort William working hasn't left yet though according to RTT (as at 1152)

Something did go north eventually but I have no idea what it was, from what I can ascertain Sunday nights service from Fort William was cancelled but the service to Fort William did run. Has this not resulted in 2 sets of something at Fort William for tonight's service?

 

[TimboM]

Something did go north eventually but I have no idea what it was, from what I can ascertain Sunday nights service from Fort William was cancelled but the service to Fort William did run. Has this not resulted in 2 sets of something at Fort William for tonight's service?

Sort of... but the "other" set at FTW that went up later on yesterday is a rake of Mk5s on test/training!!

 

[awsnews]

Sort of... but the "other" set at FTW that went up later on yesterday is a rake of Mk5s on test/training!!

That possibility didn't occur to me, given recent events I wrongly assumed it was related to getting everything back in place.
Possibly another wrong assumption but it looks to be coming back down on Wednesday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I seriously doubt the amount of money that’s been spent would have been spent with the aim of making a mess of things with a view to canning it.

I too doubt it, but if there's not significant improvement that's going to be what ends up happening.

 

[John Bishop]

Reported in another forum that 2 coaches U/S on the northbound Inverness portion on last nights service. Affected guests put onto the Aberdeen portion and bussed from Dundee.

 

[Mingulay]

shocking reports

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attra...iam_Lochaber_Scottish_Highlands_Scotland.html

If the Transport Secretary does not act with eye watering fines on Serco he needs to resign!

If the contract does not allow for that. He should resign along with the Transport secy who did the deal in the first place.

 

[Antman]

Sounds like a lot of very disgruntled and disinterested staff. Odd, given on board staff are usually pretty decent, especially a team that works together all night, like cabin crew.

Those reviews are presumably from the ordinary public. Who are annoyed. Seems the seats issue has made it to the mk5s...

 

[TimboM]

shocking reports

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attra...iam_Lochaber_Scottish_Highlands_Scotland.html

If the Transport Secretary does not act with eye watering fines on Serco he needs to resign!

If the contract does not allow for that. He should resign along with the Transport secy who did the deal in the first place.

Serco are already making c.£25m or more losses this year due to the delay with the Mk5s and those will be increasing with every issue and bad bit of press. So don’t worry they’re being punished. Transport Scotland aren’t though (yet) despite being as culpable as anyone else

As for calling for major fines or resignations on the back of TripAdvisor reports...!!!!???

 

[TimboM]

1S26 (north Lowlander) made an additional stop last night to pick up an elderly gent who had missed his connection and was otherwise stranded. Just thought I’d mention a positive story in case it doesn’t make it on to TripAdvisor.

 

[Butts]

Sounds like a lot of very disgruntled and disinterested staff. Odd, given on board staff are usually pretty decent, especially a team that works together all night, like cabin crew.

Those reviews are presumably from the ordinary public. Who are annoyed. Seems the seats issue has made it to the mk5s...

Do the seats not recline ?

Are they somewhat thinner than their predecessors ?

This sounds like an 800/HST rerun to me.

 

[Antman]

Serco are already making c.£25m or more losses this year due to the delay with the Mk5s and those will be increasing with every issue and bad bit of press. So don’t worry they’re being punished. Transport Scotland aren’t though (yet) despite being as culpable as anyone else

As for calling for major fines or resignations on the back of TripAdvisor reports...!!!!???

The risk is they hand it back. They haven’t taken it on for nothing. Either as a sweetener to be looked on favourably for further procurements, to trial new systems (expensive way to do it!) or they are getting back door supoort to break even.

The contracts will have huge penalties (or should have...) for CAF (assuming the new coaches were a serco choice, not a government imposition), but you have to enforce, the contract should have a contractor notice period (without fault), the KPIs will have teeth (and so serco will be being battered).

If I were Serco management, I’d be looking at how long this is sustainable for. And that’s without the bad press. Who’s going to take on the sleepers if they don’t work properly if they sack this off?

 

[johnr57]

In a nutshell, Overhaul.

If you want more info, read post 2 of https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/train-refurbishment-costs-timelines-etc.148880/

Thank you

This thread continues to provide much useful information, much unrelated to the sleeper - may it and it’s idiosyncrasies continue

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do the seats not recline ?

Are they somewhat thinner than their predecessors ?

This sounds like an 800/HST rerun to me.

It'll always be a matter of opinion. They're the same as the 80x First Class seats. I think I will prefer them to the old ones, but I'm yet to risk going anywhere near it and won't be soon.

 

[swapmeetpete]

Do the seats not recline ?

Are they somewhat thinner than their predecessors ?

This sounds like an 800/HST rerun to me.

The seats do recline, sort of. Instead of the back going down, the squab moves forward, thereby reducing legroom by a vital few inches.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The seats do recline, sort of. Instead of the back going down, the squab moves forward, thereby reducing legroom by a vital few inches.

Exactly the same as the existing ones. This is the best approach, because if you recline you do so into your own legroom and in no way disadvantage anyone else by doing so, unlike on planes where it is a source of endless arguments. If tall you can choose not to recline, rather than having to argue with the person in front as to whether they do or not.

All reclining seats on all transport should work that way, and all railway ones in the UK do without any exception I can think of.

 

[Highlandspring]

I recommend checking out the Premium Economy seats on the Qantas Boeing 787s used for the direct Heathrow to Perth flights for an example of really horrible space stealing reclining.

 

[theironroad]

shocking reports

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attra...iam_Lochaber_Scottish_Highlands_Scotland.html

If the Transport Secretary does not act with eye watering fines on Serco he needs to resign!

If the contract does not allow for that. He should resign along with the Transport secy who did the deal in the first place.

That doesn't look good.

While some of the sleeper customers are regulars, an increasing amount will be the one off tourists wanting that magical hotel on wheels or people going for a special trip like an anniversary etc.

As one of those reviewers (from Australia) said, it's not a good advert for Scottish tourism right now.

The next two months are the peak of the Scottish tourism season and all this couldn't be happening at a worse time really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I recommend checking out the Premium Economy seats on the Qantas Boeing 787s used for the direct Heathrow to Perth flights for an example of really horrible space stealing reclining.

The only "space stealing reclining" is when it reclines into the legroom of the seat behind (yes, I know you're entitled to, but it's a nuisance nonetheless). You want to recline, you use your own legroom to do so. Completely fair.

There may be valid criticisms of the CS seats but that's not one.