Caledonian Sleeper

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Essexman, 10 Jan 2019.

  1. VT 390

    VT 390 Member

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    As it is so late it is not really a problem missing out Queen Street as the next Scot Rail service is not far behind the delayed sleeper.
    Why skip Dundee though as I thought out of all the places on the Aberdeen portion Dundee would have the most passengers?
     
  2. Chrism20

    Chrism20 Established Member

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    It hasn’t skipped Dundee and has encountered traction problems just north or Kirkcaldy by all accounts.

    There are two random timings in RTT and Inverkeillor and Carmont for the Aberdeen service which may have confused some people and lead them to believe the service was further north than it actually was.
     
  3. Morayshire

    Morayshire Member

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    I would count being rescued by a 37 as lucky but I imagine a lot of other people especially the passengers on board would disagree with that.
     
  4. Kendalian

    Kendalian Member

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    Looks like it's still stuck there?

    Total silence from CS about the delays since they posted 6 hours ago about the signal issue.

    Bound to be problems tonight southbound due to the late arrivals.

    Turning into Black Friday MkII :rolleyes:
     
  5. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Thursday night is one not to muck up - it'll be the busiest night for business travellers, given that the usual "weekly commute" pattern these days is Mon-Thurs in the office and Fri at home.
     
  6. Chrism20

    Chrism20 Established Member

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    Made all the worse by the fact that tonight it will be “Away” crews all returning to their own bases in the morning.

    From a purely selfish viewpoint having being caught up in the chaos of Black Friday MkI I’m glad I have an appointment with my own bed tonight.
     
  7. mralexn

    mralexn Member

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    Silly question, but how long do crews need for their rest period?, I always thought it was 12 hours from sign off to sign on but that wouldn't work very well, especially on the Fort William run.
     
  8. RLBH

    RLBH Member

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    Don't know what it is in the railway world, but for the rest of us (office drones, ditch diggers, shelf stackers - whatever) it's supposed to be 11 hours. Hard to imagine the railway being less stringent than the Working Time Directive.
     
  9. Kendalian

    Kendalian Member

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    The FW portion is due in at 1357 240 late. It was held at Rannoch nearly an hour waiting for the southbound ScotRail service.

    The Aberdeen portion has just made it into Dundee a mere 452 late. Words fail me....
     
  10. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Is anyone still on board either of them or have they switched to ScotRail services so they arrive...today?
     
  11. Chrism20

    Chrism20 Established Member

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    Not many options for the Fort William passengers other than to soldier on due to the frequency of SR services being low.

    I’m guessing the Aberdeen passengers will be transferred into a ScotRail service at Dundee if there are loco problems. There is a CS lounge in Dundee these days so hopefully they are kept comfortable whilst waiting.

    Tonight will probably be challenging for the highlander as a result.
     
  12. MrEd

    MrEd Member

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    I believe that the minimum rest period between shifts for sleeper hosts and team leaders (I.e. the non-safety-critical sleeper staff) is 9 hours. This makes it very tight for the one London-based host coming back from Fort William southbound on Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights if the inbound working is late. However, the Fort William portion should, if fully staffed, have a Fort William based team leader and a Fort William based host looking after coaches D and E (with the London host looking after F and G on a Friday morning northbound and southbound). If the northbound is late on a Monday, Wednesday or Friday morning, and is already seriously late at Edinburgh, it has been known for the London host to leave at either Edinburgh or Glasgow Queen Street, with the London host lodging in either Edinburgh or Glasgow and leaving the two Fort William crew to carry on alone back to base. Then the southbound will be worked by a fresh Fort William crew as far as Edinburgh, with the London host meeting the train there after midnight. This happened on a Monday of severe delays at the end of April, and this usually solves the problem of crew hours.

    However, if there are not enough fresh hosts at Fort William to work the southbound, there will still be problems. Also, when the southbound was last cancelled due to crew rest hours after the air leak near Tulloch in June, it was the case that the London host had no opportunity to leave the train and had to stay on until arrival in Fort William at just before 14:00, leaving him in no fit state to work the southbound train at all. There also may not have been enough fresh crew at Fort William, hence there was no option but cancellation.

    I would probably be more worried about the Aberdeen portion southbound tonight, as this has to be worked by two London hosts and a London team leader, who will need a full nine hours’ rest before booking on again. It will either leave very late or be cancelled, unless a contingency crew can be found (and CS do not have many spare hosts and team leaders at this point in time).
     
  13. MrEd

    MrEd Member

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    If RTT is reliable and 1A25 arrives in Aberdeen at 15:00, my guess is that the southbound Aberdeen portion (1B16) will not be able to leave until well past midnight tonight (assuming the London hosts and team leader are still on board- I presume they would have to be) if it is not cancelled outright, unless a contingency crew can be found. 1M16 may similarly be around an hour down leaving Inverness, I think, but should run, and 1B01 will depend on the availability of sufficient crew at the Fort William end. I’ll be interested to see how CS deal with this, but I’d be prepared for disruption.
     
  14. MrEd

    MrEd Member

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    Don’t know about the Aberdeen portion, which arrived at 15:02 (an impressive lie-in!) but the Fort William portion would still have had all its passengers, as there would have been no opportunity for them to change onto a convenient Scotrail service. The 08:21 Glasgow QS-Mallaig left both Dalmuir and Dumbarton before the sleeper this morning, leaving no interchange opportunity (as sometimes happens when 1Y11 runs late- 1Y11 is looped at Craigendoran or somewhere and passengers are given the option of changing onto the northbound Sprinter at Dumbarton if they want to get to Fort William faster, although normally it still completes its journey as a Class 1 with the hosts and train manager on board, so I don’t think passengers are ever forced to change onto the Sprinter in these circumstances if they’d rather enjoy the lounge car and free refreshments/more sleep).
     
    Last edited: 12 Jul 2019
  15. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    There's no time advantage to turfing the Aberdeen passengers off at Dundee to catch the next ScotRail service as it followed the sleepers all the way to Aberdeen anyway. Once you're seven and a half hours late I suppose you're more or less beyond caring.
     
  16. _toommm_

    _toommm_ Established Member

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    If it was 9 hours, the unions would snap CS's hand off - 11 hours minimum in the Working Time Directive.
     
  17. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    9 hours is a standard railway figure for rest between non-safety-critical duties. How TOCs get away with this is anyone's guess - there are exceptions to the WTD, but it's more an issue of extreme fatigue in practice.
     
  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Do people opt out of the WTD as standard on the railway? Surprised the unions go for that. I'm opted out, but the company doesn't take the mick so I see no need to be in it for me.
     
  19. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    There's no need for personal opt-outs (I think Unions would very much protest if people were asked to!)

    The rest break provisions in the WTD don't apply to jobs needing long distance travel. (Driving is separately controlled)
     
  20. Kendalian

    Kendalian Member

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    Fort William boarding due to start at 1920; still nothing from CS as to whether any of the portions are affected tonight.
    Actually total silence from CS about what's running since 11 hours ago. Have they given up trying to explain away yet another shambles?
     
  21. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    The information I have is that all three Down Highlander portions are expected to be right time departures as traincrew have been shuffled about to achieve this.
     
  22. MrEd

    MrEd Member

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    Don’t you mean up (I.e. southbound) Highlander, i.e. 1M16, 1B16 and 1B01? The down/northbound Highlander (1S25) should of course leave Euston on time (with the Scottish crew who came into London in the morning) as I don’t think the inbound working for this was delayed into Euston this morning.

    Presumably some fresh crews will be found for the southbound portions in Scotland, so that they can leave on time?
     
  23. MrEd

    MrEd Member

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    I think ordinarily that would be true, but I think there must be an agreement regarding the London-based host who works Fort William coaches F and G throughout. Even if the inbound 1Y11 was on time arriving at 09:55, that would still only leave them with nine hours max before they needed to book on again to work 1B01 back south.
     
  24. Struner

    Struner Member

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    Depends on where you stand I suppose ;)
     
  25. HamworthyGoods

    HamworthyGoods Member

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    Railway lines generally ‘up’ to London
     
  26. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    Typed down but meant up. The perils of trying to do three things at once.
     
  27. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    By the time it past Shap it was a little over 70 late. Most of the delay was due to the signal issue at Penrith, so it was most an NR shambles.
     
  28. Kendalian

    Kendalian Member

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    Aberdeen portion’s subsequent 4 hour delay wasn’t NR’s issue!
     
  29. Struner

    Struner Member

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    whatever :E
     
  30. side effect

    side effect Member

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    Inverness to Euston delayed.
     

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