Caledonian Sleeper

[Bletchleyite]

Saw a union circular saying the Rail Gourmet contract with Cakedonian Sleeper is transfering to Newrest.
Could this affect/improve things?

Given the specialist nature of CS I'm really surprised it's not in-house.

 

[ashkeba]

Saw a union circular saying the Rail Gourmet contract with Cakedonian Sleeper is transfering to Newrest.
Could this affect/improve things?

Are you hoping for better cakes on it?

 

[6Z09]

Are you hoping for better cakes on it?

The Muffins are very good at present

 

[Audioguy]

I might just get Deliveroo to meet me at Preston station (I would if there weren't ticket barriers!).

At 01:00 in Preston most nights will probably be a choice of a kebab or McDonalds!

 

[matacaster]

Thank god its not run by Virgin, Tricky Dicky would probably have Gregs vegan sausage rolls in First Class.

 

[Mingulay]

It is marketed as a hotel type experience. It has a buffet car. They get a golden opportunity to design a catering facility in a new train. If you don’t design a buffet car that can deliver a quick reliable consistent food and drink offer then it’s a staggering failure

Planes can do it in a more confined space. Trains have being doing it for years. With new food packaging and heating technology and the ability to re stock en route there is zero excuse other than incompetence or just indifference by management. There are plenty of operators like Pret who operate from confined spaces in stations and produce quality fresh food. Hook up with them and you are half way there . They are on site in stations almost 24 hours a day in food prep if not actually trading.

This boils down to not caring about the passenger in the main . Serco need brought to heel!

 

[trebor79]

I've said before that people like Pret and Leon do really decent food from really small kitchens. Far better than anything you get on a train these days with the possible exception of GWR Pullman dining and the Cardiff Holyhead Gerald.
It's amazing to me that none of the long distance TOCs have partnered with the likes of these companies to do their on board catering.

 

[alistairlees]

I've said before that people like Pret and Leon do really decent food from really small kitchens. Far better than anything you get on a train these days with the possible exception of GWR Pullman dining and the Cardiff Holyhead Gerald.
It's amazing to me that none of the long distance TOCs have partnered with the likes of these companies to do their on board catering.

Considering that Swiss Railways (SBB) have done exactly that, this would actually make a good new thread for discussion.

 

[bastien]

I just had a look at the Caledonian menu, talk about an explosion in an adjective factory! No wonder they can't cope, there's just too many different things to carry.
Here's what to do: Stop pretending it's the Raffles hotel, when it's really an Ibis Budget on wheels. Accordingly, cut the food offering down to Haggis, vegetarian Haggis, and something for people who don't like Haggis.

 

[alistairlees]

It's truly a failure of customer service and management and imagination to run out of anything in a catering environment in a known set of circumstances. You board a long haul flight with very limited space for catering but they do it day in day out. No excuse not to have ice as I often found in the bar. If new rolling stock has been designed with insufficient capacity to store and prepare enough food of every offer from start to finish then the design is a failure . Catering should be a highlight of rail travel if not essential on a long journey by train. It's such a token effort to have a lottery of choice. If it's not properly staffed and stocked it's a failure . This is not rocket science to be able to consistently deliver a catering offer. Can't say reading any of this thread would tempt me back on the sleeper now. Once again in the rail industry fails to clear the lowest of hurdles after delays and hype of better things to come. Makes you wonder if anyone in Serco or TS has any idea how to run or procure any rail service. To think Serco are trusted to run prisons! Perhaps passengers should just be locked in their cabins at the start of their journey and released at the end. Catering could be some gruel passed thru a hatch in the cell door by the on board warden . "Lights out " .

I don’t think any of the assertions you make on this post are correct or based on fact though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Here's what to do: Stop pretending it's the Raffles hotel, when it's really an Ibis Budget on wheels.

It's not really that, it's a bit more one of those millennial-aimed small-room, high-service type hotels like the Premier Inn Hub or something. The prices aren't in line with the Ibis Budget end other than the seats.

 

[bastien]

It's not really that, it's a bit more one of those millennial-aimed small-room, high-service type hotels like the Premier Inn Hub or something. The prices aren't in line with the Ibis Budget end other than the seats.

They were back in the Bargain Berths days. Sigh!

 

[GrimShady]

Going on Bletchleyite's post about the extra seated coach, why were these things designed as unpowered multiple units?

 

[Chrism20]

Is there widespread reports of there being chronic stock shortages and/or poor quality food on Caledonian Sleeper? Or are we just getting whipped up into a frenzy because someone said you might not get haggis if you board at Crewe at midnight one night?

We are well on our way to 4,000 posts in this thread and there hasn't been much mention, if any of stocks continually being exhausted or the quality being poor nor are there many posts about poor quality food. The Highland Breakfast seems to draw the most criticism and having tried it I understand why, however most of the posts on here have been quite complementary about CS's food offering and they certainly seem to get fairly regular compliments about the food on social media whilst there certainly isn't widespread complaints about it being rubbish.

Signing up high street names and partnering with celebrity chefs etc comes at serious expense and there is no guarantee that it will be a success (James Martin only helped VTEC/LNERs complaints go through the roof from what I understand) furthermore high street and station retailers are as likely to run out of stuff as CS are. High street retailers may be able to make good stuff in small places but they usually have decent sized storage places to keep all the ingredients etc until they are needed in the kitchen. It is simply unfair on CS to compare the two.

Yes they could team up with another retailer and get more stock enroute. The principal stations that CS call at/originate at are Inverness, Aberdeen, Fort William, Dundee, Perth, Stirling, Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Central, Glasgow Queen Street, Carlisle, Preston, Crewe, London Euston. The only retailer that all these stations have in common with each other AFAIK is WH Smith which hardly the retailer of choice unless you want bag of Haribo and a packet of salt & vinegar. The four most likely restocking stations are Edinburgh, Carlisle, Preston and Crewe. With the exception of Edinburgh none of the other three exactly have and enticing range of eateries that CS could team up with. It's simply not as easy as ringing up the next station and saying chuck us another half dozen portions of X, Y and Z.

 

[Struner]

[...]
Here's what to do: Stop pretending it's the Raffles hotel, when it's really an Ibis Budget on wheels. Accordingly, cut the food offering down to Haggis, vegetarian Haggis, and something for people who don't like Haggis.

well, there is vegetarian (vegan even?) haggis for the people who don't like haggis.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes they could team up with another retailer and get more stock enroute. The principal stations that CS call at/originate at are Inverness, Aberdeen, Fort William, Dundee, Perth, Stirling, Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Central, Glasgow Queen Street, Carlisle, Preston, Crewe, London Euston. The only retailer that all these stations have in common with each other AFAIK is WH Smith which hardly the retailer of choice unless you want bag of Haribo and a packet of salt & vinegar. The four most likely restocking stations are Edinburgh, Carlisle, Preston and Crewe. With the exception of Edinburgh none of the other three exactly have and enticing range of eateries that CS could team up with. It's simply not as easy as ringing up the next station and saying chuck us another half dozen portions of X, Y and Z.

They don't need to team up with another retailer - they could have their own provision.

 

[mark-h]

Saw a union circular saying the Rail Gourmet contract with Cakedonian Sleeper is transfering to Newrest.
Could this affect/improve things?

According to the Newrest Website this started last November

Newrest United Kingdom has started a new contract with Caledonian Sleeper
In November, teams of Newrest United Kingdom have started providing main menu items for Caledonian Sleeper night trains.

This new collaboration with Newrest United Kingdom is a big step forward for Serco (one of the world’s largest public service providers for governments) as it marks the departure of the long-standing supplier. The Caledonian Sleepers are night trains that connect Scotland to London. The menu and solution teams are currently working on makes it possible to switch from a frozen product to a fresh product. This is a decisive step for the service, and once the teams are installed, the production will be about 800 meals a day.

So it seems that the food is/was frozen at some point in the supply chain.

 

[alangla]

Wonder what the per-seat cost is of a typical business class airline meal. That plus a stronger emphasis on pre-ordering might be a possible route to a decent food offering.

 

[Chrism20]

They don't need to team up with another retailer - they could have their own provision.

That was in reference to suggestions of teaming up with the likes of Pret/Leon etc. I'm having issues with quotes on my phone, should have been clearer - apols.

Is there any evidence though that the current system they have in place isn't working? This all seems to have kicked off because someone said you might not get haggis at Crewe. Realistically the first reasonable restocking point for these services is going to be Edinburgh (poss Perth on the Inverness service) heading south and Crewe heading north. By that time both trains have been running for hours and its approaching or past midnight and the majority of passengers will be in bed in which case you are looking at setting up remote restocking facilities for potentially small numbers of items on possibly only a few occasions per week/month etc.

Is it really worth the hassle for a £9 bowl of haggis?

 

[Jocques]

Yes, it is.



The only place you'll get it for under a hundred quid is in the seats.



Preston station does not have ticket barriers.

Er...my berth cost me £92.40. If my calculations are correct, that's under £100...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Er...my berth cost me £92.40. If my calculations are correct, that's under £100...

You've done well there, only one or two at that price.

Unless you're in a twin, in which case £180+ is definitely 4* hotel territory.

 

[trebor79]

Actually I really enjoyed the eggs royale I had for breakfast in April. Nicely poached eggs, quality toast, decent helping of smoked salmon and the hollandaise (always tricky) was smooth and had a nice flavour.
Didn't have an evening meal as who wants to eat haggis at 11pm anyway? Especially as I was already stuffed from an excellent meal at Rogano in Glasgow.

 

[Leisurefirst]

That's extremely poor. What's the point in booking and paying for a meal in advance where you don't know if you'll get it?

Indeed!
The (first class) tickets and meal were booked long in advance with no choice available and I popped in CS HQ reception to ask in the days before as we were in Inverness to ask if I could book our choice and lovely though the receptionist was still told no as "they don't know what they're going to get" or something.
(Even though the menu is on the website).

 

[island]

It is marketed as a hotel type experience. It has a buffet car. They get a golden opportunity to design a catering facility in a new train. If you don’t design a buffet car that can deliver a quick reliable consistent food and drink offer then it’s a staggering failure

Planes can do it in a more confined space. Trains have being doing it for years. With new food packaging and heating technology and the ability to re stock en route there is zero excuse other than incompetence or just indifference by management. There are plenty of operators like Pret who operate from confined spaces in stations and produce quality fresh food. Hook up with them and you are half way there . They are on site in stations almost 24 hours a day in food prep if not actually trading.

This boils down to not caring about the passenger in the main . Serco need brought to heel!

Precisely. It can be done, there just isn’t the will. Back when I lived in Ireland I had many an excellent breakfast or dinner on the Citygold service between Cork and Heuston, with a large queue for the dining car, everything cooked from scratch in a galley kitchen on Mark 3 stock, a steward – employed in-house – who memorised 32 orders and delivered everything precisely correctly, a laden tray on each hand on the 90mph train, without spilling as much as a drop of tea. We will overlook that adding a lamb chop and a bowl of chips to the Irish breakfast gave the mixed grill at dinnertime.

Come 2007 and the service gets contracted out to Railgourmet who cut standards to ribbons and have missing staff too often for the service to be reliable. Pax don’t take the chance of going hungry and buy something at the station. Vicious circle.

 

[Gonzoiku]

AIRC CS were claiming to use local 'artisan' suppliers around Inverness to supply the Highlander.

Saw a union circular saying the Rail Gourmet contract with Cakedonian Sleeper is transfering to Newrest.
Could this affect/improve things?

At the start of the Serco franchise, they did indeed boast of local suppliers. The supplier gave CS the elbow last October (+/-) because, as I understand from local sources, they couldn't cope with being messed about so much,despite the loss of the contract almost killing the company. It looks like the replacement lasted not long!

GZ

 

[47271]

At the start of the Serco franchise, they did indeed boast of local suppliers. The supplier gave CS the elbow last October (+/-) because, as I understand from local sources, they couldn't cope with being messed about so much,despite the loss of the contract almost killing the company. It looks like the replacement lasted not long!

GZ

I'm sure that what say about the contract is true, but there are still some local suppliers though - if you download the Highlander menu there's quite a few mentioned.

Comment from my main regular traveller contacts on the Highlander is that the food is the least of their worries at the moment, it's far better than 90% of what's served on the rest of the rail network, and that the lounge running out of stock is pretty rare.

 

[MrEd]

Is there widespread reports of there being chronic stock shortages and/or poor quality food on Caledonian Sleeper? Or are we just getting whipped up into a frenzy because someone said you might not get haggis if you board at Crewe at midnight one night?

We are well on our way to 4,000 posts in this thread and there hasn't been much mention, if any of stocks continually being exhausted or the quality being poor nor are there many posts about poor quality food. The Highland Breakfast seems to draw the most criticism and having tried it I understand why, however most of the posts on here have been quite complementary about CS's food offering and they certainly seem to get fairly regular compliments about the food on social media whilst there certainly isn't widespread complaints about it being rubbish.

Signing up high street names and partnering with celebrity chefs etc comes at serious expense and there is no guarantee that it will be a success (James Martin only helped VTEC/LNERs complaints go through the roof from what I understand) furthermore high street and station retailers are as likely to run out of stuff as CS are. High street retailers may be able to make good stuff in small places but they usually have decent sized storage places to keep all the ingredients etc until they are needed in the kitchen. It is simply unfair on CS to compare the two.

Yes they could team up with another retailer and get more stock enroute. The principal stations that CS call at/originate at are Inverness, Aberdeen, Fort William, Dundee, Perth, Stirling, Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Central, Glasgow Queen Street, Carlisle, Preston, Crewe, London Euston. The only retailer that all these stations have in common with each other AFAIK is WH Smith which hardly the retailer of choice unless you want bag of Haribo and a packet of salt & vinegar. The four most likely restocking stations are Edinburgh, Carlisle, Preston and Crewe. With the exception of Edinburgh none of the other three exactly have and enticing range of eateries that CS could team up with. It's simply not as easy as ringing up the next station and saying chuck us another half dozen portions of X, Y and Z.

CS food is in the main excellent, and the non-availability of haggis by the time the train reaches Crewe is probably the least of anyone’s worries. It’s probably some of the best food currently offered on service trains on the UK network, and I don’t have any problems with quality or menu choice; I think that the current menu offers excellent choice (by the standards of on-train catering, and particularly when compared with an LNER or Virgin at-seat menu); the haggis seems to run out quickest of all the hot meals (as it did in First Group days, when it often ran out well before Crewe), but there are some other decent hot dishes on there which are worth trying. Generally CS have done well to choose dishes which microwave well; whether they will be more adventurous in their offering once Mk5s (which have much bigger and better equipped kitchens, with facilities to prepare some items from fresh I think) are introduced on all routes remains to be seen. I generally find the standard of food to have improved considerably since First Group days, when the lounge food was mostly ‘cheap and cheerful’ (though still perfectly nice).

 

[MrEd]

I just had a look at the Caledonian menu, talk about an explosion in an adjective factory! No wonder they can't cope, there's just too many different things to carry.
Here's what to do: Stop pretending it's the Raffles hotel, when it's really an Ibis Budget on wheels. Accordingly, cut the food offering down to Haggis, vegetarian Haggis, and something for people who don't like Haggis.

I don’t think there’s any need to make the menu that restrictive, as that may make the lounge car service unattractive. Certainly there was good choice in First Group days and most dishes were reliably available, except that on busy nights the haggis was probably all gone by 11pm. From memory, the First Group meal choices back in 2013-14 were haggis, lasagne, pasta with tomato sauce, chicken curry, chilli con carne or beef stew, with soup or pate as a starter and a particularly nice lemon sponge with custard as the dessert (for a very short time in late 2013, they also offered a chocolate sponge and custard, which I was lucky to try on two occasions). The menu has been gentrified quite considerably, with higher prices to match Serco’s more ‘high-end’ offering, but the concept remains relatively unchanged (after all, until the Highlander goes over to Mk5s, it is restricted to what can be produced from a Mk2 kitchen).

I do think, though, that the First Group-era lemon sponge and custard should be brought back I’m not sure who made it but it was amazing! Perhaps it is not high-end enough for the current target market but it was a fantastic pud nonetheless, and it would bring back some happy memories of the ‘old’ sleeper Occasionally I do miss the old ‘comfort food’ of the First Group era, but CS are probably going in the right direction and have a clear target market in mind.

 

[6Z09]

States staff involved will be subject to TUPE transfer end of August 2019,is this a further change?

 

[bigmoose]

Near-flawless journey last night/this morning from Glasgow to London. Aircon working nicely when I boarded, albeit it did get warmer at times overnight. Hot water at sink. On time, even arrived early like the Mk3s used to. Club car almost empty, good service. Hangers in rooms now!! Hurrah!

Minor niggles - lights flashed on briefly when joining the Edinburgh portion at Carstairs; and shower was still a bit bracing, though not stone cold this time.

Definitely improving, overall very good and a big step up from the Mk3 stock.