Caledonian Sleeper

_toommm_

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This may be pedantry, but the NRCoC was superseded by the NRCoT. The NRCoT generally affords you more rights with split ticketing IIRC so if you did mention it please mention the NRCoT so as to avoid any additional conflict.

Either way, I doubt ScotRail will kick up a fuss, especially when they're used to it with the Sleeper...
 
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R

RailUK Forums

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This may be pedantry, but the NRCoC was superseded by the NRCoT. The NRCoT generally affords you more rights with split ticketing IIRC so if you did mention it please mention the NRCoT so as to avoid any additional conflict.

Either way, I doubt ScotRail will kick up a fuss, especially when they're used to it with the Sleeper...
Ha ha, sorry! I do like trains, but I must admit sometimes a lot of the jargon, headcodes, abbreviations, etc. do go over my head!
 

paul1609

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From my experience Scotrail Staff generally in the highlands appreciate the benefit that the independant rail operators have to the "service trains" through tourist traffic. I had a friendly discussion with a Mallaig guard on a Scotrail service in the summer. The train was fairly well loaded with additionally 2 coach parties doing a cheapskate Jacobite Experience. He was making bilingual manual announcements at each station plus special highlight announcements at attractions like Glenfinnan Viaduct. he reckoned that perhaps 2/3s of the revenue on the service was on the back of the West Coast service and the publicity it attracted and that this was providing massive security for the social service and his job.
 

Roger B

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I visited Euston Friday evening / Saturday morning and noted:

Friday

On the Highlander – 92033, (Inverness), 15330, 15331, 15332, 15314, 15205, 15105, 15006, 15206, (Fort William), 15304, 15303, 15307, (Aberdeen), 15308, 15201, 15101, 15004, with 92038 on ECS.

On the Lowlander – 92038, (Glasgow), 15209, 15329, 15325, 15324, 15316, 15203, 15106, 15008, (Edinburgh) 15309, 15319, 15320, 15318, 15204, 15108, 15009, with 92010 on ECS.

Saturday

On the Highlander – 92018, 15010, 15107, 15210, 15334, 15305, 15327, 15335, 15315, 15003, 15109, 15007, 15323, 15321, 15317, 15310.

On the Lowlander – 92028, 15002, 15110, 15212, 15339, 15326, 15211, 15005, 15103. 15202, 15311, 15312, 15313, 15322, 15306, with 92010 on ECS.

Does anyone know how frequently the formations change? Do CS try to rotate coached regularly, eg to ensure all carriages have roughly equivalent mileages to simplify maintenance schedules, or are changes made on more of an ad hoc basis? TIA
 
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I visited Euston Friday evening / Saturday morning and noted:

Friday

On the Highlander – 92033, (Inverness), 15330, 15331, 15332, 15314, 15205, 15105, 15006, 15206, (Fort William), 15304, 15303, 15307, (Aberdeen), 15308, 15201, 15101, 15004, with 92038 on ECS.

On the Lowlander – 92038, (Glasgow), 15209, 15329, 15325, 15324, 15316, 15203, 15106, 15008, (Edinburgh) 15309, 15319, 15320, 15318, 15204, 15108, 15009, with 92010 on ECS.

Saturday

On the Highlander – 92018, 15010, 15107, 15210, 15334, 15305, 15327, 15335, 15315, 15003, 15109, 15007, 15323, 15321, 15317, 15310.

On the Lowlander – 92028, 15002, 15110, 15212, 15339, 15326, 15211, 15005, 15103. 15202, 15311, 15312, 15313, 15322, 15306, with 92010 on ECS.

Does anyone know how frequently the formations change? Do CS try to rotate coached regularly, eg to ensure all carriages have roughly equivalent mileages to simplify maintenance schedules, or are changes made on more of an ad hoc basis? TIA


Many thanks for showing the formations, much appreciated.
Think you'll find that the up Lowlander makes the down Highlander and v.v.

HTH
 

JonathanH

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So, comparing the formations you have reported with information collated around 14 October, there is not really much change but a number of sleeping cars missing.

15002 and 15110 have gone into CS08 instead of 15011 and 15102. 15006 has replaced 15007 in CS04 and there are a number of missing coaches. One of 15001, 15007 and 15011 will be on the Fort William portion. It doesn't look like any of the 'spare' / 'CS09' sleeping coaches have gone into any of the other sets. Were CS04 and CS08 really only six coaches? 15340 was suggested as the coach involved in the shunting mishap at Fort William this week.

CS01 14-Oct 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 08-Nov 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206

CS02 14-Oct 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 08-Nov 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306

CS03 14-Oct 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 08-Nov 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209

CS04 14-Oct 15007-15105-15205-15314-15333-15332-15331-15330
>>>> 08-Nov 15006-15105-15205-15314-____-15332-15331-15330

CS05 14-Oct 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 08-Nov 15009-15108-15204-15318-_____-15320-15319-15309

CS06 14-Oct 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 08-Nov 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-_____

CS07 14-Oct 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 08-Nov 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315

CS08 14-Oct 15011-15102-15212-15339-15338-15340-15326-15211
>>>> 08-Nov 15002-15110-15212-15339-_____-_____-15326-15211

FTW 14-Oct 15006-15104

Spare 14-Oct 15001,15002,15110,15213,15214,15301,15302,15336,15337
 
Last edited:

Peter Sarf

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I visited Euston Friday evening / Saturday morning and noted:

Friday

On the Highlander – 92033, (Inverness), 153xx, 15330, 15331, 15332, 15314, 15205, 15105, 15006, 15206, (Fort William), 15304, 15303, 15307, (Aberdeen), 15308, 15201, 15101, 15004, with 92038 on ECS.

On the Lowlander – 92038, (Glasgow), 15209, 15329, 15325, 15324, 15316, 15203, 15106, 15008, (Edinburgh) 153xx 15309, 15319, 15320, 15318, 15204, 15108, 15009, with 92010 on ECS.

Saturday

On the Highlander – 92018, 15010, 15107, 15210, 15334, 15305, 15327, 15335, 15315, 15003, 15109, 15007, 15323, 15321, 15317, 15310, 152xx.

On the Lowlander – 92028, 15002, 15110, 15212, 15339, 15326, 153xx, 153xx, 15211, 15005, 15103. 15202, 15311, 15312, 15313, 15322, 15306, with 92010 on ECS.

Does anyone know how frequently the formations change? Do CS try to rotate coached regularly, eg to ensure all carriages have roughly equivalent mileages to simplify maintenance schedules, or are changes made on more of an ad hoc basis? TIA
I believe that every day (or Sat+Sun at the weekend) Wembley swaps the Highlander and Lowlander over.

I note from your observations short formations. As far as I want to believe there should be 16 in each train, not 15, 15, 15 & 14 respectively !.

I have highlighted the quirks/missing coaches in darkish green.
15206 should probably be in the Fortwilliam portion and thus I think it likely that 15307 deserves to be in the Abardeen portion ?.
15007 should possibly be 152xx.
But its possibly me trying for a pattern that never exists OR has failed due to reality !.

Normal formation is :-
150xx, 151xx, 152xx, 153xx, 153xx, 153xx, 153xx, 153xx,
150xx, 151xx, 152xx, 153xx, 153xx, 153xx, 153xx, 152xx.
Note the extra 152xx at the end of the second (half set) and that is supposed to be the Fort William end of the half set aiui. So it denotes the half set that splits in er half (maybe the same number of 153xx in each) !. The FW portion gets two day coaches added for the trip North of Edinburgh.

Very happy to be corrected on the above (theory) btw.

Thanks very much for reporting the formations though.
 
Last edited:

jopsuk

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I was on the northbound lowlander Friday night- nice trains, except for the persistant rattle from within the inter-cabin door that made sleep less than restful.
 

47271

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It always used to be the case that just about everything in the welcome kits - socks, earplugs, flannel, etc - would be wedged in rattly gaps in the mk3s.

Unfortunately it'll take more than a piece of paper or pair of socks to silence the knocking bogies on the mk5s.
 

35B

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It always used to be the case that just about everything in the welcome kits - socks, earplugs, flannel, etc - would be wedged in rattly gaps in the mk3s.

Unfortunately it'll take more than a piece of paper or pair of socks to silence the knocking bogies on the mk5s.
I travelled last week, and found the bogie noise much less intrusive than on the Mk3s.
 

47271

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Make that at least two
In which case whatever is causing that infernal rattling, and it's kept me awake, is a problem with individual vehicles and not across the fleet. Which means that it might be fixed quite easily.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying that mk5s are noisier than mk3s, it's a different sort of noise. The problem is though that the knocking from below reported by so many is sharper than the gangway wheezing that was the main sin of the old stock. The awful forward and back jiggling of the mk3s tended only to occur at lower speeds.
 

Deafdoggie

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There’s a MK3 on a low loader parked at J16 of the M6 at the moment. It’s dark and I was driving so couldn’t see number I’m afraid.
 
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TOURIST STANDARD OPEN MARK 2F
5952/65/76/87: Longtown MoD
6137/76/77/83: Longtown MoD

RLB (RESTUARANT LOUNGE BUFFET FIRST MARK 2F)
6701: Brodies, Kilmarnock
6702/05: Wembley
6704/07: Ferme Park
6708: Crewe Gresty Lane

BUO (BRAKE UNCLASSIFIED OPEN MARK 2E)
9800: Polmadie
9801/04: Wembley
9802/05/07/10: Ferme Park

SLEP (SLEEPER WITH PANTRY MARK 3A)
10501/02/04/13/20/29/31/43/44/65/97/98/600/607/610/614: Ferme Park
10519/51/53 : Wembley
10522/26/27/42/61/605: Long Marston

SLE/@SLED (SLEEPER MARK 3A)
@10648/@50/@66/75/88/93:Ferme Park
@10680/@722: Long Marston
10683/@89/90/@99/703/@706/@718: Wembley

This is an Incomplete list, feel free to reply with updates when any changes happen.
 

Bald Rick

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In which case whatever is causing that infernal rattling, and it's kept me awake, is a problem with individual vehicles and not across the fleet. Which means that it might be fixed quite easily.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying that mk5s are noisier than mk3s, it's a different sort of noise. The problem is though that the knocking from below reported by so many is sharper than the gangway wheezing that was the main sin of the old stock. The awful forward and back jiggling of the mk3s tended only to occur at lower speeds.
Both my trips I had were right over the bogies, and didn’t notice it at all.
 

John Bishop

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Both my trips I had were right over the bogies, and didn’t notice it at all.
Really?!
You must be a deep sleeper, as in future I will go out of my way to get a berth away from the bogies.
I also found the brake noise to be unusually loud as well.

I was genuinely very surprised at how noisy the bogies were on the new stock!
 

Bald Rick

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Really?!
You must be a deep sleeper, as in future I will go out of my way to get a berth away from the bogies.
I also found the brake noise to be unusually loud as well.

I was genuinely very surprised at how noisy the bogies were on the new stock!
Sadly, not a deep sleeper on the sleeper. I was waking up whenever we braked, partly due to the change in forward acceleration, and partly due to the brake noise. But I didn’t get anything from the bogies.
 

35B

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In which case whatever is causing that infernal rattling, and it's kept me awake, is a problem with individual vehicles and not across the fleet. Which means that it might be fixed quite easily.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying that mk5s are noisier than mk3s, it's a different sort of noise. The problem is though that the knocking from below reported by so many is sharper than the gangway wheezing that was the main sin of the old stock. The awful forward and back jiggling of the mk3s tended only to occur at lower speeds.
I can perfectly well believe that; my experience was perfectly acceptable and I managed to sleep uninterrupted from somewhere round Falkirk till my alarm woke me near Nuneaton. The northbound journey was less good, but that had nothing to do with the stock and everything to do with my own over indulgence!
 

Mainliner

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The latest Tripadvisor review includes this comment: “We had no hot water evening or morning which somewhat defeated the object of having a private shower.”

Indeed - and as long as these reports continue I won’t be using the service and paying the large premium for something that too often isn’t delivered.
 

Chrism20

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On the subject of the rattling.
I’ve had a couple of trips over the last fortnight. Southbound from Aberdeen I was in B1 which is the PRM room with the double bed due to an issue with the initial berth. I didn’t notice any particular/prolonged rattling etc and slept for a good 6/6.5 hours. One thing I did notice though before nodding off and again in the morning once awake was Susan Calman loudly announcing the toilet door was opening/closing/locked which was rather annoying.

Northbound on Friday back to Aberdeen I got the booked room but there was a letter saying no en-suite facilities so had to use the toilet down the end of the coach. Didn’t notice any irritating rattling in the room which was admittedly in the middle of the coach, however when I went to use the toilet in the morning I used the one next to the PRM room with the single bed. Not only was Susan Calman announcing the manoeuvring of the doors rather loudly the baby changing table was rattling incessantly. If I’d been in that room next to that I think I’d have lost the will.

Service on both journeys was very good and the breakfast in the lounge is a marked improvement on the old trains. I particularly enjoyed the double bed which was completely unexpected.
 

TimboM

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The latest Tripadvisor review includes this comment: “We had no hot water evening or morning which somewhat defeated the object of having a private shower.”

Indeed - and as long as these reports continue I won’t be using the service and paying the large premium for something that too often isn’t delivered.
You get a substantial refund if key facilities such as the en suite isn't available / no hot water in a Club Room - so in practice you don't pay a large premium for something that isn't delivered.
 

TimboM

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TOURIST STANDARD OPEN MARK 2F
5952/65/76/87: Longtown MoD
6137/76/77/83: Longtown MoD

RLB (RESTUARANT LOUNGE BUFFET FIRST MARK 2F)
6701: Brodies, Kilmarnock
6702/05: Wembley
6704/07: Ferme Park
6708: Crewe Gresty Lane

BUO (BRAKE UNCLASSIFIED OPEN MARK 2E)
9800: Polmadie
9801/04: Wembley
9802/05/07/10: Ferme Park

SLEP (SLEEPER WITH PANTRY MARK 3A)
10501/02/04/13/20/29/31/43/44/65/97/98/600/607/610/614: Ferme Park
10519/51/53 : Wembley
10522/26/27/42/61/605: Long Marston

SLE/@SLED (SLEEPER MARK 3A)
@10648/@50/@66/75/88/93:Ferme Park
@10680/@722: Long Marston
10683/@89/90/@99/703/@706/@718: Wembley

This is an Incomplete list, feel free to reply with updates when any changes happen.
Mk3s 10683 + 10519 + 10543 + 10597 + 10529 + 10565 + 10714 + 10719 + 10513 + 10520 + 10650 + 10648 + 10675 + 10504 + 10688 all moved to Crewe Diesel depot on 24 October. Nine are to stay there and six to move on to other new homes (including four to East Lancs reportedly).

Mk2s 9809, 9806, 6700, 6706, 9800 and 1220 all moved from Polmadie to Wolsingham (via Bishop Auckland West) on 4 November.

6708 is now part of the Statesman stock based at Crewe Diesel depot (not Gresty Lane).
 

FOH

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You get a substantial refund if key facilities such as the en suite isn't available / no hot water in a Club Room - so in practice you don't pay a large premium for something that isn't delivered.
But ... you want the premium service you booked right? I had issues with booking my wedding suit hire, the staff attitude was "don't worry, if the suits aren't there on the day you'll get a full refund" - not really the point. If you book a service you expect it, otherwise you wouldn't have booked the premium service in the first place.
 

BowesRanger

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Well reading this has certainly dampened my excitement about using this from Inverness to London in Jan.

I even persuaded the mrs that it would be much more fun than flying... 'hotel on wheels' may even have been mentioned.

How much trouble am i gonna be in??! :rolleyes:
 

gingerheid

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People don't post here about the journeys that go smoothly. If you read this thread you'd think that every train runs two hours + late with no food or water on board, but every other mode of transport never had problems.

Sleeper is the best way to travel.
 

sprinterguy

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Mk3s 10683 + 10519 + 10543 + 10597 + 10529 + 10565 + 10714 + 10719 + 10513 + 10520 + 10650 + 10648 + 10675 + 10504 + 10688 all moved to Crewe Diesel depot on 24 October. Nine are to stay there and six to move on to other new homes (including four to East Lancs reportedly).
I've just read that 10597 was subsequently moved to Wirksworth on Tuesday for use as accommodation by volunteers of the LMS 10000 Project:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...e-creation-society.163620/page-3#post-4285986
 

BowesRanger

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People don't post here about the journeys that go smoothly. If you read this thread you'd think that every train runs two hours + late with no food or water on board, but every other mode of transport never had problems.

Sleeper is the best way to travel.
Cheers for that.

I'm a massive fan of travelling on sleepers, but I've never travelled on one in the UK, so im really looking forward to it.

For those that know, anything much in the way of facilities at Inverness Station, in case of delays?
 

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