Caledonian Sleeper

[John Bishop]

92033 with five Mk3 sleepers on their way to Carnforth tonight (5Z43).

For WCRC?

 

[FrodshamJnct]

92033 with five Mk3 sleepers on their way to Carnforth tonight (5Z43).

Saw it stabled at Warrington Bank Quay this morning. Wondered what it was doing there.

 

[GrimShady]

The seated coach is First Class. It's basically identical to First Class in a Class 800.

If they wanted to cram people in they could have done 2+2 like GWR did.

Basically a totally unfriendly sleeping environment.

 

[TimboM]

For WCRC?

Believe so.
They (WCRC) also collected another two yesterday that had moved north via Crewe Diesel and the East Lancs.

 

[Mathew S]

Saw it stabled at Warrington Bank Quay this morning. Wondered what it was doing there.

They've been 'parked' in one of the sidings outside the WCRC depot, just south of Carnforth station seemingly all day:

 

[FrodshamJnct]

They've been 'parked' in one of the sidings outside the WCRC depot, just south of Carnforth station seemingly all day:

Yep it was just the 92 I saw this morning.

 

[BRX]

I reckon WCRC could do quite good business running a pseudo-sleeper service, with the mk3s, to Fort William in the summer. A scattering of Friday/Sunday night workings, maybe arriving later / leaving earlier than the 'real' sleeper. Put a pair of 37s on the front. They'd get my interest, anyway. I suppose the pricing might not work out.

 

[Bald Rick]

I reckon WCRC could do quite good business running a pseudo-sleeper service, with the mk3s, to Fort William in the summer. A scattering of Friday/Sunday night workings, maybe arriving later / leaving earlier than the 'real' sleeper. Put a pair of 37s on the front. They'd get my interest, anyway. I suppose the pricing might not work out.

Where to/from?

 

[BRX]

Where to/from?

London, if I had my way. How about Kensington Olympia?

 

[Bald Rick]

London, if I had my way. How about Kensington Olympia?

Given the most recent published accounts from CS, and assuming that any independent operator wanted to make a profit, you’d be adding at least £100, probably twice that, to the typical current fare. In fact probably a lot more as it would be a completely independent operation, with no efficiency in train crew or the combination of trains to Edinburgh.

And the ORR might have something to say about abstraction from CS.

In any event I think the current operators that use Kensington Olympia might have something to say about any train that requires a station stop of more than 3 minutes.

 

[BRX]

Given the most recent published accounts from CS, and assuming that any independent operator wanted to make a profit, you’d be adding at least £100, probably twice that, to the typical current fare. In fact probably a lot more as it would be a completely independent operation, with no efficiency in train crew or the combination of trains to Edinburgh.

And the ORR might have something to say about abstraction from CS.

In any event I think the current operators that use Kensington Olympia might have something to say about any train that requires a station stop of more than 3 minutes.

To be clear, I'm talking about a railtour type thing, not a service train. Like I already said, yes maybe the pricing could never work. I'll be interested to find out what plans WCRC have for the sleepers though.

 

[w1bbl3]

As an alternative assuming not London but far enough away for a sleeper to make sense and large market then maybe Birmingham? could be timed to connect with XC and VT day trains for onward travel and originating travel and the Jacobite..

 

[47271]

They've been 'parked' in one of the sidings outside the WCRC depot, just south of Carnforth station seemingly all day:

Carnforth eh. No doubt I'll spend the next five years passing by every few days slowly watching them crumble into rust like everything else in that place...

 

[PG]

Carnforth eh. No doubt I'll spend the next five years passing by every few days slowly watching them crumble into rust like everything else in that place...

Bit like the WCML version of the NRM except you don't have to get off the train to view the exhibits

 

[31160]

They could just be there for MK3 spares, if WCRC pick up a team for charters, similar to all those parcels Van's they bought

 

[Bald Rick]

To be clear, I'm talking about a railtour type thing, not a service train. Like I already said, yes maybe the pricing could never work. I'll be interested to find out what plans WCRC have for the sleepers though.

Ah sorry, I misunderstood.

Are there any existing charter operators that use sleeper stock?

 

[marks87]

Ah sorry, I misunderstood.

Are there any existing charter operators that use sleeper stock?

The Royal Scotsman, although that targets a somewhat different market to "ordinary" charters.

 

[BRX]

Ah sorry, I misunderstood.

Are there any existing charter operators that use sleeper stock?

The royal scotsman has sleeping cars, including a couple of mk3s but I think they are for staff? And I've seen a mk3 sleeper in the northern belle but again I think that might just be for staff?

 

[marks87]

The royal scotsman has sleeping cars, including a couple of mk3s but I think they are for staff? And I've seen a mk3 sleeper in the northern belle but again I think that might just be for staff?

There's two (double) passenger cabins in one of the mk3s, as well as staff accommodation and a generator. The other mk3 is for staff (plus another generator).

 

[voyagerdude220]

Oh dear.. 5M11 is having power related problems having departed London Euston. The locomotive is being reset. As this happens, it is (or was if it has since moved) trapping Virgin's 09:00 to Manchester/09:03 to Birmingham and 09:10 to Holyhead from departing.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Oh dear.. 5M11 is having power related problems having departed London Euston. The locomotive is being reset. As this happens, it is (or was if it has since moved) trapping Virgin's 09:00 to Manchester/09:03 to Birmingham and 09:10 to Holyhead from departing.

Currently on 1R20 waiting to get in to Euston. It’s blocking platforms 1-7 apparently.

 

[8stewartt]

LSL at Crewe have also had 9 of the MK3’s.

A new service on the west coast would be prohibited I’d have thought due to franchising. However, a new service covering a different route would not. I wonder if this is LSL’s plan?

Maybe something like Plymouth or Bristol TM via Gloucester, Birmingham, Newcastle to Edinburgh?

 

[syorksdeano]

As an alternative assuming not London but far enough away for a sleeper to make sense and large market then maybe Birmingham? could be timed to connect with XC and VT day trains for onward travel and originating travel and the Jacobite..

That wouldn't be a bad idea, but instead of using the WCML using the East Coast via Leeds and Sheffield.

 

[Highland37]

Can I ask how the 86 and 87 performed on the sleeper? How hard were they working?

 

[hwl]

Can I ask how the 86 and 87 performed on the sleeper? How hard were they working?

Mostly ECS moves and pre heating the coaches but the odd occasion trip out when a 92 was unavailable.

 

[Highland37]

Thanks. I meant how well did they cope on the main runs south/north when in sole charge? Were they working as hard as they could? Any slower or could they keep to time? Any reports from drivers?

 

[captainbigun]

They coped fine, don't forget 87s and the odd 86 covered this everyday in BR days and early days of privatisation when VT provided locos. They worked as hard as they needed to, it's not the same as 110mph IC services or intermodals. Timings easy, and on several occasions it was load 16 plus a dead 92.

Plenty of reports from the GB folk who have had to wave them goodbye.

 

[hwl]

They coped fine, don't forget 87s and the odd 86 covered this everyday in BR days and early days of privatisation when VT provided locos. They worked as hard as they needed to, it's not the same as 110mph IC services or intermodals. Timings easy, and on several occasions it was load 16 plus a dead 92.

Plenty of reports from the GB folk who have had to wave them goodbye.

Exactly and still more power per coach that 75mph sprinters when loaded like that!

 

[matacaster]

How about st pancras, Leicester, Sheffield, Leeds, Skipton, Carlisle, Glasgow.
They could even call it. ... The Thames Clyde express!

 

[xc170]

ignore