Caledonian Sleeper

[43096]

That I didn’t know- makes a lot of sense in many ways.

Another point- did BR usually honour the fact that passengers were allowed to remain on board until well after arrival, or were they in practice keen to turf everyone off as soon as possible (as sometimes seems to be the case with CS’ Up Lowlander when it arrives early at Euston? The timetables seem to suggest that you’re allowed to stay in the berth until 08:00 at Euston on the up Highlander, but most crews that I’ve experienced seem to want you to vacate on arrival. The only time I ever used the northbound Lowlander into Glasgow, around a year ago, we were told to vacate on arrival just after 07:20, even though the timetable suggests that you can stay in your berth until about 07:45. Should the ’vacate cabins by’ times actually be taken with a pinch of salt? Obviously there’s no problem with the northbound Inverness or Fort William trains being ’vacate immediately on arrival’, as these arrive at very sociable times and the crews on these routes have had a long enough shift as it is!

On that last point - I don't know in terms of BR days. I would certainly agree that CS seem keen to turf everyone off ASAP. Interesting to note that the southbound lowlander is due into Euston at 0707, with "vacate rooms by 0730", even though the empty stock to Wembley isn't due off until 0854!

 

[Scotrail84]

On that last point - I don't know in terms of BR days. I would certainly agree that CS seem keen to turf everyone off ASAP. Interesting to note that the southbound lowlander is due into Euston at 0707, with "vacate rooms by 0730", even though the empty stock to Wembley isn't due off until 0854!

What time do you think the on board staff should finish after being on duty since 21:30 the previous evening?

 

[Andy Pacer]

What time do you think the on board staff should finish after being on duty since 21:30 the previous evening?

What time are they on pay until?

 

[JModulo]

What time do you think the on board staff should finish after being on duty since 21:30 the previous evening?

Considering some of the crew go for a sleep during the night...

 

[Far north 37]

1M16 starting from perth tonight due to the highland mainline still being closed.

 

[Scotrail84]

What time are they on pay until?

07:30 in London I believe.

 

[Scotrail84]

Considering some of the crew go for a sleep during the night...

Do they? How do you know?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Do they? How do you know?

I suppose, through the middle of the night, some of the staff *might* get a chance to sleep. But they would have to wake up pretty sharpish if there was some kind of crisis. Needless to say it makes for a long stretch of unsociable hours.

 

[43096]

What time do you think the on board staff should finish after being on duty since 21:30 the previous evening?

If they advertise you can stay on the train until 0730, then you should be able to do just that. From my experience they're keen to get you off as soon as.

 

[alangla]

What time do you think the on board staff should finish after being on duty since 21:30 the previous evening?

The time it says in the timetable basically. Last time I traveled, the breakfast arrived an hour early and I was turfed off into a freezing cold London morning with over an hour until the early checkin at the hotel. I’d planned a relaxing breakfast then straight to the hotel to dump the bags & freshen up. Ended up killing time in a Costa instead

 

[Peter Sarf]

What time do you think the on board staff should finish after being on duty since 21:30 the previous evening?

Actually. This is the question. And the answer is the staff should be paid until some time after the last person is supposed to be allowed to get off. But that will be a rather long shift - where I work people get a handsome uplift on the basic pay for working 12-hour shifts. The staff will need time to clean up (although that might be done at the depot). The staff will also need time to prepare them selves for end of shift. In my limited experience of factories anything from 15 minutes downwards to nil is what is allowed. Caledonian sleeper cannot promise a time for customers to disembark and expect their staff to instantly be ready to leave work. That is unrealistic but then that sums up what CS seem to think the service can deliver .

The time it says in the timetable basically. Last time I traveled, the breakfast arrived an hour early and I was turfed off into a freezing cold London morning with over an hour until the early checkin at the hotel. I’d planned a relaxing breakfast then straight to the hotel to dump the bags & freshen up. Ended up killing time in a Costa instead

And obviously that is the inevitable result of squeezing the staff too far.

 

[Scotrail84]

If they advertise you can stay on the train until 0730, then you should be able to do just that. From my experience they're keen to get you off as soon as.

Who says you cant? Also I don't get why folk would want to stay on after arrival. It's not as if you can go back to bed is it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who says you cant? Also I don't get why folk would want to stay on after arrival. It's not as if you can go back to bed is it.

Go back to bed? Not sure I understand. Some people will wish to sleep until about 0720.

 

[jagardner1984]

On the north link ferries into Aberdeen / Lerwick, there is a PA call into all the cabins about 15 minutes before the booked arrival time to update you on progress and to advise you of the need to vacate. Obviously this has particular significance because one vehicle driver oversleeping delays the whole process, but generally this feels like quite a natural way to wake up, be told information and be politely told to hurry up if you have slept to that point.

Personally I’d say the big problem with how it’s managed at the London end in particular is for your first moments of awake to be doors slamming and the sound of Euston rush hour coming into your cabin. In general though I’d say it’s an expectation vs reality thing, and actually politely alerting people via PA sometime after departure from Watford would get people gently awake rather than rudely awakened. Personally i feel the virgin lounge, whilst woefully undersized for the number of users, should be an option for all sleeper passengers, to me the implication of saying the cabins can be occupied until 0745 or 0800 or whatever is that you can sleep in them until just before then. I’m not sure with the tightness of the corridors, the busy nature of the station and the noisiness of human beings generally, that will ever be realistic, and certainly pushing staff hours to the limit doesn’t seem to be a reasonable way of achieving this.

 

[Scotrail84]

Go back to bed? Not sure I understand. Some people will wish to sleep until about 0720.

Not going to happen though is it. Off BY 07:30 not at 07:30 (08:00) in Glasgow and Edinburgh

 

[John Bishop]

1M16 starting from perth tonight due to the highland mainline still being closed.

HML was open this morning. Normal service for Scotrail over it today.

 

[Far north 37]

HML was open this morning. Normal service for Scotrail over it today.

Ah ok thought it was still closed wonder why the stock wasn't worked ecs to inverness then.

 

[TimboM]

Ah ok thought it was still closed wonder why the stock wasn't worked ecs to inverness then.

HML was open this morning. Normal service for Scotrail over it today.

CS had to go early with the decision as to where to start M16 from, as stock needed cleaning / prepping. Couldn't second guess when a flood may subside, so made the call on Sat to start M16 from Perth and move the cleaning/prep operation there. Passengers informed accordingly yesterday.​

 

[Far north 37]

CS had to go early with the decision as to where to start M16 from, as stock needed cleaning / prepping. Couldn't second guess when a flood may subside, so made the call on Sat to start M16 from Perth and move the cleaning/prep operation there. Passengers informed accordingly yesterday.​

I see fair enough sounds like the best option at the time then.

 

[Glenn1969]

I presume it must have been subject to a speed restriction given that RTT says the East Coast London service lost 22 minutes just getting from Carrbridge to Kingussie. Don't think CS deciding to start from Perth is that big a surprise

 

[Far north 37]

I presume it must have been subject to a speed restriction given that RTT says the East Coast London service lost 22 minutes just getting from Carrbridge to Kingussie. Don't think CS deciding to start from Perth is that big a surprise

All scotrail services today on time today through that section and into inverness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not going to happen though is it. Off BY 07:30 not at 07:30 (08:00) in Glasgow and Edinburgh

If the timetable says you have to be off by 0730, that means that stepping out of the exterior door at 07:29:59 is acceptable, and staff should not be hassling people to do otherwise. Just like in a hotel (and it does try to ape one) having a checkout time of say 1000 means you can check out, at your choice, at any time up to that point, including chucking your key on the front desk at 09:59:59, something I would very often do if I'm not in a hurry.

It does NOT mean "well, we might let you stay on until 0730 but we might want to head to our hotels earlier in which case we'll tip you off when we feel like".

If that is not what is on offer, the timetable should say what the situation actually is, i.e. remove the stipulation so people are expecting to leave when the train arrives.

If, however, individual staff are making their own rules up, like the Virgin Trains "Coach K" issue, the Company needs to deal with that issue and make it clear that it will not be tolerated without disciplinary action, and actually take that action if complaints are received.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What time do you think the on board staff should finish after being on duty since 21:30 the previous evening?

Whatever time it states in their contract / shift allocation. If they don't like it, there are plenty of other railway jobs that don't involve that sort of work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Article from the Edinburgh Evening News about ‘emergency exit windows’ being locked shut:
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....ows-are-locked-caledonian-sleeper-1362590?amp

What an almightily silly piece of design. I'm amazed they are allowed to remain in service in that state (or, if they're not required, I'm amazed they are present at all).

 

[MrEd]

Who says you cant? Also I don't get why folk would want to stay on after arrival. It's not as if you can go back to bed is it.

With the Inverness and Fort William northbound I agree, but for the southbound workings, and the northbound Lowlander, the idea may be (as originally conceived) to let the passengers have as much sleep/time to use the en-suite facilities as possible. Obviously staff shift length is an issue here, as you rightly point out, and I appreciate that, but CS should be honest about this, and tell passengers that they need to vacate on arrival (or as soon as possible after), even if the train is running early. That way, they will at least know what’s expected of them and be ready to leave on arrival. This would avoid the need for staff to hurry along dawdling passengers, and the need for passengers to feel rushed in the mornings.

 

[trebor79]

With the Inverness and Fort William northbound I agree, but for the southbound workings, and the northbound Lowlander, the idea may be (as originally conceived) to let the passengers have as much sleep/time to use the en-suite facilities as possible. Obviously staff shift length is an issue here, as you rightly point out, and I appreciate that, but CS should be honest about this, and tell passengers that they need to vacate on arrival (or as soon as possible after), even if the train is running early. That way, they will at least know what’s expected of them and be ready to leave on arrival. This would avoid the need for staff to hurry along dawdling passengers, and the need for passengers to feel rushed in the mornings.

When I used the lowlander last year, the en suite facilities stopped working shortly after arrival at Euston when the ETS was turned off. My toilet was mid flush...

 

[Bletchleyite]

When I used the lowlander last year, the en suite facilities stopped working shortly after arrival at Euston when the ETS was turned off. My toilet was mid flush...

This would suggest that the best fix here might well be to remove the stipulation, i.e. state that people need to leave the cabin on arrival.

It's false expectations that are the main issue - particularly if it wasn't issues flushing the bog, but rather someone stood there naked in the shower having soaped up and unable to wash it off!

 

[TimboM]

What an almightily silly piece of design. I'm amazed they are allowed to remain in service in that state (or, if they're not required, I'm amazed they are present at all).

Have you read the article, including the comments from the ORR? They are evidently aware and don't require the one coach impacted (out of 75) to be taken out of service.

There's far more of a safety issue with spurious "emergency window open" alarms going off repeatedly and distracting the guard and driver from their safety critical duties; or the window inadvertently opening and colliding with a passing train or object.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have you read the article, including the comments from the ORR? They are evidently aware and don't require the one coach impacted (out of 75) to be taken out of service.

There's far more of a safety issue with spurious "emergency window open" alarms going off repeatedly and distracting the guard and driver from their safety critical duties; or the window inadvertently opening and colliding with a passing train or object.

Then why do the windows exist? I can't imagine an aircraft being allowed to fly with an overwing exit locked off, for instance. They are either needed or they are not.

 

[Essexman]

I would make fewer journeys on the Lowlander if we had to vacate immediately on arrival. The night's sleep is short enough as it is.

I recently contacted CS about power going off soon after arrival in Edinburgh, midway through using en suite facilities. Customer Service said they were grateful for feedback and would pass it on.