Caledonian Sleeper

[Far north 37]

CS boss publicly having a go at GBRF in the press today over the “unacceptable” loco issues affecting CS along with various passenger accounts of “journeys from hell” with lack of water, no flushing toilets, no heating, food issues and severe delays.

The CS reply of passengers getting a full refund really misses the point about repeat custom being lost as a result of the issues putting many people off from using the service again. But if a PR mountain to climb going forward.

Not sure what they hope to achieve publicly attacking gbrf like that the locomotives have been relatively trouble free for a while now are they just using last weekend as an opportunity to try cover there own basically shambolic running of the services with issues that go far deeper than loco reliability.

 

[TheSeeker]

Maybe a daft question but do the sleeper staff sleep in the train during the day, before the following nights return?

 

[Highland37]

It's amazing that with the investment into stock, locomotives and less complicated nature of sleepers in the UK relative to mainland Europe, that they can't provide a reliable service.

 

[6Z09]

Maybe a daft question but do the sleeper staff sleep in the train during the day, before the following nights return?

No, depending which end of the country ,they will either go home or book into hotels prior to next shift.

 

[6Z09]

It's amazing that with the investment into stock, locomotives and less complicated nature of sleepers in the UK relative to mainland Europe, that they can't provide a reliable service.

The Caledonian Sleeper has probably the most seperate companies involved in its operation than any other train in the UK! Lots of opportunities for things to go wrong.

 

[ruaival]

No, depending which end of the country ,they will either go home or book into hotels prior to next shift.

Correct, as I recall from First Scotrail days ... the Scottish crew that worked Southbound Lowlander on a Sunday night would hotel near Euston daytime Monday and ride North on the Monday night service. Always a cheery Scots welcome Northbound on Monday Wednesday and Friday.

The sleeper carriages "sleep" at Wembley for the day.

 

[marks87]

A more detailed review of last night...

Positives:

• The en-suite - far, far better than needing to traipse to the end of the coach (or in the case of my last trip, the next coach) to use the toilet; since I was heading home, I didn't bother with the shower
• Breakfast - a very enjoyable bacon roll
• Comfortable mattress and pillows

Negatives:

• Being in a berth over the bogies - never again. Even though I did seem to manage quite a reasonable amount of sleep, it took a while because every...single...jolt was felt. If I'd booked this myself I'd have probably chosen a middle berth, but there's no such luxury via my work travel agent. Maybe I could have swapped to a different berth at a ticket office?
• The noise from the toilet flushing
• Very stiff door - I thought it was locked when I boarded and went back outside to tell the steward (is that what they're called?) who gave it a fair shove to get it open
• One of the USB charging ports not working
• Someone managing to open my door despite the internal lock being turned

Despite the negatives outnumbering the positives, overall it was actually quite enjoyable. Once I got to sleep for the second time after the fire alarm incident, I didn't wake up again until the roar you get going through the Haymarket tunnels. I certainly can't remember Preston or Carlisle.

However, I did leave the train feeling like I'd just stepped off a 6-week cruise. Whether I'm susceptible to disembarkment syndrome (although it didn't effect me last time), or if being over the bogies made the ride significantly worse enough to bring it on, I don't know.

The last thing really is the arrival time. Having breakfast at 5.20am to be sure of finishing for a 6am arrival wasn't the most enjoyable thing. Sure, 8.30pm boarding means there's plenty time to sleep but there's then a knock-on effect to the next night, and so on.

Obviously I also got off at an intermediate stop which will always necessitate needing to leave earlier, but even 7.41 into Aberdeen seems a bit early. 8.30 there (so I'd have been ~7am in Dundee) seems a bit more respectable.

I'm not sure what the answer to that is, though, because the timings are necessary for Inverness and Fort William, and I guess hanging around in Edinburgh using up a platform isn't an option. A shunt into P0 at Haymarket for an hour?

Overall though I would do it again, preferably in a middle berth.

 

[marks87]

Correct, as I recall from First Scotrail days ... the Scottish crew that worked Southbound Lowlander on a Sunday night would hotel near Euston daytime Monday and ride North on the Monday night service. Always a cheery Scots welcome Northbound on Monday Wednesday and Friday.

I assume the same roster applies to the Highlander as well, because we had a very cheery Scottish host checking tickets at the barriers while the train was being prepared.

 

[greatkingrat]

Yes, that way everyone is back at their home base for Saturday night (when no sleepers run).

 

[ajrm]

A more detailed review of last night...

The last thing really is the arrival time. Having breakfast at 5.20am to be sure of finishing for a 6am arrival wasn't the most enjoyable thing. Sure, 8.30pm boarding means there's plenty time to sleep but there's then a knock-on effect to the next night, and so on.

Obviously I also got off at an intermediate stop which will always necessitate needing to leave earlier, but even 7.41 into Aberdeen seems a bit early. 8.30 there (so I'd have been ~7am in Dundee) seems a bit more respectable.

I'm not sure what the answer to that is, though, because the timings are necessary for Inverness and Fort William, and I guess hanging around in Edinburgh using up a platform isn't an option. A shunt into P0 at Haymarket for an hour?

Agreed. Those arrival times are pretty brutal and also apply to Stirling and Perth on the Inverness portion. I don't know what the solution is, but (as another Dundee passenger) the one thing which would encourage me to use the sleeper much more is a better arrival time.

 

[railfan100]

Having been on the CS from Euston to Inverness these MK5's show every minor bump in the track, in nearly 50 years of rail travel these CAF stock have one of the worst rides I have ever experienced how you can sleep on them is beyond me. CAF should be conducting a fix to resolve the ride issue, even the TM I spoke to agreed the ride was very poor, these units were built to a price....

 

[Dr Hoo]

Having been on the CS from Euston to Inverness these MK5's show every minor bump in the track, in nearly 50 years of rail travel these CAF stock have one of the worst rides I have ever experienced how you can sleep on them is beyond me. CAF should be conducting a fix to resolve the ride issue, even the TM I spoke to agreed the ride was very poor, these units were built to a price....

Whilst appreciating that everything in life has a ‘price’ of some sort the widely reported £200,000,000 contract for 75 vehicles (not sure what price base) suggests around £2,666,666 per vehicle. (Yes, I know that there are several variations.)
Does anyone have any idea what a ‘non-bargain-basement’ vehicle might have cost?
Or is the quoted cost actually about decades of maintenance as well?
Thanks.

 

[47271]

Whilst appreciating that everything in life has a ‘price’ of some sort the widely reported £200,000,000 contract for 75 vehicles (not sure what price base) suggests around £2,666,666 per vehicle. (Yes, I know that there are several variations.)
Does anyone have any idea what a ‘non-bargain-basement’ vehicle might have cost?
Or is the quoted cost actually about decades of maintenance as well?
Thanks.

From what I hear procurement and project supervision by individuals with little or no rail or sleeper operations experience is as big a factor in the shortcomings of the stock.

 

[paul1609]

Agreed. Those arrival times are pretty brutal and also apply to Stirling and Perth on the Inverness portion. I don't know what the solution is, but (as another Dundee passenger) the one thing which would encourage me to use the sleeper much more is a better arrival time.

Id suggest Northbound getting the lowlander to Edinburgh and then a Scotrail train to destination certainly for Stirling or Perth, probably for Dundee but I've never been further north than Kirkcaldy overnight on the Aberdeen branch.

 

[railfan100]

From what I hear procurement and project supervision by individuals with little or no rail or sleeper operations experience is as big a factor in the shortcomings of the stock.

It is quite incredible the new train procurement process which in many instances the makers tell the the purchasers what they can deliver and not the other way around! I was involved quite a bit under BR in new train introduction and from what I hear from former colleagues still involved in this things really have changed by a long way!

 

[ajrm]

Id suggest Northbound getting the lowlander to Edinburgh and then a Scotrail train to destination certainly for Stirling or Perth, probably for Dundee but I've never been further north than Kirkcaldy overnight on the Aberdeen branch.

Id suggest Northbound getting the lowlander to Edinburgh and then a Scotrail train to destination certainly for Stirling or Perth, probably for Dundee but I've never been further north than Kirkcaldy overnight on the Aberdeen branch.

Yes, but then you have the inconvenience of changing train at Waverley in the middle of the morning peak while half awake and potentially sitting unwashed for an hour or more. It’s not much of an improvement IMHO.

 

[alangla]

Is it possibly the case that the springs are a bit stiffer simply because they’re new? I’ve found that with cars before, the ride seems to soften over time. In saying that, the secondary suspension on this stock should be tuned to a “comfort” (I.e. gentle wallow rather than violent bounce) setting. Especially if they’re never going to top 90mph in service

 

[Essexman]

I'm fortunate that I can usually choose when I travel and with the new stock if I can't get a berth in the middle of the coach I don't book.

 

[MrEd]

I assume the same roster applies to the Highlander as well, because we had a very cheery Scottish host checking tickets at the barriers while the train was being prepared.

That’s right, it’s Scottish crews northbound on the Highlander Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights out of Euston. The man who usually checks tickets at the barrier before boarding starts, though, is in fact a duty manager who is based in London and lives in the Home Counties somewhere (I believe he’s from Dundee originally, which explains his accent- he always seems to be a very pleasant and welcoming face). He doesn’t seem ever to travel on the train, but seems simply to supervise the boarding of the Highlander on platform 1, then do the same for the Lowlander on platform 15. There’s no equivalent to his post at any of the Scottish terminals, as far as I can recall; his main job (as far as the public see- maybe he has more to do behind the scenes) seems to be supervising the preparation of the train and directing passengers to the correct part of the platform so that they can check in with the correct host when boarding starts.

 

[sheff1]

Agreed. Those arrival times are pretty brutal and also apply to Stirling and Perth on the Inverness portion. I don't know what the solution is, but (as another Dundee passenger) the one thing which would encourage me to use the sleeper much more is a better arrival time.

Back in BR times, passengers in sleeper berths were allowed to 'overtravel' and then use a normal train to their destination. For example, when travelling from London I could stay in the berth until Plymouth, lie in (as one or more cars were detached there) and then travel back to Exeter.
I do not know the full list of where this was allowed but, as far as I can see, the only places where it is still allowed are Aviemore & Carrbridge which seems rather strange as arrival times for those are pretty civilised.

 

[Peter Sarf]

With one bit of the rail industry blaming another part of the rail industry all it achieves is blame of the ....... rail industry.

 

[Highland37]

The Caledonian Sleeper has probably the most seperate companies involved in its operation than any other train in the UK! Lots of opportunities for things to go wrong.

I was comparing it with mainland Europe sleepers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Back in BR times, passengers in sleeper berths were allowed to 'overtravel' and then use a normal train to their destination. For example, when travelling from London I could stay in the berth until Plymouth, lie in (as one or more cars were detached there) and then travel back to Exeter.
I do not know the full list of where this was allowed but, as far as I can see, the only places where it is still allowed are Aviemore & Carrbridge which seems rather strange as arrival times for those are pretty civilised.

Realistically with the Cally if you want to arrive later the best thing to do is to take the Lowlander and a connecting train rather than overtravel and go back. I can see the point with the Riviera, though it's worth noting that as most tickets used on that are walk-up Super Off Peaks if you're not going both ways on the Sleeper you can sort of do that by booking to the furthest point then going back using the return half, then break your journey for your intended stay.

 

[BRX]

A more detailed review of last night...

Positives:

• The en-suite - far, far better than needing to traipse to the end of the coach (or in the case of my last trip, the next coach) to use the toilet; since I was heading home, I didn't bother with the shower
• Breakfast - a very enjoyable bacon roll
• Comfortable mattress and pillows

Negatives:

• Being in a berth over the bogies - never again. Even though I did seem to manage quite a reasonable amount of sleep, it took a while because every...single...jolt was felt. If I'd booked this myself I'd have probably chosen a middle berth, but there's no such luxury via my work travel agent. Maybe I could have swapped to a different berth at a ticket office?
• The noise from the toilet flushing
• Very stiff door - I thought it was locked when I boarded and went back outside to tell the steward (is that what they're called?) who gave it a fair shove to get it open
• One of the USB charging ports not working
• Someone managing to open my door despite the internal lock being turned

Despite the negatives outnumbering the positives, overall it was actually quite enjoyable. Once I got to sleep for the second time after the fire alarm incident, I didn't wake up again until the roar you get going through the Haymarket tunnels. I certainly can't remember Preston or Carlisle.

However, I did leave the train feeling like I'd just stepped off a 6-week cruise. Whether I'm susceptible to disembarkment syndrome (although it didn't effect me last time), or if being over the bogies made the ride significantly worse enough to bring it on, I don't know.

The last thing really is the arrival time. Having breakfast at 5.20am to be sure of finishing for a 6am arrival wasn't the most enjoyable thing. Sure, 8.30pm boarding means there's plenty time to sleep but there's then a knock-on effect to the next night, and so on.

Obviously I also got off at an intermediate stop which will always necessitate needing to leave earlier, but even 7.41 into Aberdeen seems a bit early. 8.30 there (so I'd have been ~7am in Dundee) seems a bit more respectable.

I'm not sure what the answer to that is, though, because the timings are necessary for Inverness and Fort William, and I guess hanging around in Edinburgh using up a platform isn't an option. A shunt into P0 at Haymarket for an hour?

Overall though I would do it again, preferably in a middle berth.

Seems a bit unlikely that platforms at edinburgh would be in high demand at 4 or 5am?

 

[Highland37]

69k views....

 

[Train368]

Random question but how is the seated coach for travelling in?

Thinking about doing it between Edinburgh and London, anyone know the best seats to sit in for a good window view? They do have a seating plan but does not tell you if window view or not. Looking for 2 seats together. Thanks

 

[TheAlbanach_]

Random question but how is the seated coach for travelling in?

Thinking about doing it between Edinburgh and London, anyone know the best seats to sit in for a good window view? They do have a seating plan but does not tell you if window view or not. Looking for 2 seats together. Thanks

The seats aren't the best for travelling to be honest, they're all rock solid. I think most line up with the window though. Don't expect to see much though as there is a light shining down from the top of the window frame!

 

[JonathanH]

Random question but how is the seated coach for travelling in?

The seats aren't the best for travelling to be honest, they're all rock solid.

I don't think the firmness of the seats is that much of a problem but they don't recline enough for my liking.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think the firmness of the seats is that much of a problem but they don't recline enough for my liking.

If anyone wants to "try before they buy" they are the same as the First Class seats in 80x. My view, without going too far into seat wibble, is that they are an average but acceptable First Class seat - nowhere near as good as the Pendolino 1st seat, but could be worse.

 

[swapmeetpete]

I don't think the firmness of the seats is that much of a problem but they don't recline enough for my liking.

And if you do recline, the squab moves forward and you lose your legroom. Take a little cushion for the small of your back, or use your coat to fill the hole. And be prepared for the worst ride quality you've ever had on a train.