Caledonian Sleeper

[bastien]

That would be like ordering a brand new car but telling them to deliver it without wheels as you have an old set of alloys in the shed!

Hey people used to build all sorts of things on top of old VW chassis.

 

[47271]

Some positive CS news has just reached me, and I'm no cheerleader for Serco as we know.

I have a contact who is a very regular Highlander user. On Sunday night there was a problem with capacity on the southbound Inverness section (does anyone know about this, some coaches out of service apparently?). He received a call in the early evening informing that a taxi would collect him from his door at Dunkeld and take him to Glasgow for the Lowlander. It did that exactly on time and, he says, on arrival on Glasgow the crew were superb, immediately acknowledging him as a put out Highlander user and making a difficult situation feel like a privilege. He was put in a double cabin, the train and service were immaculate, and had a fantastic experience throughout. On time arrival at Euston.

So they can do it so, so well. If they were rubbish all of time we could dismiss them as complete clowns. It's the inconsistency that's so upsetting.

 

[sheff1]

So they can do it so, so well. If they were rubbish all of time we could dismiss them as complete clowns. It's the inconsistency that's so upsetting.

Indeed. The arrangements you describe are exactly the sort of things a true luxury brand should be doing as a matter of course. If CS always provided such customer service this thread would be considerably shorter and tripadvisor etc ratings would be considerably higher.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Southbound from Fort Bill has terminated at Tulloch tonight due to a train fault.

 

[MrEd]

Some positive CS news has just reached me, and I'm no cheerleader for Serco as we know.

I have a contact who is a very regular Highlander user. On Sunday night there was a problem with capacity on the southbound Inverness section (does anyone know about this, some coaches out of service apparently?). He received a call in the early evening informing that a taxi would collect him from his door at Dunkeld and take him to Glasgow for the Lowlander. It did that exactly on time and, he says, on arrival on Glasgow the crew were superb, immediately acknowledging him as a put out Highlander user and making a difficult situation feel like a privilege. He was put in a double cabin, the train and service were immaculate, and had a fantastic experience throughout. On time arrival at Euston.

So they can do it so, so well. If they were rubbish all of time we could dismiss them as complete clowns. It's the inconsistency that's so upsetting.

Absolutely 100% agree with you. Spot on! I was booked in a club room to Inverness on 5-6 November and the on-train staff never smiled once and acted like everything was far too much trouble- there was a host who got cross with me when I didn’t fill the breakfast card in soon enough, a team leader who was more interested in shouting at seated passengers who’d walked into the lounge and being needlessly rude and condescending to some tourists (whose first language was not English) who’d mistakenly brought their own food into the lounge than serving anyone, and a host who shrugged (and said nothing) when I told him about an onward connection to Kyle and asked him to confirm the next available train from Inverness. I was booked in the same club accommodation to Spean Bridge on 22-23 January and the staff were just superb, with the sweetest, loveliest lady looking after me and being a truly fantastic host, and really friendly, efficient service in the lounge from the Aberdeen and Fort William crews evening and morning with great food and very lovely, caring hospitality. They even offered to organise a taxi to take me from Spean Bridge to Kyle if I missed the service bus which I thought was the loveliest touch (we arrived at Spean on time so there was no need to worry there). This shows that they can provide a truly world class experience when they put their mind to it and when the staff who care are rostered for duty. This proves to me is, as you say, they’re not complete cowboys or charlatans and have got the right idea. What is so upsetting is when folk are landed with experiences like mine in November, which show CS at its worst. Consistency is everything, and that is something that CS fail to deliver at present. For whatever reason, some staff just don’t seem very competent, nor do they seem to care much, whereas others are absolutely stellar, put their heart and soul into the sleeper and are easily to be counted among the best rail staff in the UK. The sleeper to Inverness or Fort William will always be my favourite rail journey, and that is why I am so keen for CS to make a success of it and to make it the world-class experience that it deserves to be. Surely CS can sort this if they put their minds to it. I’m travelling up again to Inverness on Friday night and catching the Kyle train Saturday morning, so hopefully this will be a good experience (it’ll be Inverness crew northbound on a Friday and they’re usually a good bunch, so fingers crossed).

 

[Furrball]

Looks like Fort William - Edinburgh has sat down at Tulloch

This service was cancelled between Tulloch and Edinburgh due to a problem with the traction equipment (MD).

 

[MrEd]

Indeed. The arrangements you describe are exactly the sort of things a true luxury brand should be doing as a matter of course. If CS always provided such customer service this thread would be considerably shorter and tripadvisor etc ratings would be considerably higher.

100% with you. If every night was like the one I had on 22nd-23rd Jan it would be seeing fairly consistent 4* and 5* reviews, at least from the tourist’s perspective (niggling defects aside).

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Looks like Fort William - Edinburgh has sat down at Tulloch

Square wheels apparently

 

[Highland37]

I reckon a couchette type service would be well used. Sleeping on seats isn't really worth a great amount to the end user...

 

[Mainliner]

I reckon a couchette type service would be well used. Sleeping on seats isn't really worth a great amount to the end user...

Air New Zealand considering that too:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-new-zealand-skynest-bunks-budget-travellers

 

[John Bishop]

So after last nights issues, I take it there is no down FW portion running this morning?

 

[jagardner1984]

Looks like Northbound Lowlander got stuck behind a broken freight train and isn’t due into Glasgow for another half hour .... 150 ish late

 

[JonathanH]

So after last nights issues, I take it there is no down FW portion running this morning?

Yes, presumably the full eight car unit has gone to Aberdeen. More shuffling of the Fort William carriages between units I guess.

1M16 ran to Euston with 13 coaches. Delayed at Edinburgh waiting for the Fort William passengers to arrive by road.

 

[Far north 37]

Yes, presumably the full eight car unit has gone to Aberdeen. More shuffling of the Fort William carriages between units I guess.

1M16 ran to Euston with 13 coaches. Delayed at Edinburgh waiting for the Fort William passengers to arrive by road.

Loco and stock are back at fort william.

 

[Maxfly]

Loco and stock are back at fort william.

The one coach that has wheel flats is awaiting a skate move from Tulloch for onward road transport I believe. Should be sufficient time mid afternoon most days for that I would think.

 

[ashkeba]

It already is - the seats are hardly Hilton territory!

Indeed. It seems like the current situation is part Hilton and part "people sleeping in seats in a meeting room just off the lounge" - a hostel would be ashamed of offering the CS seats!

 

[Richard P]

Abysmal and embarrassing lack of communication again last night on the CS Twitter feed - advised an issue with the down highlander and a delay of 30 minutes with further updates to follow, 21 hours later no further updates as to the "problem" - the public having to tweet the cancellation on their behalf is embarrassing
Similarly approach to delayed up Lowlander stuck behind a failed fright train - one tweet advising running 80 minutes late then silence again, arrived 160 late
Fully appreciate neither delay was as a result of CS's own failings but when you are charging "guests" more for a return trip to London from FW than it costs to fly to the US and back you don't expect "customer service" to abdicate their responsibility to communicate regularly

 

[JonathanH]

Abysmal and embarrassing lack of communication again last night on the CS Twitter feed - advised an issue with the down highlander and a delay of 30 minutes with further updates to follow, 21 hours later no further updates as to the "problem" - the public having to tweet the cancellation on their behalf is embarrassing

How do you know that the relevant passengers weren't contacted individually? Not all of the communication has to be done in the public arena on Twitter particularly with a service which is pretty much reservation only.

(I must admit that no one told me why we sat at Edinburgh for an hour last night on the southbound lowlander but they probably didn't want to disturb people sleeping. When I asked the member of staff they confirmed that we were waiting for the Fort William guests.) I didn't need to look at Twitter to find that out.

Does it really cost more to go in a bed from London to Fort William than in a bed from London to the US? I think you are comparing economy seats on the plane with beds on the train. The seats to Fort William are cheaper than the seats on a plane to the US. I agree that the costs of travelling on the sleeper are now quite expensive but that doesn't mean it isn't booked out on some dates in the Summer already.

 

[ashkeba]

The seats to Fort William are cheaper than the seats on a plane to the US.

The seats to FW don't recline as much and are harder than most planes.

 

[Toast is nice]

How do you know that the relevant passengers weren't contacted individually? Not all of the communication has to be done in the public arena on Twitter particularly with a service which is pretty much reservation only.

(I must admit that no one told me why we sat at Edinburgh for an hour last night on the southbound lowlander but they probably didn't want to disturb people sleeping. When I asked the member of staff they confirmed that we were waiting for the Fort William guests.) I didn't need to look at Twitter to find that out.

Does it really cost more to go in a bed from London to Fort William than in a bed from London to the US? I think you are comparing economy seats on the plane with beds on the train. The seats to Fort William are cheaper than the seats on a plane to the US. I agree that the costs of travelling on the sleeper are now quite expensive but that doesn't mean it isn't booked out on some dates in the Summer already.

The process whereby travellers are contacted individually frequently falls down for business travellers on a carnet where CS might not have the travellers’ contact details. That has happened on more than one occasion to my colleagues and I where a simple Twitter post would have saved us a lengthy journey to the railway station for a train which CS had known for some time would not be running.

 

[Kite159]

The seats to FW don't recline as much and are harder than most planes.

And you won't have to shift coaches midway through the night when at Edinburgh on a plane.

It will be like landing first in Nova Scotia to change plane to carry on to the destination in America

 

[Airline Man]

And you won't have to shift coaches midway through the night when at Edinburgh on a plane.

It will be like landing first in Nova Scotia to change plane to carry on to the destination in America

That has happened in real life. I had a work colleague who flew to New York on one of the last Concorde flights. It delivered a technical fault and diverted to Halifax. BA diverted a New York flight into Halifax to pick up the Concorde flights to finish their journies. She got two free First Class tickets anywhere in the world as compensation.

 

[RT4038]

but when you are charging "guests" more for a return trip to London from FW than it costs to fly to the US and back

Sounds good, but really is bunkum. Compare apples with apples please.

What does it cost to travel return to US in a bed? much more than any CS fare!

 

[Richard P]

Sounds good, but really is bunkum. Compare apples with apples please.

What does it cost to travel return to US in a bed? much more than any CS fare!

I'm using the simple analogy that it is regularly cheaper to fly to New York from London and back than it is to travel from London to Fort William on the sleeper in a Club Room. CS have a proven track record of either not communicating at all or at best sporadically and I used the example of Tuesday night when they promised an update shortly and 2 days later still have yet to provide that update. It's called Customer Service and for £400+ for a return journey it's the very least they should provide. Remember too it's not just about contacting passengers travelling it's also about friends and families meeting up at arrival stations, communication is key and for the record I was at Crianlarich on Tuesday night waiting to meet a colleague who'd used the service from Fort William. Several people were waiting on the platform to board, others like me to meet people. No-one had a clue what was going on and if it hadn't been for other twitter users updating the CS initial message we wouldn't have known it was cancelled

 

[bobbyrail]

I'm using the simple analogy that it is regularly cheaper to fly to New York from London and back than it is to travel from London to Fort William on the sleeper in a Club Room.

It might also be cheaper to fly to Islamabad but thats not where the Fort William passengers want to go.

 

[RT4038]

I'm using the simple analogy that it is regularly cheaper to fly to New York from London and back than it is to travel from London to Fort William on the sleeper in a Club Room. CS have a proven track record of either not communicating at all or at best sporadically and I used the example of Tuesday night when they promised an update shortly and 2 days later still have yet to provide that update. It's called Customer Service and for £400+ for a return journey it's the very least they should provide. Remember too it's not just about contacting passengers travelling it's also about friends and families meeting up at arrival stations, communication is key and for the record I was at Crianlarich on Tuesday night waiting to meet a colleague who'd used the service from Fort William. Several people were waiting on the platform to board, others like me to meet people. No-one had a clue what was going on and if it hadn't been for other twitter users updating the CS initial message we wouldn't have known it was cancelled

I am unsure what the price of the cheapest economy ticket on a plane to New York has got to do with the travelling from London to Fort William on the sleeper in a club room. The £400+ fare doesn't entitle anyone to extra customer service - my house cost more than 500 return tickets to New York, so what kind of customer service do I get for that? Incredible as it might seem, but the cost of providing the club room to Fort William is probably much more than the economy aeroplane seat to New York. A simple analogy it might have been, but quite irrelevant.

You are quite right that the Customer Service is very important and clearly from this and many other incidents CS has alot of problems. However it does strike me that:
1. A huge subsidy per passenger journey is being paid to operate this bespoke service.
2. The Scottish Government has decided on a micro-franchise, coverage a huge amount of track once or twice in each direction. Such a micro-franchise will not be able to afford much back up staff or equipment
3. The operation is complex (more so than on any other main stream franchise) of every train dividing/coupling 2 or 3 times, on fragile infrastructure running in remote places. Anything going wrong will be expensive to recover from.
4. The rolling stock is bespoke, cannot be satisfactorily replaced by anything else, so just about anything going wrong will result in customer unhappiness. It is just too expensive to have lots of spare stock standing idle.
5. The locomotives used are not of standard designs and are unreliable. However, little else is available as trains of separate carriages are virtually extinct, and the purchase of new locomotives too expensive for the low utilisation possible.
6. The service uses a long section of electrified track, which is prone to damage and disruption.
7. Every individual thing costs so much money on such a micro operation, from the provision of shunting engines/crew to bring the carriages from the sidings to the station, to putting sleeping car crews in hotels during the day.

I suspect that there is no more money available for more spare staff to cope with failures and disruption, either front line or customer serving. The whole thing is grotesque and set up for failure.
UK railways in 2020 are just not set up/capable of running such an operation at a sensible price. If we can't do it properly then we should not be doing it at all.

 

[al78]

my house cost more than 500 return tickets to New York, so what kind of customer service do I get for that?

That is a silly analogy. When you buy a house you buy a physical thing, not a service, and you gain an asset which you can sell later on, if you are lucky, for more than you paid for it. If you are selling a house at the same time as buying you will pay for solicitors and an estate agent, who will provide services related to the selling process in return. It is not in the slightest bit compatible with paying a high price for a service, which customers would expect to get something that they feel was worth paying that price, which includes service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect that there is no more money available for more spare staff to cope with failures and disruption, either front line or customer serving. The whole thing is grotesque and set up for failure.
UK railways in 2020 are just not set up/capable of running such an operation at a sensible price. If we can't do it properly then we should not be doing it at all.

I agree. The logical conclusion of that is that it needs to either go back into ScotRail or be moved into InterCity West Coast. Either would make sense for different reasons, but the present situation simply doesn't, it is a really inefficient way to run it.

 

[RT4038]

That is a silly analogy. When you buy a house you buy a physical thing, not a service, and you gain an asset which you can sell later on, if you are lucky, for more than you paid for it. If you are selling a house at the same time as buying you will pay for solicitors and an estate agent, who will provide services related to the selling process in return. It is not in the slightest bit compatible with paying a high price for a service, which customers would expect to get something that they feel was worth paying that price, which includes service.

But is £400+ a high price, considering the low number of club passengers per coach and huge subsidy for the CS service in general? Perhaps the cost of really good customer service would make the price £500+ ?
I don't see what the difference between a physical thing or service makes. A complicated medical procedure costing 100 times the cost of an economy return to New York then ...... should I get fantastic customer service, or is the price just reflecting the costs of provision?

 

[MrEd]

I agree. The logical conclusion of that is that it needs to either go back into ScotRail or be moved into InterCity West Coast. Either would make sense for different reasons, but the present situation simply doesn't, it is a really inefficient way to run it.

I agree, it was a huge mistake making CS into a separate franchise, and I’m not sure what the powers that be were thinking when they suggested it. I would personally favour the sleeper going back into the Scotrail franchise, which makes so much sense (at least from a Highlander perspective)- when it was part of Scotrail, the customer service and telesales could be dealt with by the existing (excellent) Scotrail staff, it was under the existing Scotrail management structure, and north of Edinburgh, Scotrail were able to use guards who were part of the regular links and who could work day trains as well. The sleeper under Scotrail could also probably use existing catering supplies at terminal stations in Scotland for most items except a few hot dishes unique to the lounge car (and there is no need for that pretentious on-board menu that Serco insist on, which again is needlessly labour intensive for on-train staff). Having the sleeper as part of Scotrail would also make sense as it is required to act as a day train between Edinburgh and Fort William and Kingussie and Inverness. It just didn’t, doesn’t, and never will make sense having to create all these jobs (and associated management) from scratch. The new stock is fantastic (when it works) but I am not convinced about Serco’s ability to run the service effectively day in, day out. I’m also not convinced that management have the right attitude (it almost feels like they take their passengers for granted), and I wonder if this is reflected in some of the more truculent members of front-line staff (on the train and in the lounge at Inverness) I’ve encountered recently (though there are many excellent and committed staff too).