Caledonian Sleeper

[Peter Sarf]

For the money CS charges for a club or double room you should get a bloody limousine to your destination included. Outrageous prices

Ooops. I just read CS charges as Carriage Sidings charges !. But maybe.....

 

[Oscar46016]

I notice that a pair of 73's have been working back and forth to aberdeen on ecs over the last couple of days

 

[MrEd]

I notice that a pair of 73's have been working back and forth to aberdeen on ecs over the last couple of days

Perhaps this is for route and traction refreshers? The GBRF drivers and CS guards may not have worked over the Edinburgh-Aberdeen route since mid-March (and in some drivers’ cases may not have driven a Class 73 since the Aberdeen section was cut from the timetable) so will probably need refreshers to keep up their competence.

I can imagine that we will see similar workings on the Fort William route for these purposes, before that section is reinstated later in the summer.

 

[Peter Sarf]

If refresher runs are happening to/from Aberdeen then that suggests to me that the Aberdeen portion will be the next to be re-instated ?.

 

[InOban]

On the contrary, according to earlier posts, FW restarts at the end of next week.

 

[TimboM]

Perhaps this is for route and traction refreshers? The GBRF drivers and CS guards may not have worked over the Edinburgh-Aberdeen route since mid-March (and in some drivers’ cases may not have driven a Class 73 since the Aberdeen section was cut from the timetable) so will probably need refreshers to keep up their competence.

I can imagine that we will see similar workings on the Fort William route for these purposes, before that section is reinstated later in the summer.

If refresher runs are happening to/from Aberdeen then that suggests to me that the Aberdeen portion will be the next to be re-instated ?.

They are for route refreshing/retention, but because the service WON'T be going to Aberdeen for a while.

The planned change from 15th July is a Highlander service to Inverness and Fort William, plus a separate Lowlander to Edinburgh only.

Re. refreshers on the FTW route, I think a lot of the drivers also do the alcans to Fort William too - and also with it due to start up again soon (9 days time) not so much as an issue as with Aberdeen, which could be several more weeks away from restarting.

 

[MrEd]

They are for route refreshing/retention, but because the service WON'T be going to Aberdeen for a while.

The planned change from 15th July is a Highlander service to Inverness and Fort William, plus a separate Lowlander to Edinburgh only.

Re. refreshers on the FTW route, I think a lot of the drivers also do the alcans to Fort William too - and also with it due to start up again soon (9 days time) not so much as an issue as with Aberdeen, which could be several more weeks away from restarting.

Yes, I thought that the FW drivers also drove the Alcans so still regularly worked over the WHL. I wonder why they’ve decided not to bother with the Lowlander to Glasgow (attached to the Edinburgh portion) just yet, is this because of low patronage/possible staff shortages, or is it to avoid complications with the Carstairs shunt? I’d have thought that the Glasgow portion was important, especially as it has been one of only two portions running all through lockdown (Edinburgh has been served by the Glasgow portion, with boarding and alighting at unsociable times) and is also convenient as the stock needs to go to Polmadie anyway. They’re saying on the CS website that 1 September is the likely date for the Aberdeen section restarting, so refreshers would certainly seem to be needed; that portion won’t have run in public service for more than 5 months.

 

[TimboM]

Yes, I thought that the FW drivers also drove the Alcans so still regularly worked over the WHL. I wonder why they’ve decided not to bother with the Lowlander to Glasgow (attached to the Edinburgh portion) just yet, is this because of low patronage/possible staff shortages, or is it to avoid complications with the Carstairs shunt? I’d have thought that the Glasgow portion was important, especially as it has been one of only two portions running all through lockdown (Edinburgh has been served by the Glasgow portion, with boarding and alighting at unsociable times) and is also convenient as the stock needs to go to Polmadie anyway. They’re saying on the CS website that 1 September is the likely date for the Aberdeen section restarting, so refreshers would certainly seem to be needed; that portion won’t have run in public service for more than 5 months.

It's to serve the summer/tourist market for Inverness, Fort William and Edinburgh and supporting the 're-opening' of hospitality etc. in those areas. Glasgow is predominantly a business destination, so comparatively less traffic in the summer holiday season. Worth remembering the sleeper is still under an Emergency Measures Agreement (EMA) and hence effectively funded entirely Transport Scotland / the government at the moment.

Passengers for Glasgow can either go to/from Queen Street on the Fort William portion, or a day train to/from Edinburgh.

 

[Exoskeletal]

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone has any info on which areas the Class 73 is under electric power (if it is at all) on the Caledonian route to Inverness? If you have a legitimate-looking source that would be great too because this is for a project. Thanks in advance

 

[TimboM]

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone has any info on which areas the Class 73 is under electric power (if it is at all) on the Caledonian route to Inverness? If you have a legitimate-looking source that would be great too because this is for a project. Thanks in advance

None whatsoever.

Legitimate source: there is no Third Rail...!!

 

[alistairlees]

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone has any info on which areas the Class 73 is under electric power (if it is at all) on the Caledonian route to Inverness? If you have a legitimate-looking source that would be great too because this is for a project. Thanks in advance

It is diesel power only all the way from Edinburgh to Inverness. So far as I know it no longer has any third rail capability - and, even if it did, this would be of little use in Scotland.

 

[TimboM]

It is diesel power only all the way from Edinburgh to Inverness. So far as I know it no longer has any third rail capability - and, even if it did, this would be of little use in Scotland.

The GBCS 73/9s still retain their DC kit and are Third Rail capable, should this ever be needed in future. I'm pretty sure all have had their shoes removed, though (most were taken off when the 73/9s received new wheels at Eastleigh) - so they'd need those put back on for them to run on Third Rail, however that's not a big job.

 

[alistairlees]

The GBCS 73/9s still retain their DC kit and are Third Rail capable, should this ever be needed in future. I'm pretty sure all have had their shoes removed, though (most were taken off when the 73/9s received new wheels at Eastleigh) - so they'd need those put back on for them to run on Third Rail, however that's not a big job.

I knew they had had the shoes removed but didn’t realise that that was all.

 

[MrEd]

It's to serve the summer/tourist market for Inverness, Fort William and Edinburgh and supporting the 're-opening' of hospitality etc. in those areas. Glasgow is predominantly a business destination, so comparatively less traffic in the summer holiday season. Worth remembering the sleeper is still under an Emergency Measures Agreement (EMA) and hence effectively funded entirely Transport Scotland / the government at the moment.

Not ‘shooting the messenger’, and I have no doubt that what you say is right, but it‘s strange in that case, then, that CS have made it quite clear on their website that passengers should only make bookings for the sleeper if their journey is ‘absolutely necessary’. Unless that is an old message from the days of strict lockdown, which they will remove on 15th? Most TOCs at the moment, even those which operate entirely within England where hospitality has re-opened, have made it quite clear that leisure travel is strongly discouraged while social distancing measures are needed on trains (though not necessarily against the law any more). I see entirely why this is the case, as trains have very limited capacity with the restrictions.

Presumably CS passengers are, for the moment, being asked to confirm that their journey is essential before booking (or asked for some proof of this when boarding)? I know that this is the case on CalMac ferries, and that police have also been (quite rightly) enforcing this in some Scotrail stations, turning away non-essential travellers. Will this practice continue after the 15th? In other words, are bookings for non-essential journeys on the sleeper accepted after July 15th? Or is it still essential travel only? I can imagine that a number of tourists might be attracted to the sleeper after 15th given that it provides socially distanced berths, but will they be allowed on it?

 

[TimboM]

Not ‘shooting the messenger’, and I have no doubt that what you say is right, but it‘s strange in that case, then, that CS have made it quite clear on their website that passengers should only make bookings for the sleeper if their journey is ‘absolutely necessary’. Unless that is an old message from the days of strict lockdown, which they will remove on 15th? Most TOCs at the moment, even those which operate entirely within England where hospitality has re-opened, have made it quite clear that leisure travel is strongly discouraged while social distancing measures are needed on trains (though not necessarily against the law any more). I see entirely why this is the case, as trains have very limited capacity with the restrictions.

Presumably CS passengers are, for the moment, being asked to confirm that their journey is essential before booking (or asked for some proof of this when boarding)? I know that this is the case on CalMac ferries, and that police have also been (quite rightly) enforcing this in some Scotrail stations, turning away non-essential travellers. Will this practice continue after the 15th? In other words, are bookings for non-essential journeys on the sleeper accepted after July 15th? Or is it still essential travel only? I can imagine that a number of tourists might be attracted to the sleeper after 15th given that it provides socially distanced berths, but will they be allowed on it?

It's consistent with the Scottish Government's indicative dates for moving from Phase 2 to (early) Phase 3: https://www.gov.scot/publications/c...ates-remainder-phase-2-early-phase-3/pages/2/

Of note:

All holiday accommodation permitted (following relevant guidance) - 15 July

Indoor hospitality (subject to physical distancing rules and public health advice) - 15 July

Museums, galleries, cinemas, monuments, libraries - with physical distancing and other measures (e.g. ticketing in advance) - 15 July

15 July is evidently the planned date for re-opening leisure/tourist activities (to a degree) in Scotland, hence the change in Sleeper operations from that date to a service that supports tourism and leisure rather than essential travel/business.

 

[43096]

None whatsoever.

Legitimate source: there is no Third Rail...!!

Technically you might argue they are on electric power the whole way as they are diesel-electrics, just the power source is a diesel engine rather than a third rail.

 

[route101]

Technically you might argue they are on electric power the whole way as they are diesel-electrics, just the power source is a diesel engine rather than a third rail.

The Class 73s used to confuse me, are there many 73s running around the SE on THIRD RAIL?

 

[route101]

Not ‘shooting the messenger’, and I have no doubt that what you say is right, but it‘s strange in that case, then, that CS have made it quite clear on their website that passengers should only make bookings for the sleeper if their journey is ‘absolutely necessary’. Unless that is an old message from the days of strict lockdown, which they will remove on 15th? Most TOCs at the moment, even those which operate entirely within England where hospitality has re-opened, have made it quite clear that leisure travel is strongly discouraged while social distancing measures are needed on trains (though not necessarily against the law any more). I see entirely why this is the case, as trains have very limited capacity with the restrictions.

Presumably CS passengers are, for the moment, being asked to confirm that their journey is essential before booking (or asked for some proof of this when boarding)? I know that this is the case on CalMac ferries, and that police have also been (quite rightly) enforcing this in some Scotrail stations, turning away non-essential travellers. Will this practice continue after the 15th? In other words, are bookings for non-essential journeys on the sleeper accepted after July 15th? Or is it still essential travel only? I can imagine that a number of tourists might be attracted to the sleeper after 15th given that it provides socially distanced berths, but will they be allowed on it?

Scotrail are still putting out that no essential message, its getting a bit long in the tooth now with bars and non essential shops opening. I seen a fair few getting off at Glasgow Central going to the shops. Its not enforced.

I would interesting at using the sleeper from Inverness later in the summer as a quickish way to get down to the South of England.

 

[JohnMcL7]

How do the 73's reverse at Inverness? I was assuming they reverse out, swap ends then reverse back in since the shunter can't haul the mk5 coaches but was wondering why the 73's were sitting out on their own yesterday around midday which I've not seen before:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trains/i-dGfp9Hx/0/3368552f/X3/SA908604-X3.jpg

 

[Oscar46016]

How do the 73's reverse at Inverness? I was assuming they reverse out, swap ends then reverse back in since the shunter can't haul the mk5 coaches but was wondering why the 73's were sitting out on their own yesterday around midday which I've not seen before:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trains/i-dGfp9Hx/0/3368552f/X3/SA908604-X3.jpg

They ran as light engines not ECS

 

[Oscar46016]

The Class 73s used to confuse me, are there many 73s running around the SE on THIRD RAIL?

I think there is one at Brighton at the moment and they work east grinstead - not sure if they are on 3rd rail or not

 

[TimboM]

The Class 73s used to confuse me, are there many 73s running around the SE on THIRD RAIL?

GB have around nine operational "original" (ish) spec 73/1s - mainly third rail with small diesel engines designed for depot use etc. They work on the Third Rail still, particularly seasonal RHTT and SITT workings, but other things too.

There's also five "southern" 73/9s which are similar, but not the same as their Scottish sleeper cousins. They typically work NR test trains (and can/do work on the Third Rail still). They do venture north more than the 73/1s when working the Infrastructure Monitoring trains.

They ran as light engines not ECS

Are you getting confused with today? There wasn't a 73/9 light engine move to/from Inverness yesterday? (But was one today.)

 

[Oscar46016]

Yes - confused!

 

[JohnMcL7]

They ran as light engines not ECS

I don't understand what you mean?

 

[TimboM]

I don't understand what you mean?

I think @Oscar46016 was getting confused with today, when an additional pair ran to Inverness light engine to work 1M16 south tonight (after 73967 failed on 1S25 this morning).

 

[MrEd]

15 July is evidently the planned date for re-opening leisure/tourist activities (to a degree) in Scotland, hence the change in Sleeper operations from that date to a service that supports tourism and leisure rather than essential travel/business.

When hotels reopen in Scotland, on 15 July, does that mean that the sleeper crews will once again lodge in hotels during the day, or will the Lockerbie crew swap still take place to ensure that the crew are back home each morning?

 

[TimboM]

When hotels reopen in Scotland, on 15 July, does that mean that the sleeper crews will once again lodge in hotels during the day, or will the Lockerbie crew swap still take place to ensure that the crew are back home each morning?

Lockerbie swap still happening.

 

[Oscar46016]

I think @Oscar46016 was getting confused with today, when an additional pair ran to Inverness light engine to work 1M16 south tonight (after 73967 failed on 1S25 this morning).

So was it 70&71 on the sleeper last night and this morning? Looking on Railcam it says 68&70&71?

 

[trebor79]

Not ‘shooting the messenger’, and I have no doubt that what you say is right, but it‘s strange in that case, then, that CS have made it quite clear on their website that passengers should only make bookings for the sleeper if their journey is ‘absolutely necessary’. Unless that is an old message from the days of strict lockdown, which they will remove on 15th? Most TOCs at the moment, even those which operate entirely within England where hospitality has re-opened, have made it quite clear that leisure travel is strongly discouraged while social distancing measures are needed on trains (though not necessarily against the law any more).

Leisure travel has never been against the law, other than the period that there was a general prohibition on leaving the home other than for specific purposes.
Any journey that is or was legal by car is and was legal by train.
"Guidance" said otherwise, but guidance is not the law.

 

[Hooligan]

So was it 70&71 on the sleeper last night and this morning? Looking on Railcam it says 68&70&71?

Yes 70 & 71, 68 hauled 68 back to Craigentinny early yesterday evening