Caledonian Sleeper

[Clayton]

Serco are losing tens of millions - the reality is they are going to offer the bare minimum and not all manner of things over and above the bare minimum.

That’s not how customer service works. For a premium product like this they need to keep customers happy or they will go to the wall.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s not how customer service works. For a premium product like this they need to keep customers happy or they will go to the wall.

Precisely. If they were selling Bargain Berths at 20 quid a pop that would be fair, but at premium prices it is taking the mick. The Marriott wouldn't treat their customers that way, and neither should CS.

 

[WesternLancer]

That’s not how customer service works. For a premium product like this they need to keep customers happy or they will go to the wall.

Yes, tho in the fantasy capitalism of UK rail they know that if the losses get too bad you can just hand in the keys and walk away...

 

[47271]

Can we may be swing back to another likelihood that I've mentioned a couple of times upthread but has been largely ignored by most posters?

That Serco's management is competent and knew full well that the trains weren't ready and the staff weren't adequately trained, but that it was Transport Scotland that applied pressure for implementation when it did?

I've said many times that I'm not convinced of Serco's business model, a model which was accepted by TS, but that model isn't the cause of what's being experienced in the here and now. The luxury suggested by CS marketing and pricing might be the cause of increased upset when things go wrong, but that's still not the direct reason for failed service at a more basic level.

I suggest that we think a lot more about TS and their role in this shambles. They do have form in other areas after all...

 

[bravesirrobin]

Both Glasgow and Edinburgh stock have now left Polmadie (70 late and 23 late respectively). I believe there was a fatality earlier at Newton which may have delayed the services leaving the depot.

Thanks! As is often the case, while commenting on such matters things start to move.

Slightly cross because the usually helpful LNER desk at Waverley was unable to tell me how to collect TOD tickets when computer says no. All they could say was I had the wrong reference, but were unable/unwilling to tell me which one I need. And unwilling to allow me to hunt through their site. /OT

Boarding at 2250 according to the lounge host!

 

[Hadders]

Just passed Longsight and it looks like all the Sleeper carriages have now passed through the wheel large shed. They’re all parked on the south side of the shed, this morning when I passed there were some north and some south.

 

[Hadders]

Slightly cross because the usually helpful LNER desk at Waverley was unable to tell me how to collect TOD tickets when computer says no. All they could say was I had the wrong reference, but were unable/unwilling to tell me which one I need. And unwilling to allow me to hunt through their site. /OT

This potentially warrants it’s own thread. I’m travelling on the seated Sleeper between FTW and GLQ in a few days time. I couldn’t collect my tickets from the LNER machine at Stevenage, nor could the helpful staff in the travel centre print then either (kept coming up with an error). Tried the GTR machines at Stevenage and they wouldn’t play ball either.

Finally managed to get them to print at a VTWC TVM.

 

[WesternLancer]

Can we may be swing back to another likelihood that I've mentioned a couple of times upthread but has been largely ignored by most posters?

That Serco's management is competent and knew full well that the trains weren't ready and the staff weren't adequately trained, but that it was Transport Scotland that applied pressure for implementation when it did?

I've said many times that I'm not convinced of Serco's business model, a model which was accepted by TS, but that model isn't the cause of what's being experienced in the here and now. The luxury suggested by CS marketing and pricing might be the cause of increased upset when things go wrong, but that's still not the direct reason for failed service at a more basic level.

I suggest that we think a lot more about TS and their role in this shambles. They do have form in other areas after all...

I think this is very much an important point you make. Tho not of itself a good reason NOT to have a sensible customer service compensation option as mentioned in the thread by many, for when things go wrong.

And presumably SERCO told TS that they could deliver on this when they made the bid (ie I doubt bid has words to the effect of 'please accept this bid but bear in mind we probably can't meet the timescales for new stock roll out we have indicated in our full submission which we otherwise feel meets your requirements for the costs detailed')

 

[Chrism20]

Serco are losing tens of millions - the reality is they are going to offer the bare minimum and not all manner of things over and above the bare minimum.

If they keep carrying on like this there will be more tens of millions lost.

Like it or not they are flogging luxury accommodation and conveyance between Scotland & London and are point blank failing to deliver even the bare minimum at the moment at times.

It's only a matter of time until one of these well heeled types take this shower to task.

 

[bravesirrobin]

This potentially warrants it’s own thread. I’m travelling on the seated Sleeper between FTW and GLQ in a few days time. I couldn’t collect my tickets from the LNER machine at Stevenage, nor could the helpful staff in the travel centre print then either (kept coming up with an error). Tried the GTR machines at Stevenage and they wouldn’t play ball either.

Finally managed to get them to print at a VTWC TVM.

I should probably hasten to add these weren't sleeper tickets for tonight, but for my return on LNER later this week. I'll try again later this week when I'm less tired, grumpy and tipsy.

 

[stepho]

I think CS would do well to get the new highland stock available ASAP and available to be swapped in/out as needed on the lowlander until these issues are sorted. Moving to the new stock on all routes full time feels many months off.

 

[gavin]

What's tonight's issue with the London bound sleeper from Glasgow departed 2-hours late almost

 

[Glenn1969]

Tonight's Lowlander left Glasgow at 2335 as per RTT. Looks like another long night of troubles for CS and its guests

 

[Maxfly]

With regard to the potential closure in October, NR have just applied for temporary planning permission for a work site next to the horseshoe viaduct betwee tyndrum and bridge of orchy. This is the location of the work requiring the line closure, but doesn't of course say when it will take place.

There will be several worksites during the closure but this could well be one, both viaducts are getting full refurbishment so guess the decks would likely be done during the closure with paint and metalwork being done in the same style as loch awe is currently. Would still like to see the sleeper in Oban during this but doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen.

 

[47271]

I think this is very much an important point you make. Tho not of itself a good reason NOT to have a sensible customer service compensation option as mentioned in the thread by many, for when things go wrong.

And presumably SERCO told TS that they could deliver on this when they made the bid (ie I doubt bid has words to the effect of 'please accept this bid but bear in mind we probably can't meet the timescales for new stock roll out we have indicated in our full submission which we otherwise feel meets your requirements for the costs detailed')

I totally agree on Serco's responsibilities, I'm just saying that there's a hidden hand here that's probably making a bad situation worse by insisting on actions that the operator knows to be unwise.

 

[Mainliner]

Can we may be swing back to another likelihood that I've mentioned a couple of times upthread but has been largely ignored by most posters?

That Serco's management is competent...

Maybe it’s been largely ignored due to the premise at the end of the extract above...

Wouldn’t any half-competent franchisee have implemented one or more of the low cost quick win solutions to alleviate the late boarding issues, as suggested in this thread?

 

[6Z09]

Can we may be swing back to another likelihood that I've mentioned a couple of times upthread but has been largely ignored by most posters?

That Serco's management is competent and knew full well that the trains weren't ready and the staff weren't adequately trained, but that it was Transport Scotland that applied pressure for implementation when it did?

I've said many times that I'm not convinced of Serco's business model, a model which was accepted by TS, but that model isn't the cause of what's being experienced in the here and now. The luxury suggested by CS marketing and pricing might be the cause of increased upset when things go wrong, but that's still not the direct reason for failed service at a more basic level.

I suggest that we think a lot more about TS and their role in this shambles. They do have form in other areas after all...

If Serco management are as competent as you suggest the threat of industrial action by staff would not be hanging over proceedings!
The hidden hand is the ludicrous marketing of the undeliverable hotel on wheels nonsense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think CS would do well to get the new highland stock available ASAP and available to be swapped in/out as needed on the lowlander until these issues are sorted. Moving to the new stock on all routes full time feels many months off.

I completely agree. Get the Highlander stock in service but don't put it on the Highlander, instead have two spare half-sets at each end to swap in as necessary.

Perhaps even as a matter of course only use each set every other day to allow time for fixes.

 

[31160]

But they will have loads of bookings for the new style rooms that they will have to cancel cant imagine that going down well at all

 

[Chrism20]

But they will have loads of bookings for the new style rooms that they will have to cancel cant imagine that going down well at all

If the option is continue running the Highlander with the old stock to ensure that the Lowlander reliability sorts itself out I know which option I’d be going with.

There will undoubtedly be cancellations but realistically the vast majority will have already have pre-booked accommodation etc at their destinations so cancellation may not be an option.

A decent bit of service recovery and goodwill (something CS aren’t exactly great at by all accounts) rather than an apology email (if you even get that) and a £20 refund would probably go a long way to calming many of the passengers/guests down and should address their disappointment.

 

[gordonjahn]

Perhaps even as a matter of course only use each set every other day to allow time for fixes.

Whoa there - that might.... make the service run better AND improve true quality of the offering!?!

 

[Bletchleyite]

But they will have loads of bookings for the new style rooms that they will have to cancel cant imagine that going down well at all

It'll go down better, if people are notified in advance and offered a refund with plenty of time to make other arrangements, than things not working on the night.

 

[Northhighland]

Seems to me the sensible thing to do when in a hole is stop digging. Introducing more stock that wont work properly is not a good idea. It just magnifies the problem and the number of people that are annoyed resulting on more negative publicity. So for me get as many coaches into service as possible and swap them in and out on the lowlander routes until they are trouble free. Continue with classic sets in the North, we are used to that anyway.

Some where though someone has to surely look at how new rolling stock is introduced into the UK. Every introduction seems to have serious delays and problems. Lessons don't seem to be learned from projects across the network. Timescales are always way too optimistic, never delivered. Hard to see why this can't be improved upon by skills sharing and lessons learned.

 

[BRX]

The mk3s that were already scrapped were coming up for exams that would have required a lot of expensive work, as I understand it. Does this apply to the remaining mk3s as well? In other words is there a date beyond which it will become very expensive for CS if the Highlander isn't swapped over, and which will lead to significant pressure to do the swap even if it's known that the new stock is not properly ready?

This is one of the big problems with the franchise system isn't it - when things are going badly, there comes a point where the operator is incentivised to do things that don't make sense in the long term. CS might make a calculation that the losses involved in running faulty new stock are smaller than the losses involved in paying for the old stock to run for a bit longer, but missing from that calculation is the long term damage it does to the perception of the reliability of the service, damage which an operator doesn't care about if it's got to the point where it just wants to fulfil the minimum required by contract and get out asap, with no interest in running the service after that date.

 

[Mainliner]

Some where though someone has to surely look at how new rolling stock is introduced into the UK. Every introduction seems to have serious delays and problems.

As a matter of interest, does anyone know if the test CS Mk5s which travelled up and down the country actually carried a lot of people who tried to sleep (the primary feature of the train), and use the doors, toilets, showers, etc which have since been reported as faulty on numerous occasions?

 

[kingqueen]

The Riviera:

Though it is a very high quality refurb and is easily as good as new

It's not in disabled facilities.
There is no wheelchair access to the lounge car at all.

 

[47271]

As a matter of interest, does anyone know if the test CS Mk5s which travelled up and down the country actually carried a lot of people who tried to sleep (the primary feature of the train), and use the doors, toilets, showers, etc which have since been reported as faulty on numerous occasions?

A few staff as I understand it. Noone from the general public got on board until the press launch event in early April.

 

[Bassman]

A unit of 8 coaches has been based at Inverness this last week for testing/training. Mk3s/Mk2s this evening and for the time being.

When the Mk5s do launch on the Highlander the current plan is to introduce them northbound one night then southbound the next, as far easier to swap the sets over in one go at Wembley than when it’s split across Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William.

Thanks for this .. so no imminent change !

 

[Chrism20]

The mk3s that were already scrapped were coming up for exams that would have required a lot of expensive work, as I understand it. Does this apply to the remaining mk3s as well? In other words is there a date beyond which it will become very expensive for CS if the Highlander isn't swapped over, and which will lead to significant pressure to do the swap even if it's known that the new stock is not properly ready?

It wouldn’t surprise me if we get to that stage, I’m sure someone here will probably know the situation with exams although they may not be comfortable sharing that info.

If we do get to that stage though CS really need to get some service recovery plan in place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not in disabled facilities.
There is no wheelchair access to the lounge car at all.

Is the Mk3 intercoach gangway wide enough for wheelchairs? If not, that isn't even going to be possible. Though I suppose the Canadians have an answer - have the accessible compartment actually in the lounge car vehicle.