Cambrian Six Car DMU's Scuppered by Network Rail metal fencing

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Gareth Marston

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The six car formation promised by ATW on the Cambrian this summer (1007 Machynlleth to Birmingham International) has not appeared due to the available platform length at Caersws having been shortened by metal fencing put up by NR when the level crossing was automated in March 2011. ATW 158's do not have selective door opening.

Despite there being no recorded instance of a passenger accident when the barriers were manual gates - the ramp off the platform at the level crossing end and part of the platform was encased in metal fencing to prevent passengers accessing the track.
 
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4SRKT

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Progress eh? Who else remembers 8+ car DMUS on the Cambrian?
 

4SRKT

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or double-header Class 25s.

And the magic tractors. All stopping at Caersws, natch. Without selective door opening, and with hundreds of the most drunken, irresponsible cranks you could imagine on board....... Ahhh! <looks wistful>
 

merlodlliw

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The six car formation promised by ATW on the Cambrian this summer (1007 Machynlleth to Birmingham International) has not appeared due to the available platform length at Caersws having been shortened by metal fencing put up by NR when the level crossing was automated in March 2011. ATW 158's do not have selective door opening.

Despite there being no recorded instance of a passenger accident when the barriers were manual gates - the ramp off the platform at the level crossing end and part of the platform was encased in metal fencing to prevent passengers accessing the track.

All the bragging by Mike Bagshaw(ATW Director) of extra capacity etc, in his letter to stakeholders April. Welcome to the club Gareth.Anywhere North of Newport is lost in ATWs Cardiff based oblivion,

Bob
 

The Planner

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Personally it does sound like a bit of a balls up on ATWs part, they should have been notified of the change from NR via Network or Station Change procedures. They would have had the chance to dispute it at the time if they had planned for 6 car usage. Unless of course the fencing was put back further than originally specified whereupon it is a right can of worms.
 

EM2

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Another own goal by Not Work Rail. Once again, I expect they'll blame the train operator, of course.
Seeing as they were recently fined £1m for a level crossing fatality at Elsenham, surely they have to demonstrate that they have taken steps to eliminate the risk at Caersws?
 

John55

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The six car formation promised by ATW on the Cambrian this summer (1007 Machynlleth to Birmingham International) has not appeared due to the available platform length at Caersws having been shortened by metal fencing put up by NR when the level crossing was automated in March 2011. ATW 158's do not have selective door opening.

Despite there being no recorded instance of a passenger accident when the barriers were manual gates - the ramp off the platform at the level crossing end and part of the platform was encased in metal fencing to prevent passengers accessing the track.

Looking on Google street view which shows the fencing during the installation and commissioning of the new crossing, the new fencing does not shorten the platform as it just covers the ramp which as far as I am aware does not constitute part of the usable platform.

Could you elaborate as to the problem? The platform does not look long enough for a 6 x 23m long DMU whether the ramp is included or not.

It is clear to me at least that the new gates etc need the ramps and immediate area to be modified to reduce the likelyhood of stray pedestrians being trapped between the closed gates but the fencing doesn't reduce the length of the platform.
 

The Planner

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Valid point actually, if the TPRs and appendix are correct, Caersws is only 109m in length anyway, you can't get a 5 car on, let alone 6.
 

the-gog

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I have a feeling that this is a smokescreen for the real excuse for the non-introduction of 6-car 158s, whatever that may be.
 

jamess

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I was told by 2 members of the ATW commercial department at ATW, that it is due to the ERTMS not allowing a 6 car train to be split into a 4 and 2 car portion at Aberystwyth. Block limits on the platform are the problem allegedly.
 

headshot119

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Can't they just do what they do with every other platform they stop 158s it in, when the platform is to long, and simply just open the local door?
 

GadgetMan

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Under Central we used to manually flick the 'red flag' (valve) above the doors to isolate certain doors out of use for short platforms. After departing said stations the air supply to the doors could then be reconnected.

Is this no longer allowed?
 

Scotrail84

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Can't they just do what they do with every other platform they stop 158s it in, when the platform is to long, and simply just open the local door?

It's called one door working but it eats up time at stations getting all the passengers boarding/alighting to the local door.
 

Scotrail84

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Under Central we used to manually flick the 'red flag' (valve) above the doors to isolate certain doors out of use for short platforms. After departing said stations the air supply to the doors could then be reconnected.

Is this no longer allowed?

I was never instructed to do that by my toc when one door working and certainly wouldn't attempt that incase of a door opened in motion due a fault after buggering around with red flags.
 

The Planner

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I was told by 2 members of the ATW commercial department at ATW, that it is due to the ERTMS not allowing a 6 car train to be split into a 4 and 2 car portion at Aberystwyth. Block limits on the platform are the problem allegedly.

Don't think that is the issue as it is likely to be a 4 car from Aberystwyth which joins with a 2 car from the Coast in this instance. It must be an issue at Mach as I think the marker boards at the up end are short of the platform ramps so the 6 car will be in two sections at once.
 

DarloRich

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Another own goal by Not Work Rail. Once again, I expect they'll blame the train operator, of course.

How so? It couldnt be that the TOC didnt respond to the Network Change/Station Change request in time to lodge an objection and work together to get a soultion or that the TOC simply dropped the ball & missed it could it?

But hey, you know best.
 

hluraven

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Another own goal by Not Work Rail. Once again, I expect they'll blame the train operator, of course.

So last week you blamed "politicians" for TOCs proposing to cut ticket office opening hours before it being pointed out it was the other way round, and now you are blaming NR for a TOC not knowing how long a platform is and using a false excuse? It's everyone's fault but the TOC for everything I guess :roll:
 

exile

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It's called one door working but it eats up time at stations getting all the passengers boarding/alighting to the local door.

Surely most of the stations affected have very small passenger numbers....
 

merlodlliw

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Surely most of the stations affected have very small passenger numbers....

Like the North Wales coast, the Cambrian is busy in Summer & winter diagrams can not cope, however in my opinion its not NR at fault, if ATW had consulted the stakeholders prior to introduction of the May timetable someone would have pointed this out, ATW keen to impress as not done its homework and fault lies with ATW alone. imposing changes without timetable consultation backfired.

Bob
 

Gareth Marston

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Thanks for the comments I was flying a kite a bit with the jungle drum version that's come out of ATW.

For 120 years a passenger or someone else could walk down the ramp or come off station road on the village side by the signal box and get in-between the closed gates track side (1891 being the box opening date) up until 1987 there was a passing loop there as well. Having grown up in the village, done work experience in the box and visited it regular I can never recall any incident.

13 Mk Ones and a pair of 37's were regular stoppers at the village until early 90's. Summer 85 was the gricer invasion as about 50 gricers spilled off a westbound loco hauled and waited 20 mins (if on time) for the next eastbound loco hauled- first summer after end of 25's - 37/0's short of work due to miners strike. Must have been urban dwellers as one Saturday they decided to have football match in nearby field as trains were chronically late- only trouble it had just been muck spread. Guard refused them onboard as they were "health hazard" - left village on DMU after going down river to wash clothes!

A lot of Cambrian platforms were short - Newtown, DOWN side at Machynlleth.

Footfall was 47000 in 2010/2011 on 8 trains a day, 6 on Sunday an average of about 9 per train.
 

reb0118

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Under Central we used to manually flick the 'red flag' (valve) above the doors to isolate certain doors out of use for short platforms. After departing said stations the air supply to the doors could then be reconnected.

Is this no longer allowed?

Definitely a no-no on a 158 these days. A fair few doors have sprung open in traffic as a result. All door isolation/de-isolation must take place whilst stationary.

I was never instructed to do that by my TOC when one door working and certainly wouldn't attempt that in case of a door opened in motion due a fault after buggering around with red flags.

Spot on!

There is a work around though. Guard opens local door normally then as many other doors via the "butterfly" as necessary for the volume of pax boarding/alighting. Takes a bit longer (but not much longer) than normal door operation but allows the use of longer trains. Can't see a big time penalty at Caersws though?
 

GadgetMan

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I was never instructed to do that by my toc when one door working and certainly wouldn't attempt that incase of a door opened in motion due a fault after buggering around with red flags.

It would not cause a door to open unexpectedly. All you are effectively doing is locking a door(s) out of use and then reinstating it after the affected station.

I was only curious as this was the way we were trained to work 158s on short platforms.
 

merlodlliw

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Thanks for the comments I was flying a kite a bit with the jungle drum version that's come out of ATW.

For 120 years a passenger or someone else could walk down the ramp or come off station road on the village side by the signal box and get in-between the closed gates track side (1891 being the box opening date) up until 1987 there was a passing loop there as well. Having grown up in the village, done work experience in the box and visited it regular I can never recall any incident.

13 Mk Ones and a pair of 37's were regular stoppers at the village until early 90's. Summer 85 was the gricer invasion as about 50 gricers spilled off a westbound loco hauled and waited 20 mins (if on time) for the next eastbound loco hauled- first summer after end of 25's - 37/0's short of work due to miners strike. Must have been urban dwellers as one Saturday they decided to have football match in nearby field as trains were chronically late- only trouble it had just been muck spread. Guard refused them onboard as they were "health hazard" - left village on DMU after going down river to wash clothes!

A lot of Cambrian platforms were short - Newtown, DOWN side at Machynlleth.

Footfall was 47000 in 2010/2011 on 8 trains a day, 6 on Sunday an average of about 9 per train.

Despite all the spin from ATW/WG Rail Unit et al, there remains, no extra capacity or extra services on the Cambrian. Its now beyond a joke.


This is what Mike Bagshaw Director of ATW told the Welsh Affairs Select Committee last Monday. This quote is lifted from Parliament Web Site.

Mike Bagshaw: All of those extra seats have been allocated to trains that were previously crowded. We looked at some of the most crowded trains on our network, we did an extensive review of our train plan, and we allocated trains accordingly. For example, on some of the most crowded trains on the Cambrian route from Aberystwyth, we have been able to put on additional carriages over the summer period.

One wonders his he aware of what we know when he spins Parliament. I am sure SARPA have made the Committee aware the extra coaches are not attached.
 
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Gareth Marston

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This came out of ATW Officially at Shrewsbury - Aber line Liaison Committee last Friday....
that an office in London needs to formally approve something seems bonkers.

the attaching at Aberystwith is ERTMS related and needs to be risk assessed and formally approved by ORR. This is proving to be more complex than originally envisaged so probably won't happen this summer. I can confirm and proving to be successful is the strengthening of the 0809 Birmingham - Aberystwyth this is happening throughout .
 
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