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Cambridge ticket machine overcharging!

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gingerheid

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I've just tried to buy an off peak day return from Cambridge to Norwich for £16.20.

Neither me nor the person behind me could work out how to get it from the ticket machine, and when I did get the ticket from the ticket office it wouldn't work in the barrier.

Is this a common problem?

And would I have been expected to do if the station had been unstaffed?
 
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Deerfold

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I've just tried to buy an off peak day return from Cambridge to Norwich for £16.20.

Neither me nor the person behind me could work out how to get it from the ticket machine, and when I did get the ticket from the ticket office it wouldn't work in the barrier.

Is this a common problem?

And would I have been expected to do if the station had been unstaffed?

How much did the machine want to charge you?
 

MichaelAMW

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It is valid from 08.45. Perhaps the machine doesn't offer it before then.

(OP's message at 08.05 said "I've just tried to...")
 

transmanche

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gingerheid

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It was trying to sell me the 21.60 off peak return, and this was at 0850.
 

greatkingrat

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The off-peak return is valid after 0900 while the off-peak day return is valid after 0845 so I wonder if they got the two restrictions mixed up when programming the ticket machine?
 

MichaelAMW

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Shows as 09:05 here. Is your device showing GMT rather than BST?

Well, whadd'ya know - you're right! Though only this forum but nothing else, e.g. email, Google groups, clock are all BST, and only when I'm not logged in - now I am, to write this message, the OP says 09.05.
 
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transmanche

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Well, whadd'ya know - you're right! Though only this forum but nothing else, e.g. email, Google groups, clock are all BST.
Ah, could be the timezone in your forum settings? In the control panel under Edit Options and Date & Time Options, my settings look like this - HTH.
 

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Zoidberg

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Ah, could be the timezone in your forum settings? In the control panel under Edit Options and Date & Time Options, my settings look like this - HTH.

From the outside world the forum times show as GMT. Once one logs in, the times are displayed as BST.

The settings to which you are referring will only influence what is displayed once one logs in.
 

MichaelAMW

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From the outside world the forum times show as GMT. Once one logs in, the times are displayed as BST.

The settings to which you are referring will only influence what is displayed once one logs in.

Ah, that was certainly my oversight... Thanks to you both.
 

island

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And would I have been expected to do if the station had been unstaffed?

Assuming there's a missing "what" in there, the correct procedure is to buy a ticket from the machine that allows you to start your journey and then part-exchange it for the ticket you want at your destination or on the train.
 
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I've just tried to buy an off peak day return from Cambridge to Norwich for £16.20.

Neither me nor the person behind me could work out how to get it from the ticket machine, and when I did get the ticket from the ticket office it wouldn't work in the barrier.

Is this a common problem?

And would I have been expected to do if the station had been unstaffed?

Slightly off topic but the Anglia Plus Rover is better value at £17, it also includes the bus into town (Norwich & Ipswich) with First Gtoup

Or the 3 in 7 Anglia Plus £34
 

gingerheid

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On the way back I checked and the machine was offering the ticket, so it must be a time thing.

Cambridge station is notorious for really long potential delays buying tickets at the weekend and in the summer ( http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/New...s-are-derailing-growth-potential-22102012.htm ), so I don't think it was excessive to try and by the ticket 22 mins before the train departed.

Additionally, at any time from 0844 at the latest onwards the the ticket I was trying to buy was valid on the next train, so for that reason as well I would think that they should have been selling it!

I've contacted them, we'll see what they say.

Assuming there's a missing "what" in there, the correct procedure is to buy a ticket from the machine that allows you to start your journey and then part-exchange it for the ticket you want at your destination or on the train.

Thanks, my instinct would have been to buy a ticket to the closest station to Norwich that was at or under the price of the correct ticket...

Slightly off topic but the Anglia Plus Rover is better value at £17, it also includes the bus into town (Norwich & Ipswich) with First Gtoup

Or the 3 in 7 Anglia Plus £34

Thanks for the tip, but I usually walk into the city anyway!
 
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furlong

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Cambridge station is notorious for really long potential delays buying tickets at the weekend and in the summer ( http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/New...s-are-derailing-growth-potential-22102012.htm ),

That dates back to October. Is it still a problem? The operator must use its reasonable endeavours to ensure that no-one has to queue to purchase a rail product for more than five minutes during times of peak demand.

In the circumstances described, I would have thought that reasonable endeavours include authorising people to travel and pay on the train or at their destination.

Nobody should have to miss a train due to an excessively long queue for a ticket.
 

gingerheid

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Obviously that day was extreme (but not so extreme it didn't happen several weekends in a row), or it wouldn't have been in the paper. However I would say that it would be a miracle of you were able to buy a ticket at Cambridge in peak times in less than five mins.

New ticket hall is being built, but in the meantime they could do more. Recently they replaced the tvms. There was room to add more if they'd wanted to, but they didn't. Often they supplement the ticket counters with a person with a portable machine near the ticket machines and near the end of the queue, but yesterday they didn't have that either.

The suggestion that you can buy online was a bit cute, and to me demonstrates their attitude to the issue. Buy online; fine. And how are you going to pick it up???
 
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jon0844

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I don't go to Cambridge that often, but found that when gateline staff were issuing tickets and dealing with people it meant they weren't able to let me out when I had a FCC day pass/voucher as part of having an annual season ticket.

Thus, I've been made to queue up simply to exit the station more than once.
 

jopsuk

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The machine on the right, that takes cards and cash, seems not to offer off-peak tickets in the morning peak. THe three others, that only take cards, offer all tickets at all times of day as far as I can tell.

And yes, the queue problems are still rife, especially on Saturday late morning. Very often all six office windows open, all four machines in action and two or more revenue staff with portable equipment and the queues still fill the hall and spill out the door- sometimes down to the bus stops.

And gingerheid makes a good point- most people buying online go for ticket on departure. Which puts you in the queue for those four machines.
 
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jon0844

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Sounds like there's a need for more machines that can just issue tickets pre-ordered, which could be a lot smaller and more plentiful.
 

jopsuk

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the card-only TVMs are as compact as needs be. Pretty sure Virgin used to have collection-only machines at Edinburgh Waverly (and elsewhere?).

The problem at Cambridge is that currently there's no space for more machines of any type. It needs the development pronto!

In fact, what it needs is a second entrance on the eastern side. And possibly even a couple of TVMs and a small gate-line on a connection from the upcoming multi-story bike park...
 
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the card-only TVMs are as compact as needs be. Pretty sure Virgin used to have collection-only machines at Edinburgh Waverly (and elsewhere?).

The problem at Cambridge is that currently there's no space for more machines of any type. It needs the development pronto!

In fact, what it needs is a second entrance on the eastern side. And possibly even a couple of TVMs and a small gate-line on a connection from the upcoming multi-story bike park...

They should have some machines outside in the street, should fix the problem, Newark Northgate has a couple of machines just outside the door
 

gingerheid

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I don't go to Cambridge that often, but found that when gateline staff were issuing tickets and dealing with people it meant they weren't able to let me out when I had a FCC day pass/voucher as part of having an annual season ticket.

Thus, I've been made to queue up simply to exit the station more than once.

Quite often when rush hour trains arrive there's such a crush at the barriers in both directions they just have to open them up.

The machine on the right, that takes cards and cash, seems not to offer off-peak tickets in the morning peak. THe three others, that only take cards, offer all tickets at all times of day as far as I can tell.

Spot on that man! I was trying to use the machine on the far right.

And yes, the queue problems are still rife, especially on Saturday late morning. Very often all six office windows open, all four machines in action and two or more revenue staff with portable equipment and the queues still fill the hall and spill out the door- sometimes down to the bus stops.

I've seen a large number of people queued out the door mid morning during the week as well. Recently one window has been out of action too (though it's open again now).

When the problems started to get bad I started buying tickets online and trying to pick them up the evening before, but the perfect time for me to try and pick up tickets on the way home was the exact time the TVMs have some kind of hairy fit because they're updating, so I had to give up on that. I tend to arrive at the station about 30 mins before my intended train, which after finding somewhere to leave my bike usually allows about 20-25 mins to buy a ticket. Even this sometimes sees me running for the train, which is annoying because of course it's a huge addition to the journey time (and time robbed straight from my time in bed!).

the card-only TVMs are as compact as needs be. Pretty sure Virgin used to have collection-only machines at Edinburgh Waverly (and elsewhere?).

The problem at Cambridge is that currently there's no space for more machines of any type. It needs the development pronto!

In fact, what it needs is a second entrance on the eastern side. And possibly even a couple of TVMs and a small gate-line on a connection from the upcoming multi-story bike park...

The development is both needed and coming, but I think they gave up trying far too long ago because they know the development is coming.

There is room for more TVMs in the ticket hall if they tried (the ones they installed recently are narrower and shallower than what they replaced, they could have squeezed an extra one in by squishing them together a bit. They could have squeezed a lot more in by turning them 90 degrees and putting pairs back to back). They could also have brought both sets of exits near bay platforms back into use if they'd wanted to. They could have more staff with portable machines if they wanted to.

But the development is coming, so they're just waiting for it.

I think there was a suggestion of an entrance on the other side (where there was room for all the multi storey car-parks the station needs...), but the residents were set against it; they reckoned all the streets around would get filled with commuter's cars.

The other thing that will help will be the north Cambridge station, which will hopefully take some of the strain off Cambridge. I would love to also see a south Cambridge station, with a park and ride site somewhere in the region of Addenbrooke's. I think that would finish the job.

Reply Received from Greater Anglia Customer Relations said:
I can confirm that our Off Peak ticket only become available on our ticket machines once the last peak time service has departed from the station.

I'll try this out next time I'm in the station at that time, but I don't think it's correct. Based on the time I know I left the house at, and given the time it took me to find somewhere to leave my bike, and given the time I bought the ticket at the window, I'm certain I would have been trying to buy the ticket from the machine after 0844.
 
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Mojo

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I thought Cambridge has always had an issue with queues? Remember in November 1999 the "Back to the floor" TV series had an episode with Giles Fearnley, then Chief Executive at Wagn and this was a big issue raised back then.
 

gingerheid

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I wouldn't know as I've only lived here a few years. However it's certainly got a lot worse over the last six or seven years.

Some improvements have been made, and more are planned, but there'll still be a long way to go. You can usually get a seat on peak time London services since they were extended to 12 carriages, but hideous overcrowding on Ely services starts early in the afternoon when the schools come out and then gets worse. In the summer Stansted Airport services usually see a lot more passengers and luggage than comfortably fits in a 2 carriage 170.
 
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I wouldn't know as I've only lived here a few years. However it's certainly got a lot worse over the last six or seven years.

Some improvements have been made, and more are planned, but there'll still be a long way to go. You can usually get a seat on peak time London services since they were extended to 12 carriages, but hideous overcrowding on Ely services starts early in the afternoon when the schools come out and then gets worse. In the summer Stansted Airport services usually see a lot more passengers and luggage than comfortably fits in a 2 carriage 170.

The Cross Country service to Ely is overcrowded which departs :00 each hour however the :12 GA Norwich service is empty

I always get the :12 train at least I get a seat :)
 

David Goddard

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Rip out the stupid gateline then they will have loads of room for additional TVMs. Problem solved!
 

jopsuk

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Part of the problem on weekdays is that there's big flows into Cambridge in the morning that start well before the peak flow out out of Cambridge has finished- and vice versa. At weekends, you get huge numbers going to London, at the same time as large numbers coming into Cambridge.

The service enhancements- longer trains mainly- seem to have just encouraged more people to use the trains. Which is a good thing, but the station area redevelopments which will deliver the better ticket hall have been evermore delayed.

Problem with putting additional machines outside is that there's not space there (on the current layout). The queues would interefere with the taxi queue/exit from the taxi rank/the drops offs on the already congested roundabout.
 
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