Can anyone recommend a good book on the history of French railways?

[S&CLER]

Can anyone tell me the title of a good book, in English or French, in print or out of print, on the history of railways in France?

I'm looking for something of the same standard as Jack Simmons on England and Wales or Gus Veenendaal on the railways in the Netherlands. Both are/were professional historians and also enthusiasts. Other books of a similar or slightly less academic level I have in mind are Legget on Canada, Kalla-Bishop on Hungary or Westwood on Russia.

There are "spotters" type books on European systems, many published by Platform 5, but these are not quite what I want.

All suggestions gratefully received.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I find that the best web sites for information on French railway history is to look for the Wiki sites describing the original main lines.
There will usually be a detailed one in French, and possibly in other languages but often in abbreviated form.

For example, if you look for Paris-Strasbourg Railway, you get an English site with a summary of the features of the line.
But click on the French version and you get a welter of facts including construction, opening dates, route descriptions and service details, such as electrification dates, together with a detailed route map and often a speed profile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris-Est–Strasbourg-Ville_railway
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Paris-Est_à_Strasbourg-Ville

You can always put the French through a translator, though the result may be rather peculiar, especially when dealing with lists and tables as railway histories often do.
The detailed route map usually has hot links to connecting routes, so you can hop from one map to another.

Paris-Marseille is another good one. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Paris-Lyon_à_Marseille-Saint-Charles
And Paris-Bordeaux (the original route via Orleans). https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Paris-Austerlitz_à_Bordeaux-Saint-Jean

It was only through these sorts of sites that I found out, for instance, that our Thomas Brassey built the Savoy Railway (Culoz-Chambery-Modane), including a temporary railway over the summit while the tunnel was being built.
I would not have guessed that this was built as the Victor Emmanuel Railway, before Savoy was part of France.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Culoz_à_Modane_(frontière)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Emmanuel_Railway

There are also separate Wiki sites dealing with the new LGV routes.

 

[S&CLER]

I find that the best web sites for information on French railway history is to look for the Wiki sites describing the original main lines.
There will usually be a detailed one in French, and possibly in other languages but often in abbreviated form.

For example, if you look for Paris-Strasbourg Railway, you get an English site with a summary of the features of the line.
But click on the French version and you get a welter of facts including construction, opening dates, route descriptions and service details, such as electrification dates, together with a detailed route map and often a speed profile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris-Est–Strasbourg-Ville_railway
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Paris-Est_à_Strasbourg-Ville

You can always put the French through a translator, though the result may be rather peculiar, especially when dealing with lists and tables as railway histories often do.
The detailed route map usually has hot links to connecting routes, so you can hop from one map to another.

Paris-Marseille is another good one. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Paris-Lyon_à_Marseille-Saint-Charles
And Paris-Bordeaux (the original route via Orleans). https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_Paris-Austerlitz_à_Bordeaux-Saint-Jean

It was only through these sorts of sites that I found out, for instance, that our Thomas Brassey built the Savoy Railway (Culoz-Chambery-Frejus), including a temporary railway over the summit while the tunnel was being built.
There are also separate sites dealing with the new LVG routes.

Many thanks for this, I shall certainly follow it up. I'm an almost retired translator myself, so French is no problem, as I can read it as fast as English. Most of my remaining work (only non-urgent deadlines since I turned 70) is about patent and trademark litigation in French- and Portuguese-speaking Africa, and offshore (Jersey) trusts, so not rail-related, but I have a copy of the UIC general lexicon of rail terms to help me with any technical vocabulary.

The pre-war editions of the Guide Bleu in French were divided into volumes that matched the big companies (Nord, Est, PLM, Midi P&O, Ouest-Etat) , and had useful maps and quite a bit of incidental rail information, being designed primarily for rail travellers.

 

[Calthrop]

Something of a specialised sector; but with France having had, at "rail peak", an enormous kilometrage of local railways -- standard and narrow gauge -- not belonging to the big companies merged into the SNCF in 1938, and thus not included in that merger: I'd heartily recommend Minor Railways of France by W.J.K. Davies (book is of course in English !) -- publ. 2000. To my mind it gives, country-wide, an excellently comprehensive history of these lesser lines, and description of their equipment, and guide to the -- relatively more numerous than one might imagine -- survivors. Well furnished with illustrating photographs, and with maps.

 

[Bungle965]

Something of a specialised sector; but with France having had, at "rail peak", an enormous kilometrage of local railways -- standard and narrow gauge -- not belonging to the big companies merged into the SNCF in 1938, and thus not included in that merger: I'd heartily recommend Minor Railways of France by W.J.K. Davies (book is of course in English !) -- publ. 2000. To my mind it gives, country-wide, an excellently comprehensive history of these lesser lines, and description of their equipment, and guide to the -- relatively more numerous than one might imagine -- survivors. Well furnished with illustrating photographs, and with maps.

I’ve just had a look for the book, however I cannot seem to find it anywhere for a reasonable price! Shame as I would have enjoyed reading it.
Sam

 

[bspahh]

I’ve just had a look for the book, however I cannot seem to find it anywhere for a reasonable price! Shame as I would have enjoyed reading it.
Sam

The edition from 2000 is £25.50 from https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781871980455/Minor-Railways-France-Davies-W.J.K-1871980453/plp or the one from 1965 is £14 https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30543784729

There are some more suggestions for books in this thread https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94138-book-on-french-railways/

 

[30907]

The edition from 2000 is £25.50 from https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781871980455/Minor-Railways-France-Davies-W.J.K-1871980453/plp or the one from 1965 is £14 https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30543784729

Just to clarify, these are different titles and different books (the 1965 one would be an interesting read because some lines were still in use or only recently closed, and I'm fairly sure Davies had visited some/all of them).

 

[Calthrop]

Just to clarify, these are different titles and different books (the 1965 one would be an interesting read because some lines were still in use or only recently closed, and I'm fairly sure Davies had visited some/all of them).

I read the 1965 version, long ago -- never owned a copy, alas. Very interesting in its own right; but a decidedly "slight" volume compared to its 2000 counterpart -- though of course the 1965 guide to "lines still running", has a greater content than the 2000 ditto ! The 2000 edition contains brief histories of, effectively, all the "non-big-companies" railway / tramway undertakings (excluding city tram networks) that there ever were in France; with departement-by-departement maps giving location and approximate configuration of all of same -- things which just could not be done in the 1965 edition, with its altogether far more modest size and scale: the '65 edition could basically manage only a general overview. And the 2000 book features far more photographs, than was possible for the 1965 one to encompass.

 

[SHD]

Can anyone tell me the title of a good book, in English or French, in print or out of print, on the history of railways in France?

I'm looking for something of the same standard as Jack Simmons on England and Wales or Gus Veenendaal on the railways in the Netherlands. Both are/were professional historians and also enthusiasts. Other books of a similar or slightly less academic level I have in mind are Legget on Canada, Kalla-Bishop on Hungary or Westwood on Russia.

There are "spotters" type books on European systems, many published by Platform 5, but these are not quite what I want.

All suggestions gratefully received.

Since you speak French fluently, I would recommend the three-volume Histoire du chemin de fer en France by François Caron. If you are specifically interested in rolling stock, Denis Redoutey’s books are for you. A fantastic online resource, academic in content and style, and freely accessible, is the Revue d’Histoire des chemins de fer: https://journals.openedition.org/rhcf/

 

[Taunton]

"Railway Holiday in France", by George Behrend (despite his name, in English, as he was), published 1964. Travelled around France with extensive informed commentary on the lines and their background. Nicely written in his usual style. I lost mine too many years ago to admit.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-l...rd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=

"Continental Railway Handbook" by John Snell (the man who was the first volunteer CME on the Talyllyn in the 1950s), published 1971. More railway-formal than Behrend.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/France-Continental-Railway-Handbook-Bernard/dp/071100207X

Both of these were part of a limited series, you find ones on other European countries as well, by other authors.

"On rails under Paris" by B J Prigmore, an LRTL book, published 1970, very detailed but of course dated - both system and rolling stock have very much moved on.
https://www.amazon.com/Rails-Under-Paris-B-J-Prigmore/dp/0900433353

Notice they are all old; not only does this point to me Interrailing in the 1970s but that despite Eurostar and cheap airfares etc since little more recent seems to have come along, though Capital Transport have done a more recent Paris Metro one.

 

[Calthrop]

"Railway Holiday in France", by George Behrend (despite his name, in English, as he was), published 1964. Travelled around France with extensive informed commentary on the lines and their background. Nicely written in his usual style. I lost mine too many years ago to admit.

A grand book. I feel a bit regretful that the author didn't take and tell of rather more journeys behind steam (still plentiful in France in 1963 if you went to the right places) than is the case in the book; but of course he -- very commendably -- samples and writes about "a bit of everything" railway-wise.

One bit of precisian nitpickery re Railway Holiday in France : Behrend mistakenly gives the gauge of the Villefranche -- La Tour de Carol third-rail-electric line as 1,150 mm -- it's metre-gauge plain and simple. I figure that the error came about, because in his The End Of The Line, Bryan Morgan -- self-confessedly a none too technical or numerate sort -- mistakenly gives this line's gauge as 1,150mm; and Behrend took this as correct, and thus followed suit.

 

[mailbyrail]

I have the 2000 book by WJK Davies which is a constant reference guide but following the mention on this thread of the 1965 version, I tracked down a very reasonably priced copy on the web. I'm pleased I did, it's a very readable summary of developments rather than the much greater detail in his 2000 book. The two complement each other rather than duplicate. An excellent addition to my library - and also very promptly despatched by the on-line seller - Mrmacbooks - who I've never come across before. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Gordon]

Can anyone tell me the title of a good book, in English or French, in print or out of print, on the history of railways in France?

I'm looking for something of the same standard as Jack Simmons on England and Wales or Gus Veenendaal on the railways in the Netherlands. Both are/were professional historians and also enthusiasts. Other books of a similar or slightly less academic level I have in mind are Legget on Canada, Kalla-Bishop on Hungary or Westwood on Russia.

There are "spotters" type books on European systems, many published by Platform 5, but these are not quite what I want.

All suggestions gratefully received.

You could join the French Railways Society. The society has a comprehensive library.

.

 

[Calthrop]

I have the 2000 book by WJK Davies which is a constant reference guide but following the mention on this thread of the 1965 version, I tracked down a very reasonably priced copy on the web. I'm pleased I did, it's a very readable summary of developments rather than the much greater detail in his 2000 book. The two complement each other rather than duplicate. An excellent addition to my library - and also very promptly despatched by the on-line seller - Mrmacbooks - who I've never come across before. Thanks for the suggestion!

"I see where you're coming from" here: am toying with the idea of at least looking at buying a copy of the 1965 version.

 

[trivran]

Can anyone tell me the title of a good book, in English or French, in print or out of print, on the history of railways in France?

I'm looking for something of the same standard as Jack Simmons on England and Wales or Gus Veenendaal on the railways in the Netherlands. Both are/were professional historians and also enthusiasts. Other books of a similar or slightly less academic level I have in mind are Legget on Canada, Kalla-Bishop on Hungary or Westwood on Russia.

There are "spotters" type books on European systems, many published by Platform 5, but these are not quite what I want.

All suggestions gratefully received.

Could you (or anybody else) please help me out here - a Google search for Gus Veenendaal did not yield much beyond this thread. What did he write?

 

[bspahh]

Could you (or anybody else) please help me out here - a Google search for Gus Veenendaal did not yield much beyond this thread. What did he write?

He has 7 books listed at Amazon

Amazon.co.uk

www.amazon.co.uk

There are 60 hits at Abebooks, but some are duplicates

Augustus J Veenendaal - AbeBooks

American Railroads in the Nineteenth Century by Veenendaal, Augustus J. and a great selection of related books, art and collectibles available now at AbeBooks.co.uk.

www.abebooks.co.uk

Alibris lists 3 books

Augustus J Veenendaal - Alibris UK

 

[trivran]

He has 7 books listed at Amazon

Amazon.co.uk

www.amazon.co.uk

There are 60 hits at Abebooks, but some are duplicates

Augustus J Veenendaal - AbeBooks

American Railroads in the Nineteenth Century by Veenendaal, Augustus J. and a great selection of related books, art and collectibles available now at AbeBooks.co.uk.

www.abebooks.co.uk

Alibris lists 3 books

Augustus J Veenendaal - Alibris UK

Thank you! Poor search engine skills I have clearly.

 

[bspahh]

Thank you! Poor search engine skills I have clearly.

No problem. I started with

Gus Veenendaal

and didn't find anything and Veenendaal hit lots as its a place name. I then tried

Veenendaal Netherlands railway

and it found a Wikipedia page with his full name, and with that then it was easy to find the rest.

 

[S&CLER]

Could you (or anybody else) please help me out here - a Google search for Gus Veenendaal did not yield much beyond this thread. What did he write?

Gus (Augustus) Veenendaal wrote a good book on the railways of the Netherlands, which in the Dutch original had a title that translates as "The Iron Horse in a Country Full of Water". His other main rail-related book was on nineteenth century Dutch investment in American railroads, and he had other publications on non-rail historical subjects.