Can I board a train that isn't listed on the timetable!?

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impfreely

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Hi all

Weird one this! There is a train that runs 0005 Victoria - 0141 Worthing via Brighton, I know this service exists as I've been on it myself from Victoria to Worthing. However I intend to board it at Brighton, but it's not listed on the timetable as stopping there (see attachment), yet I know it does stop there at 0120.

http://traintimes.im/rail-service/W60511/2012/03/01/



So, can I board this service? Is it to deter drunkards who've been out in Brighton?!
 
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scotsman

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It seems to be setting down only in Brighton. This means that you could be liable to a fare from Haywards Heath - the last pick-up
 

impfreely

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Thanks, that what my initial thought was. Shame as it means the last train to Worthing is at 0010 (changing at Hove), over an hour earlier!

So why set down only? Wouldn't hurt to let people on would it? Or am I being naïve ;)
 

ushawk

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So why set down only? Wouldn't hurt to let people on would it? Or am I being naïve ;)
Well in the case of Brighton, it only sometimes runs via there so there isnt any point in having it timetabled. For the other stations i dont know, possibly there isnt anyone who would use it (dont know many who would travel from Lancing to Worthing at 1.30AM)
 

David Goddard

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This reminded me of the case of First Great Western's 2123 Portsmouth to Westbury and 1930 Cardiff - Portsmouth. These are given additional time between Southampton and Fareham as they operate via Eastleigh for route knowledge purposes.

Timings are not shown in timetables produced by Great Western or South West Trains, but the NRT tables 158 & 165 clearly show these trains as serving Eastleigh at 2206/2211 and 2214/2224 respectively.

Journey planner does not recognise these stops - put in Portsmouth - Eastleigh at 21:30 and it will put you on the 21:30 to Westbury, but tell you to go to Southampton and change, getting to Eastleigh some forty one minutes after passing through the first time!

I saw these pair call at Eastleigh a couple of weeks ago, announced on arrival as "stand clear, not in service". The guard said he would not stop anyone from boarding if they wanted to, but I guess this need not always be the case.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well in the case of Brighton, it only sometimes runs via there so there isnt any point in having it timetabled.
It should go via Brighton every night as it is shown Southern's Brighton Line timetable and in NRT Table 186 as doing so.
 
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wintonian

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Last year when needing to catch the last train back after being in Feltham silly me forgot that the 01:05 from Waterloo was set down only at Surbiton, but I managed to avoid being ushered off the station and board the train.

However the risks are that:

You will not be allowed to board,
Be refused access to the station or told to leave it (in fact a member of station staff took exeption to an enthusiast taking photos whilst I was waiting for the train so I nearly fell victaim to this one),
The train may be diverted and passengers bussed back to it from somewhere else
The train may run through early, although this is unlikely to be more than 2 or 3 minutes.

You will also need a ticket from the last point at which the train called to pick up passengers.

I would only do it if there was no other choice (their wasn't in my case) or you have an alternative plan (I did not).
 

louis97

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If you look on here: http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W60511

You can see that sometimes it terminates at Brighton, i'd imagine because of Engineering Works.
The advantage of not having it pick up at Brighton, is that it reduces the number of buses/taxis needed when it does terminate at Brighton. However it does appear that the Permanent schedule does show it operating Via Brighton.
 

David Goddard

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Related to the original topic, and also serving Brighton, is the 19:22 Southern service to Lewes.
Southern's timetables and the NRT both show this train as terminating at Lewes, however the Live Departure Boards does indeed show that this train operates to Newhaven Harbour, arriving 19:52, and it does (suprisingly) come up on online journey planners.
I am assuming from this that the journey is the parliamentary service that runs on to Newhaven Marine (that no-one can use as the station is unsafe).
So here we have a train that is in journey planner but not in a printed timetable.
 

wintonian

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According to Wikipedia

As of October 2010, there are no advertised passenger services from the station, however one passenger train per day leaves on weekday evenings. Passengers aren't allowed on the train because of safety reasons concerning the damaged roof on the platform. Southern offer a complimentary taxi from Marine station to Harbour Station for any passengers with a Marine ticket.
Worth a visit to see how you get hold of this complimentry taxi.
 

wintonian

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Some answers to Parlimentry questions here for those intrested.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The only available fare appears to be Newhaven Marine - Boundary Zone 6. The CDR is £21.50.
and nothing in the other direction.

All very curious, and I must kill many cats with mine.

and apperently only passengers with tickets for the 18:52 service to lewis can use the rplacement taxi.

flickr pic of poster
 
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Anon Mouse

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wonder what happens should a passenger who wishes to buy a ticket arrives at Newhaven Marine, would Southern get a taxi for him? I am curious to the figures that have used the taxi, I can't imagine there to be many (if any) that have took them up on the offer considering how close Newhaven Harbour is!
 

wintonian

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wonder what happens should a passenger who wishes to buy a ticket arrives at Newhaven Marine, would Southern get a taxi for him? I am curious to the figures that have used the taxi, I can't imagine there to be many (if any) that have took them up on the offer considering how close Newhaven Harbour is!
Well the answers are all in this rather good video on Newhaven Marine from June 2011.

It appears you take a photo of the poster and send in your recipts to Southern for a refund as no one at the other end of the phone number given to call has heard about it. With the distence involved I wonder if anyone ever has got the taxi?

As for buying a ticket couldn't you go to Harbour buy a ticket and ask them to arrange a taxi to take you from Marine to Harbour and then walk back to marine and wait for the taxi?

Or is that just being silly?
 

Flamingo

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One other point about set-down only trains is they don't have to run to the "timetable" (diagram) we have, in other words - everybody off, signal OK, off we go, even if we are early.
 

Anon Mouse

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:D
Well the answers are all in this rather good video on Newhaven Marine from June 2011.

It appears you take a photo of the poster and send in your recipts to Southern for a refund as no one at the other end of the phone number given to call has heard about it. With the distence involved I wonder if anyone ever has got the taxi?

As for buying a ticket couldn't you go to Harbour buy a ticket and ask them to arrange a taxi to take you from Marine to Harbour and then walk back to marine and wait for the taxi?

Or is that just being silly?
I suspect that would be a little silly, but I suppose they could not say no. I guess the taxi driver will be a bit surprised to take a passenger such a short walk.

That was actually a good non railway person railway clip (if that makes sense)
 

wintonian

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:D

I suspect that would be a little silly, but I suppose they could not say no. I guess the taxi driver will be a bit surprised to take a passenger such a short walk.

That was actually a good non railway person railway clip (if that makes sense)
No sillier than this entire idea of a ghost train and a 150m taxi trip IMO.
 

wintonian

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I wonder what would happen if say a group of 10 or something from prehaps a railway related forum turned up and wanted to use the taxi service?

Hmm...
 

Anon Mouse

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I wonder what would happen if say a group of 10 or something from prehaps a railway related forum turned up and wanted to use the taxi service?

Hmm...
Hmmm yes, now that is a cracking idea....wonder if the Wife would allow me to have a random wee trip to Newhaven :idea:
 

deltic

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In the days of BR having access to a working timetable I knew the overnight train from Bristol to Swansea called at all the main stations between Cardiff and Swansea for mail purposes but they were not advertised. This gave an excellent connection at Neath from the overnight Fishguard to Paddington service back into Swansea. So I alighted at Neath and duly caught this train in the early hours. The guard was a bit surprised and wondered how I had got into the station but happily accepted my explanation and my Swansea to Rosslaire return ticket. Not sure if doubling back was allowed then but life seemed far simpler in those days.
 
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dzug2

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Another reason for set down only (and I've no idea if it applies to Brighton or not) is that the ticket ofice at that station can be closed
 

AlterEgo

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wonder what happens should a passenger who wishes to buy a ticket arrives at Newhaven Marine, would Southern get a taxi for him? I am curious to the figures that have used the taxi, I can't imagine there to be many (if any) that have took them up on the offer considering how close Newhaven Harbour is!
I wonder if you could make this demand with an All Line Rover. I may try it. ;)
 

Anon Mouse

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I wonder if you could make this demand with an All Line Rover. I may try it. ;)
Its a valid ticket, from any station to any station so in theory it should do. Thats providing Southern's Call Centre might not have the foggiest about Newhaven Marine, free taxi or ALR's! :lol:
 

Brucey

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Just to throw a spanner in the works here regarding requiring a ticket from the previous calling point.

If I were stood at Eastleigh, for example, and a service appeared displaying "Portsmouth Harbour" on its destination board and the doors opened, a reasonable person would assume this is a service to Portsmouth Harbour that they can board and not require a ticket from Southampton Central. Is a passenger expected to check the timetable before boarding any train?
 
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