Can I claim back on a miss-sold monthly ticket ?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Robo1, 30 Apr 2015.

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  1. Robo1

    Robo1 Member

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    Hello

    Not certain if this is the correct section (MOD please feel free to move) but I am pretty angry with the advice and ticket that I have been sold on a monthly basis and want to see if I have any recourse.

    I live and work in the Southeast of England and travel from home (Lower Sydenham Zone 4) via Lewisham (Zone 2 & 3) to Dartford (Zone 6 with extention to Dartford as it is just out of Zone 6).

    For the last 2 years since working in Dartford I have always been told by work collogues that Lewisham is a Zone 2 and 3 station and I only need a Zone 3 to 6 with a extension to Dartford) but EVERY-TIME I have queried this on renewal of my monthly ticket I am ALWAYS told I need a Zone 2 as the computer say it cannot.

    Well today after insisting that they check as I have been told otherwise (And holding up the queue which I apologies for !) the ticket office finally was able to issue the Zone 3 to 6 plus Dartford ticket !!

    So as you can imagine I am a bit miffed as I have been paying a extra £13 or so per month when I do not use Zone 2 (Old ticket cost £197 vs new £187.20) but have always been told that it was not possible.

    Do I have any recourse ? (Luckily I do keep all of my receipts and have done for the last 2 or so years so I do have proof) and I also do know the ticket agents that were advising me as I asked them the same question month on month !!

    Any advice welcome as I do think I have been deliberately misled into paying the higher fair.

    Sorry RANT over.

    And breath.
     
  2. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    You can certainly complain to customer services and ask for compensation on the difference in fares. However I think it's unlikely you'll get anything as, whilst you can prove the ticket you paid for, you can't prove that it wasn't used in Zone 2.

    At the very least you should ask that guidance is issued reminding staff of the situation with dual-zone stations. If it happens again following this then it would be worth escalating to Transport Focus I'd think.

    It does sound a bit odd that you were sold the Z2-6 ticket, I'm not familiar with ticket issuing systems but I can't see why this would be. Surely you could just ask for a Zone 3-6 Travelcard?
     
  3. Robo1

    Robo1 Member

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    Thank you for your reply.

    No I mentioned and have always mentioned that I only travel from Lower Sysdenham to Dartford as I have a PAYG oyster that I use if I do go into town so I do not use Zone 2.

    I can go to a ticket hall now and ask for a Zone 3 to 6 plus Dartford and I will be told that I cannot get it and have to have a Zone 2 to 6 plus Dartford as the system does not show it (Unless you really argue the point like I did).
     
  4. Robo1

    Robo1 Member

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    That you Neil Williams so why is it that every time I have asked they have said no ? (I can go over to the station now and record it on my camera phone, not sure of the legalities but it's the best way to prove that I have deliberately been miss-sold at the higher price ?)

    Correction: Mine is a monthly ticket and not via the HS1
     
    Last edited: 30 Apr 2015
  5. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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    If you are only using the ticket to go to work and back, then you will be better off buying a point to point season rather than a Travelcard.

    A monthly season Dartford - Hayes (not via London) is £154.00 and would be valid at Lower Sydenham.
     
  6. Robo1

    Robo1 Member

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    Oh they cannot do that, yes they cannot do a point to point which is why I had to get the travel card !
     
  7. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Point-to-point tickets are not available from Dartford to Lower Sydenham; greatkingrat is proposing you buy a Dartford-Hayes ticket for the journey. Lower Sydenham is on a permitted route for this journey so perfectly valid.

    Good thing tickets are now
    [​IMG]
     
  8. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    The situation is, you're travelling with a company that teaches its staff nonsense, which incidentally ends up with you being told you need a more expensive ticket that what is required.
     
  9. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I'd report the matter to Southeastern Customer Services, and if they do not resolve it to your satisfaction, refer it to London Travelwatch.
     
  10. PermitToTravel

    PermitToTravel Established Member

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    I'd suggest seeking a no-obligations consultation with a lawyer. This looks to me like a clear-cut case of mis-selling and/or fraud.
     
  11. Tom B

    Tom B Established Member

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    Although it is not possible to prove it, let's say you work next to the station at the edge of Zone 3/2 and you have done for the period in question, and you can prove that - it would provide rather compelling evidence, no?
     
  12. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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    Talk about using a sledgehammer to crush a nut!
     
  13. PermitToTravel

    PermitToTravel Established Member

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    Oh, absolutely give them a chance first...
     
  14. Robo1

    Robo1 Member

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    Thank you all for the replies, have just got into work but I spoke to the ticket office person (again) and they still insist that:

    a) I cannot get a point to point (Lower Sydenham to Dartford via Lewisham)
    b) I need to use a travel card Zone 2 to 6 plus Dartford because Lewisham is in Zone 2 and 3 as the computer says no (But see point e below)
    c) I cannot use a travel card Zone 3 only via Dartford (There is a train that runs a circular route that comes out and back in
    e) They could not explain why the computer allowed my new Zone 3 to 6 plus Dartford).

    To be honest he didn't seem that interested so I will contact and make a formal complaint.

    Will keep the thread updated but I think it may take some time.
     
  15. PermitToTravel

    PermitToTravel Established Member

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    They're correct in that there's no point to point season between Lower Sydenham and Dartford. The rest all looks wrong though

    Thanks for keeping us updated - good luck!
     
  16. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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  17. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    It will indeed, but caution should be excised in collecting the ticket - I think it has to be from a Southern TVM and not one operated by any other TOC.
     
  18. DelayRepay

    DelayRepay Member

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    You should try asking at another ticket office (the one at the other end of your commute maybe) - it would be interesting to see whether they give the same information.
     
  19. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    I'm sure if you were to ask for a Dartford to London Zones 3-6 season at Dartford they would sell it without question.
     
  20. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    It's not always as straightforward as that. Some clerks may insist on knowing where you intend to travel to, so they can be sure they are selling the right ticket. One instance where an attempt to be helpful can be the complete opposite. As a passenger, sometimes it's necessary to be tactical and have prepared answers for the overly inquisitive.
     
    Last edited: 2 May 2015
  21. Robo1

    Robo1 Member

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    Hi RJ

    But if they insist on where your actual destination and staring point will be then should it not automatically give the cheapest and best price on the system computers of fairs available?
     
  22. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    It should. But, despite ATOC claiming that most of us wish to take the shortest route, the booking engines and journey planners tend to be programmed to give us the fastest route.

    In reality, many people actually want the cheapest!
     
  23. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    Part of the job is to have local product knowledge and offer the simplest and cheapest ticket for a journey based on that knowledge. Normally that will be a point to point ticket, but anyone who works in the London area should also be clued up on Travelcards. All stations between Dartford and Lower Sydenham via Lewisham are in Zones 3-6. Whilst the concept of dual zoned stations like Lewisham is straightforward, Southeastern probably teach their staff something else based on their own beliefs, which is why you are having problems. Perhaps someone should investigate if Lewisham ticket office sells Zone 1-3 Travelcards to people who just want to commute into Central London.

    I am sorry to hear about your experiences. Perhaps I can help. When are you planning to try buying your season ticket again? Buying the suggested Dartford to Hayes season might be best if you don't want to use buses - that will certainly cover your Dartford to Lower Sydenham journey and is cheaper than the 3-6 Travelcard. It seems there are some missing point to point season ticket fares in that part of the world.

    As for getting your money back, try their Customer Relations.
     
    Last edited: 3 May 2015
  24. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    But in this case, the route being used is both the fastest and shortest: the issue is that the TIS appears to be requiring a Travelcard including Zone 2 for the journey that goes via Lewisham, in Zones 2/3.
     
  25. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    The TIS will provide information relevant to the what it is asked for. In this case I find it difficult to blame anything other than operator error.
     
  26. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    I doubt the TIS offers that ticket. Even if it did, the clerk should know better than that. I wonder if Southeastern insist that Lewisham to Central London commuters have to pay for a 1-3 Travelcard.
     
  27. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    This confused me on my first trips to London as a teenager.

    It is of course 'zone 2 or 3': in 'either' zone not 'both'.
     
  28. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

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    No, the station is in zone 2 AND 3. The ticket you need to travel there has to be valid for zone 2 OR 3.
     
  29. cool110

    cool110 Member

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    If you find that confusing don't go to Merseyside since there's one station (Huyton) that's in zone A3, C1, C2 and C3. Just to make it even more confusing the whole of zone A3 is also in zones C2 and C3.
     
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