The thing is, with the falling oil price (and car insurance), the cost of commuting by car is decreasing. The cost of commuting by rail almost never decreases.
Thats very true but where do you then park your car?
The thing is, with the falling oil price (and car insurance), the cost of commuting by car is decreasing. The cost of commuting by rail almost never decreases.
Thats very true but where do you then park your car?
But parking them in the sidings rather than using them saves the TOCs lots of money. The TOCs choose to park them up.
Because there is no demand for a 12 coach train every 10 minutes during the off peak, the TOCs still need to pay the leasing charges for the stock regardless of whether they use them or not, the only things they save is the track access, maintenance and mileage charges etc, subject to the type of lease the trains are on.
There's a reason, I'm sure, why London Midland's off-peak trains are usually 4-car even where- as in the case of the Tring stoppers- during the evening and at weekends these trains are usually full-and-standing.
it was part time, 16 hours a week, Milton Keynes to Watford (IIRC), for minimum wage, and the train was the only reasonable way that we could find. the job centre didn't care when my friend told them, all they were interested in was getting them off jobseekers.I assume that was either part time or the journey was something nonsensical like from Manchester to London, otherwise that would be illegal - well below the minimum wage.
Neil
A few journalists have said that some people can no longer afford to commute to work due to the fare increases. Anyone in the same boat?
One thing these people don't realise is that petrol prices have been increasing in recent years , they don't moan about that
I assume that was either part time or the journey was something nonsensical like from Manchester to London, otherwise that would be illegal - well below the minimum wage.
Clip said:Thats very true but where do you then park your car?
Because there is no demand for a 12 coach train every 10 minutes during the off peak, the TOCs still need to pay the leasing charges for the stock regardless of whether they use them or not, the only things they save is the track access, maintenance and mileage charges etc, subject to the type of lease the trains are on.
Commuting = cost = time = benefit
There hits a point where the equation gets skewed that one of them end up being too much, or the benefit is not worth the hassle. This has nothing much to do with the cost per se - I can travel for free by train, but would I accept a job in Paddington, knowing it would mean five-six hours on a train five days a week? Hell no!
Cost is only one of the factors, but if somebody feels they can't afford either the time or the cost of getting to that job, then it may be time to review their CV and start looking in a smaller radius from home.
London is a big centre of employment, but not everything is in the middle of London, there are plenty of job opportunities in the South East.
The cost of train travel is already subsidised, and TOC's spend a lot of their time hauling empty seats around to have the capacity to handle the peak commuter travellers. It has been decided by successive governments that the cost of this should be bourne by those using the services, and the decision to increase the fares is a political decision whatever way it is looked at.
A uni friend is a civil servant who worked in London. Unfortunately his role moved to Milton Keynes, Due to various reasons, he was not able to move from his house in Gatwick.
Possibly - I had assumed a rail commute.
I'm sure there will be some who find that a combination of low or non existent pay rises, increases in food costs, childcare costs and travel costs, now find it more difficult than ever to justify commuting to work by train.
When you add in other rises, such as utility bills, council tax and so on, it's hardly surprising to find that there a comes a point where something has to give.
Actually, the latest inflation figures will disagree with this summary. Council tax is frozen at many councils; utility bills have not increased in the last year (and one company actually just decreased their prices, waiting for the rest to follow); food is cheaper than a year ago.
I don't know anything about childcare costs...
With people supposedly being priced off trains year on year, I find it surprising that the ORR keeps reporting growth in number of rail journeys in the UK and that passenger numbers keep breaking records.
That's more likely to be due to growth in discretionary leisure travel - most people commute by train because it's the only option.
Inflation is really a work of fiction, based as it is on a "basket of goods"
Council tax is frozen at many councils;
My council tax has gone up.
Are people really being priced off trains or is it just a sensationalist way of reporting the inevitable annual fare increases?
Commuter trains are already crush loaded, if fares were lower what do you think would happen to the loadings?
Of course many of the TOCs also have to lease a lot of rolling stock just to ferry those commuters to and from work, outside these times the trains just sit in the sidings costing the TOCs a lot of money on leasing charges, have a look at the sidings at Clapham Yard or various other yards around the main commuter Cities for your proof.
Some people must be - I can't be the only person who has decided to just drive instead as a direct result of the price of tickets.Are people really being priced off trains or is it just a sensationalist way of reporting the inevitable annual fare increases?
Maybe there are some things that could make it better for both TOCs and customers:
- Discounted season tickets in exchange for time restrictions
Who is going to enforce it?[*]Season tickets restricted to no more than 2/3/4 weekdays per week - meaning that there's a financial incentive for people who have the option of homeworking one or two days a week, or working full-time over four days, to take it.
Who is going to force that onto them?[*]Public-sector employers leading by example on flexible working arrangements like those above
Have you thought about the implementation of these things?Some people will have the option of a cheaper bus or a quicker train. Rising train fares and/or available money after other costs (I expect the latter will be the greater overall effect) may lead to more people choosing the cheaper option - but that's just one of hundreds of similar decisions that people make on cheaper vs better.
To be honest, not really. But I thought the the first of my suggestion was already available for some routes / operators and my second had been suggested by a few senior politicians in the pastHave you thought about the implementation of these things?
Your post which I replied to seemed to be saying that the "peakiness" of demand made the overall cost of operating the railway higher (apologies if I've misinterpreted) . If this is the case, then spreading demand will reduce overall cost - if the savings are passed on then this would help everyone, even those who can't change their travel patterns.What about those who cannot change their travel patterns but are not on a big wage?
The thing is, with the falling oil price (and car insurance), the cost of commuting by car is decreasing. The cost of commuting by rail almost never decreases.