Can rail staff travel in first class?

[WORKERBEE]

I work for TFL & I was told while travelling to work using Avanti West Coast Or NorthWestern Rail I can sit in first class instead of standard by a member of staff at my local station. Normally standard is fine & I do always sit in standard but there have been occasions where I have sat in first class with no problem except for two occasions. The first one the Trains Manager asked for my ticket for first class, I told him I was told I could sit in first class by another member of staff, he said no & asked me to move to standard but changed his tune after I sat down when he noticed my uniform under my coat. He then said I could sit in first class as I work for a TOC & I could go back & sit down, frankly I was embarrassed & said well you’ve kicked me out & I’m her now so it’s fine. Today I sat in first class, the other carriages were full & to protect myself as a key worker I sat in first class where there was just myself & another customer, when asked for my ticket (I was sitting in my uniform jumper with the logo clearly visible) I said to the Train Manager I was told by a member of your staff we could sit in first class, she rudely replied “who told you that?” I said a member of station staff & train staff, she said well for today it’s fine but in future sit in standard.

I’m not bothered about being removed from first class or only travelling in standard cause I don’t always travel in first but I hate that I’m getting mixed information. Can anyone clarify if TOC staff can sit in first class on national rail trains IF in uniform? I want to point out I have seen other national rail workers (that work for other NR companies), arriva rail workers & LU workers sitting in first class with no problem but I always seem to have a problem. I just want correct information.

Thank you.....

 

[ComUtoR]

You may only sit in first class if you have a valid first class ticket.


However;

Staff are often offered a 'professional courtesy' but this is purely a courtesy.

What you should also be aware of is the terms and conditions of your PRIV/Staff travel ticket. Those can be found https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/rst.html

 

[221129]

Can anyone clarify if TOC staff can sit in first class on national rail trains IF in uniform?

What does your pass or ticket say? (Being in first in Uniform is generally a big no no at my TOC at least and I would imagine most others.)

 

[WORKERBEE]

Mine is a normal standard annual ticket, that’s why I was confused when I was told “Oh you can sit in first” like I said I’m not bothered but just would be nice to get some real answers so if I’m told I can in future I’ll decline & sit where I’m suppose to.

 

[ComUtoR]

You are not allowed without a first class ticket.

It is very oimportant you read your terms and conditions. Staff travel can be removed is abused.

 

[221129]

Mine is a normal standard annual ticket, that’s why I was confused when I was told “Oh you can sit in first” like I said I’m not bothered but just would be nice to get some real answers so if I’m told I can in future I’ll decline & sit where I’m suppose to.

So you have a standard class ticket. That should be all the info you need. The guard on the train MAY offer to upgarde you but that is by no means a right and if found in there by someone who wishes to make an example of you then you could find yourself in very hot water.

 

[WORKERBEE]

Okay.... thank you so much for that. If I’m told in future I’ll decline, I don’t understand why I was told in the first place I could if it’s not allowed even though I told them I have standard. It’s was just information I was told but had some confusion that it’s okay sometimes but sometimes it’s not & just want clarification even though I knew from the T & C what my ticket was in the first place. I’m new to NR travel & just wanted to check

 

[ComUtoR]

Because staff tend to look out for each other. If offered feel free to take it but be respectful at all times and if a passenger objects then leave. Always give your seat to other passengers. Never assume it is guaranteed and the jury is out on asking for freebies or upgrades.

If staff require help, it is often polite to offer assistance and state your credentials.

 

[Chris217]

If it was a quiet service
Why would the gaurd be even bothered for letting a member of staff the privilege.
If you offered your Priv for examination,then ask, the guard would know you were an operator and there would be no confrontation.
It's like a bus driver refusing free travel to another driver because he worked for another operator?
Some people can be over zealous in their duties,although I have known of a person travelling free because he wore an EWS Coat and hi-viz to travel free!...he got caught in the end though lol.
The best advice would be to ask first and show your TOCcard or Priv when asking.
You'll probably find most would be ok with that,although some may obviously quote the T's & C's for free travel which obviously you already know.

 

[Chris217]

Ok,just posted my reply whilst others were posting theirs.
So if its,a TfL pass,then it's as ComUtoR says unless you are offered the privilege.

 

[WORKERBEE]

Thanks to all of you for your advice but I think I’ll just politely decline in future, if it’s going to be a problem because the previous TM offered the upgrade but the next didn’t. I was only sitting in first so I could sit in a non packed car

 

[driver9000]

Avanti allow their own staff to travel in first class but I'm not aware of any other TOC staff being allowed to travel in 1st unless their passes are endorsed as valid in that part of the train.

 

[43066]

I work for TFL & I was told while travelling to work using Avanti West Coast Or NorthWestern Rail I can sit in first class instead of standard by a member of staff at my local station. Normally standard is fine & I do always sit in standard but there have been occasions where I have sat in first class with no problem except for two occasions. The first one the Trains Manager asked for my ticket for first class, I told him I was told I could sit in first class by another member of staff, he said no & asked me to move to standard but changed his tune after I sat down when he noticed my uniform under my coat. He then said I could sit in first class as I work for a TOC & I could go back & sit down, frankly I was embarrassed & said well you’ve kicked me out & I’m her now so it’s fine. Today I sat in first class, the other carriages were full & to protect myself as a key worker I sat in first class where there was just myself & another customer, when asked for my ticket (I was sitting in my uniform jumper with the logo clearly visible) I said to the Train Manager I was told by a member of your staff we could sit in first class, she rudely replied “who told you that?” I said a member of station staff & train staff, she said well for today it’s fine but in future sit in standard.

I’m not bothered about being removed from first class or only travelling in standard cause I don’t always travel in first but I hate that I’m getting mixed information. Can anyone clarify if TOC staff can sit in first class on national rail trains IF in uniform? I want to point out I have seen other national rail workers (that work for other NR companies), arriva rail workers & LU workers sitting in first class with no problem but I always seem to have a problem. I just want correct information.

Thank you.....

It’s not officially allowed but, in my experience, you’ll always be allowed to travel in first if you approach the guard and ask.

I’d certainly never do so without asking first, which is perhaps where you went wrong.

 

[WORKERBEE]

Oh I never asked... I got on the train one day in standard & a avanti staff memeber said "you know you can sit in first class right?"

I've seen southern/northwestern/TFL workers travel in them carriages as well & didnt think anything of it but was just confused if it was really a thing & it's okay when the train is full etc but like I said I wont in future & save the confusion

 

[387star]

I'd never normally sit in First Class. Don't forget crews change on route and you never know who is in there. Angie Doll of Southern often commutes in plain clothes and there may be drivers unaware that a fellow passenger is high up in the business. Seems a crazy risk to take.

 

[43066]

Oh I never asked... I got on the train one day in standard & a avanti staff memeber said "you know you can sit in first class right?"

I've seen southern/northwestern/TFL workers travel in them carriages as well & didnt think anything of it but was just confused if it was really a thing & it's okay when the train is full etc but like I said I wont in future & save the confusion

All you need to do is approach the guard, politely introduce yourself as a railway colleague, and ask if you can travel in first. You do need to ask, though, because it’s their train.

I’ve had a 100% success rate with that approach!

 

[WORKERBEE]

All you need to do is approach the guard, politely introduce yourself as a railway colleague, and ask if you can travel in first. You do need to ask, though, because it’s their train.

I’ve had a 100% success rate with that approach!

Okay.... thanks for the info

 

[Tom Quinne]

You’ll ALWAYS get one member of staff who will take great pleasure in reporting you to your management team for sitting in first.

Please don’t risk it, always comply with your pass accommodation classification.

 

[43066]

You’ll ALWAYS get one member of staff who will take great pleasure in reporting you to your management team for sitting in first.

Please don’t risk it, always comply with your pass accommodation classification.

I appreciate these things vary by TOC, but that isn’t my experience.

The norm where I am is to travel in first, but always to ask the guard for permission, because it’s a privilege not a right. If the guard has given you permission then you’re covered.

Issues only ever arise where someone demonstrates a sense of entitlement by not asking first, and has a “personality clash” with the guard.

 

[ArchangelA]

I work for TFL & I was told while travelling to work using Avanti West Coast Or NorthWestern Rail I can sit in first class instead of standard by a member of staff at my local station. Normally standard is fine & I do always sit in standard but there have been occasions where I have sat in first class with no problem except for two occasions. The first one the Trains Manager asked for my ticket for first class, I told him I was told I could sit in first class by another member of staff, he said no & asked me to move to standard but changed his tune after I sat down when he noticed my uniform under my coat. He then said I could sit in first class as I work for a TOC & I could go back & sit down, frankly I was embarrassed & said well you’ve kicked me out & I’m her now so it’s fine. Today I sat in first class, the other carriages were full & to protect myself as a key worker I sat in first class where there was just myself & another customer, when asked for my ticket (I was sitting in my uniform jumper with the logo clearly visible) I said to the Train Manager I was told by a member of your staff we could sit in first class, she rudely replied “who told you that?” I said a member of station staff & train staff, she said well for today it’s fine but in future sit in standard.

I’m not bothered about being removed from first class or only travelling in standard cause I don’t always travel in first but I hate that I’m getting mixed information. Can anyone clarify if TOC staff can sit in first class on national rail trains IF in uniform? I want to point out I have seen other national rail workers (that work for other NR companies), arriva rail workers & LU workers sitting in first class with no problem but I always seem to have a problem. I just want correct information.

Thank you.....

As the others have basically said, don't do it unless the TRAIN MANAGER/ SENIOR CONDUCTOR (only) has said it is okay, as they are in charge of the train and no one else. Sitting in first class may also be a breach of your travel pass terms and all it takes is for a revenue protection team to board (known or unbeknown to the conductor or senior conductor) and they can prosecute you. Worse still it could end up in you being reported to TFL or BTP who will consider revoking your pass or Bylaw offences.

 

[the sniper]

As the others have basically said, don't do it unless the TRAIN MANAGER/ SENIOR CONDUCTOR (only) has said it is okay, as they are in charge of the train and no one else.

Exactly. Though tbh, with social distancing now, I probably wouldn't bother as I wouldn't really want to approach the Guard unnecessarily. I'd likely just stick with standard.

 

[berwicksfinest]

Only one person has the authority to allow you into 1st >>>> The Train Guard

Personally I have found most say get yourself into first but to the other end I got questioned about standing in the 1st (on a 170) because I was using the charge socket for my works phone which I had flattened for a failure I'd had. I asked if I could leave my phone. I got a begrudging suppose so. No drama no hassle.

Flip side we had a near miss whilst travelling and I asked the guard if he needed us, he thanked us but had it covered. it does work both ways

 

[Lewlew]

I used to travel in the same direction (Leighton Buzzard) and only ever sat in first class if the train was full and I was in uniform. If they ever asked for a ticket then I showed my season ticket and staff pass at the same time.

I did sit in there once on a full and standing late evening 4 car without uniform, showed the guard my staff pass and he was happy and stayed for a chat as he couldn't get through the rest of the train.

However officially it is very much standard class only and 95% of the time I would stay in standard.

Never had a problem with London Midland/LNWR. I've heard some horror stories from colleagues travelling with Virgin to Milton Keynes however.

 

[MP33]

I used to travel 1st class on Greater Anglia but gave it up as it is coming to an end in the near future. According to the draft May timetable which was not released, the trains that I use had been de-classified in advance of new rolling stock.

When I did travel I heard one of the Senior Managers from the Rail Industry, who used to make up most of the passengers. Describe an incident when someone they were with had their details taken for no 1st class ticket and also using staff travel for 1st class which they were not entitled to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On LNR off-peak it's basically a messroom in my observation as a passenger.

They can keep it, Standard is more comfortable on the 350/1 and /3

 

[Teddyward]

I have a first class pass for my TOC. For off peak, leisure only.
Never used it.

 

[185]

Officially you cannot sit in first. Unofficially... many SCs & TMs on that route don't mind, others you may find may do - get used to that. Plus, your TfL uniforms aren't the most obvious - made worse when you cover it up by civvy/personal jackets. Also bear in mind that most UK Traincrew *don't get TfL tube travel at Priv rate, ie- everyone who joined since 1997.

Where possible, always ask first - it's can of worms if you don't. That said, every pair of hands on board is useful when things go wrong, thus more staff the merrier, especially out of Euston.

 

[dk1]

I used to travel 1st class on Greater Anglia but gave it up as it is coming to an end in the near future. According to the draft May timetable which was not released, the trains that I use had been de-classified in advance of new rolling stock.

Still keeping first class on most of the Norwich IC services.

 

[voyagerdude220]

As others have said, I personally always ask the TM (and show them my priv with my ticket) before boarding how much it would cost to upgrade. The only time I'd just sit down, is if Weekend First was available.

99.9% have very kindly welcomed me to sit in First free of charge. Some even ask why I bought a priv ticket.

I've only ever had an issue with a rude GWR TM at Paddington. He ignored me asking how much it would be to upgrade and shouted that Standard was "down there."
I remember alighting at Reading (rammed HST on a Friday about midday- Even coach A was full, First Class was almost empty)

I got the following service half an hour later and the TM couldn't have been nicer.

 

[LowLevel]

I don't sit in first in uniform even if invited if there are fare paying passengers around. It isn't fair on those that have paid a premium. The exception is late at night when there often is no one around I'll join the traincrew and be sociable. I do have some entitlement to first class travel off duty which is nice, I don't wish to risk it by coming onto the radar by upsetting 'proper' passengers or senior management. However some confusion does occur on our TOC as in exchange for not getting a Personal Needs Break off the train the staff on board those services are entitled to use the first class kitchen equipment and seating to have their break. They usually occupy the bay of seats next to the kitchen.