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Not on greater Anglia replacement buses!
Speaking for myself I wouldn't object to paying a few quid to guarentee being able to bring a conventional bicycle on the train with me. I vaguely remember once I had to use a RRB but I was ok because I had my folder which was allowed to be taken on the bus. I almost never take my non-folding bike on the train so this situation is never going to happen to me, although I sympathise for those caught out by it if they weren't aware in advance. It is always a good idea to check a planned journey soon before travel to get advance warning of niggles like this.Maybe bikes should be charged for in order to cover the cost of providing for them when RRB's are operating, to expect provision to be taken out of fares is unreasonable to non cyclists.
Is carrying a bike a right or a privilege.
Isn't engineering work scheduled well in advance, so someone taking a trip for a week will be able to look on National Rail Enquiries to see if they are likely to have to use a RRB?All these people referring to problems with bikes seem to be referring to out-and-back day trips. What happens when they are taking their bikes as part of a 4-5 day break and one part is substituted by buses, or they are out and back but in, say, a week's time?. Surely, anything can happen with the various train services over a period of time and I'm struggling to see why the rail company can be expected to do anything about an item that is, presumably, travelling for free.
You are correct, the vehicles had luggage lockers under the passenger saloon. We rarely see what you might term a conventional bus running a rail replacement service. And I can't imagine where a bike would go on a single or double decker bus!When you say that you've seen bikes loaded on buses dozens of times, I assume you really mean rail replacement coaches with luggage facilites, rather than ordinary service buses?
And that is the reason that nationally bikes are not allowed on Rail Replacement buses.And I can't imagine where a bike would go on a single or double decker bus!
That's precisely what should be happening. The law now requires fully accessible vehicles to be used and at present these will generally be 2nd hand (usually ex-National Express/Megabus) coaches that have luggage compartments underneath. We just need many more of them!You are correct, the vehicles had luggage lockers under the passenger saloon. We rarely see what you might term a conventional bus running a rail replacement service. And I can't imagine where a bike would go on a single or double decker bus!
For another discussion I imagine, but the downfall of psvar is unsuitable vehicles appearing in long distance rail replacement. I was on rail replacement last weekend, running in a pair with a stagecoach enviro 200. I had a psvar plaxton profile coach with full wheelchair lift. The stagecoach bus couldn’t cope with the quantity of suitcases or keep to timetable. It would have been far more suitable and comfortable for the passengers to have had a non psvar coach in a pair with my psvar coach.Correct, accessible vehicle (one that meets the PSVAR conditions). I emphasised coaches as they will usually have the luggage compartments underneath whereas buses (double deck or single deck) would not normally be equipped to carry bikes or carry lots of luggage.
Yes, similar comments have been made before. None of it is really ideal - but it's certainly better for the disabled than what existed previously.For another discussion I imagine, but the downfall of psvar is unsuitable vehicles appearing in long distance rail replacement. I was on rail replacement last weekend, running in a pair with a stagecoach enviro 200. I had a psvar plaxton profile coach with full wheelchair lift. The stagecoach bus couldn’t cope with the quantity of suitcases or keep to timetable. It would have been far more suitable and comfortable for the passengers to have had a non psvar coach in a pair with my psvar coach.
saying that, my lift requires a wide pavement on level ground. It’s useless as psvar on a slope or narrow pavement
I'm assuming that US style bike racks on buses are banned in the UK for the same reason that most car bonnet mounted items were banned, namely the potential damage to pedestrians in the event of a collision.Who said anything about the top? US/Canadian bike racks are fitted to the front... [Edit: in fairness, Cycling UK do say that as a result of differing legislation, some fittings acceptable in the US would be illegal in the UK.]
Nothing else is going to work, or we don't want to make anything else work? There are numerous possibilities raised on this thread that could work in the right circumstances.
I agree there is no good reason for "ordinary" bus companies to modify vehicles "just in case". But where companies work extensively, week in, week out on rail replacement, it may be worth investigating making provision on a couple of vehicles in the fleet that could then be used on specified, labelled workings, only for holders of bicycles holding a reservation (for example). If such a thing exists, make it removable, or removable in conjunction with the sort of removable seating that we now see on coaches to make space for wheelchair users in an otherwise fully-seated vehicle.
As I said... reasonable adjustment is all that would be necessary. Reasonable on the part of the rail companies to consider provision in some way rather than just folding arms and saying no, reasonable on the part of the cyclist to be prepared to make changes or wait for a suitable vehicle rather than remonstrating with staff, reasonable on the part of the RRB driver to assist both parties in making that happen.
Current ruling on rail replacement is drivers are not allowed to touch any luggage. All luggage needs to be loaded by the passenger themselveshave you tried lifting a bike and loading it horizontally under a coach, really not easy to do in a way which is not risky for your back, I was once at Hitchin doing east coast replacements and a young lady had a go at a driver because he agreed to carry her bike only if she loaded it.
Is this a covid rule or a general one?Current ruling on rail replacement is drivers are not allowed to touch any luggage. All luggage needs to be loaded by the passenger themselves
I suspect it is COVID related guidance. I certainly won't generally help passengers with their luggage at the moment.Is this a covid rule or a general one?
See Go North East: in the/an offside tip-up areas, with a small rack for 2?) bikes, not that unlike the train. Certainly this is what I was thinking of with my version above.[...] And I can't imagine where a bike would go on a single or double decker bus!
Hard to disagree with you there! Again, this is similar to what I was suggesting above - in the same way that it would be theoretically possible for the RRB timetable to be marked which coaches were PSVAR and which weren't (in similar fashion to what was done for regular service runs for years), you could easily mark out which vehicles could or could not accept "other items".[...] It would have been far more suitable and comfortable for the passengers to have had a non psvar coach in a pair with my psvar coach.
Obviously cannot dispute your experiences as a driver, nor would I try to. Of course, if your employer told you not to (presumably under direction from the rail company as contractor), then you shouldn't.I used to drive rrb services with coaches and I would never accept a bike for three reasons.
1) My employer told me not to.
2) have you tried lifting a bike and loading it horizontally under a coach, really not easy to do in a way which is not risky for your back, I was once at Hitchin doing east coast replacements and a young lady had a go at a driver because he agreed to carry her bike only if she loaded it.
3)there is a risk of damage to the bike if other luggage is also in the hold, and iven if no luggage there is nothing to prevent the bike from sliding round in the boot.
Coaches are not designed for bikes, nor are transits unless kit out for it, and so they should never be carried.
There is an argument for them where the RRB service is an emergency one, but even then practicality is relevant.
Which makes sense, both for the driver's benefit and to avoid claims of "it went missing, it got broken, etc., especially where Rail Replacement is not a usual part of work. I would expect it to be quite different if a tour driver.Current ruling on rail replacement is drivers are not allowed to touch any luggage. All luggage needs to be loaded by the passenger themselves
Not sure. Received the instruction from several different controllers on each rail I’ve done recently. I’d never done rail pre-covid to make comparison only moved to coaching side of company in summer 2020Is this a covid rule or a general one?
It needs to be said that this is really an issue for the Rail authorities to sort out. Most bus/coach operators aren't going to be too bothered about doing rail replacement work and may be fairly ambivalent about the whole issue. They're unlikely to see much benefit in modifying buses or coaches for just the occasional bike and, in any event, accessible coaches should now be used on much of the pre-planned rail replacement work.See Go North East: in the/an offside tip-up areas, with a small rack for 2?) bikes, not that unlike the train. Certainly this is what I was thinking of with my version above.
Hard to disagree with you there! Again, this is similar to what I was suggesting above - in the same way that it would be theoretically possible for the RRB timetable to be marked which coaches were PSVAR and which weren't (in similar fashion to what was done for regular service runs for years), you could easily mark out which vehicles could or could not accept "other items".
Obviously cannot dispute your experiences as a driver, nor would I try to. Of course, if your employer told you not to (presumably under direction from the rail company as contractor), then you shouldn't.
However, I used to travel into London by commuter coach, and we had regular cycle commuters who would load non-folding bikes onto the coach. They had to do it themselves (and many preferred it, so they could manhandle their bike as they saw fit), but had to be supervised, primarily so they didn't hit their heads on the way back out. It's awkward at first, but once you get used to it, no real difference to anything else. Certainly more stable than loading it onto those double-deck cycle racks with pull-out bars, from what I've seen!
Although we carried almost no other luggage, which is a fair consideration, we found bikes moved around less than you'd think - certainly less than a lone suitcase or two. Perhaps the rubber of strapping on the handlebars seems to help?
Which makes sense, both for the driver's benefit and to avoid claims of "it went missing, it got broken, etc., especially where Rail Replacement is not a usual part of work. I would expect it to be quite different if a tour driver.
I have to keep coming back to the point I have made throughout: It isn't possible in all circumstances and indeed wouldn't be in future. There have to be different considerations for scheduled versus emergency work, and indeed depending on location and viability of provision. However, I fear we are too into blanket "can't" (won't?) rather than considering what might be reasonably possible if we thought about it. As suggested above (Bletchleyite?), it need not even be a particular vehicle - it could be a van (or car, post-covid?) with a bike rack fitted placed on standby at (a) convenient location(s).
After all, before PSVAR came into being (not into force), many Rail Replacement vehicles were inaccessible for many categories of mobility impaired, and anyone suggesting universal availability of suitably adapted vehicles would have been similarly brushed off, despite that fact there is nothing "voluntary" about mobility impairment as there is with a bicycle or pram.
For another discussion I imagine, but the downfall of psvar is unsuitable vehicles appearing in long distance rail replacement. I was on rail replacement last weekend, running in a pair with a stagecoach enviro 200. I had a psvar plaxton profile coach with full wheelchair lift. The stagecoach bus couldn’t cope with the quantity of suitcases or keep to timetable. It would have been far more suitable and comfortable for the passengers to have had a non psvar coach in a pair with my psvar coach.
saying that, my lift requires a wide pavement on level ground. It’s useless as psvar on a slope or narrow pavement
Very true. I've suggested before that only bikes that can be folded down should be accepted on any rail replacement vehicle.Given that it is still often hard enough as it is to get PSVAR spec vehicles for emergency or big RR jobs I doubt anyone is really going to fork out the cash for bikes that they don't even have to accept as it is. Much easier (even though it would be a PR disaster) to ban bikes completely.
I drove that several times doing reliefs and covering days off. Slabtrack was a brilliant project.Back at the beginning of 2017 when the Birkenhead North/Central to Liverpool bit of the Merseyrail Wirral line was closed and a large fleet of new double deckers was provided by Arriva to replace the trains, an old Volvo B10B single decker was specially converted as a bike bus, ran on an hourly frequency from memory.....
I drove that several times doing reliefs and covering days off. Slabtrack was a brilliant project.
The bus was a Wright Endurance bodied Volvo B10B which in its service days was 6514. It was transferred to the driving school in 2010 and renumbered 8214.
Merseyrail and Network Rail requested a facility from Arriva to carry bikes under the Mersey and the solution was to convert this bus. If my memory serves me right it could carry up to 8 bikes and seat their riders at the rear of the bus.
When it wasn't available a Vauxhall Vivaro 6 seat minibus was used with a made Ivor Williams trailer hooked up behind.
Later a Plaxton President DAF DB250 was used with padding and anchor points fired but retaining all of its seats.
Your train ticket covers you for a set amount of luggage that you can take with you just like on an airline after the set amount it becomes charge for as excess luggage. Its not enforced much these days going by the amount some passengers seem to have at times.In the "good old days" when travelling long distances with the bike (holiday/Uni) I used to dismantle the bike and wrap it up.
This would protect the bike and other train users and get the bike on the train even if there were bikes on already.
When the HST going south stopped at Chathill the three cyclists(reserved) were not allowed on because the luggage bit of the train was not at the platform and he was no longer allowed to pull the train forward. He let me on to the busy train. Presumably they cycled up to Berwick.
If taking the bike with you is essential because of a holiday/moving house, then think of the bike as luggage and plan ahead eg avoid when engineering work is common eg Sundays and Bank Holiday weekends.
If there is a crisis think yourself lucky- you won't have to walk.
Above all, don't rely on the goodwill of the railway to allow cycling to be part of your commute.
Taking your bike on the train is not "normal" in the UK and the carriage of which is covered by regulation.
Simply put, you may only take a bike on a train if you can satisfy certain conditions and subject to the decision of local staff/guard and facilities are available.
Clearly the Replacement transport does not have the ability to convey bicycles and very importantly staff and the other passengers and their possessions are not adequately protected and insured.
Luggage including suitcases have regulation on size number and weight which could result in them not being carried on Replacement transport.
At this present time you will find that often there is more double decker service buses running on rail replacement on some routes so to be able to accommodate the amount of passengers to be socially distanced due to COVID 19.You are correct, the vehicles had luggage lockers under the passenger saloon. We rarely see what you might term a conventional bus running a rail replacement service. And I can't imagine where a bike would go on a single or double decker bus!
The buses I saw in Portland Oregon took about four or five bikes at the front of the bud, although I wouldn't fancy my chances of the bus ploughed into me as a pedestrian, the bike rack looked pretty sturdy.Yes, of course it is so strange, I can't believe that most people would think otherwise. You're harking back to many decades ago if you want to have a luggage van area on each train. Most of us have moved on somewhat since those days.
You can find a rack on the front (or back) of some buses in the US, and at least NZ, but I've only seen them used for pushchairs/buggies. I guess they could take 1 bicycle - what do they do if two people are cycling together?