Can you travel from Lands End to John O Groats entirely on bus vehicles (not coach vehicles)?

[Statto]

There was an X4/X5 that were two separate services, one from Bishop Auckland and the other from Easington Village to Leeds back in the late 90s / early 00s that ran once a week (I think) and was operated by Arriva. It was an Optare Delta with coach seats the day I used it once from Durham to Leeds. Basically followed the A167 to Thirsk then the A19 and via Easingwold and York into Leeds.

Doesn’t run anymore though and I can’t find the old timetables online either.

There is a way you can go from Leeds via Ripon & Richmond there's a 159 Ripon-Richmond only has 3 through journeys Monday to Saturday, departing Ripon 09.40, 11.40 & 15.30. the way to do it would be
36 Leeds-Ripon
159 Ripon-Richmond
X26/X27 Richmond-Darlington

There is a way of doing it through York, Thirsk & Northallerton
30/30X York-Thirsk
70 Thirsk-Northallerton
72 Northallerton-Darlington

Main issues are the frequencies 70/72 have 4 to 5 journeys Monday to Saturday, 30/30X about hourly combined from York, there are no through routes anymore York-Darlington

 

[56131 EllColl]

As much as I love B8RLE Evoras, the T4 isn't really suitable for low floor buses. To me it looks like another very long (And limited stop too!) route.

Indeed. Summer Saturday 29/6/19 at noon a northbound T4 that I used had to terminate at Storey Arms summit. Full load with free weekends extra pax and driver drove with little concern to difficult circumstances.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Nothing wrong with low floor buses on rural, out of town routes at all in my opinion. And I do love the B8RLEs being thrashed on fast roads, and B8RLEs are excellent for the tough geographical conditions of Wales. It's just the fact the T4, for such a long route, is limited stop with only about 30-40 stops in total for a route that is probably 80 miles long, where a coach would probably be better for a service that can get potentially busy where loads of luggage space would be appreciated. But in my opinion, low floor buses would work perfectly fine on the T4 between Brecon and Newtown. Or maybe even as far as Merthyr Tildfill. Or if it was only a short route running from Cardiff to Merthyr Tildfill. But T4 whole route from Cardiff to Newtown? Probably not really suitable for low floor buses, for such a long route that is pretty much limited stop.

T14 is different. Despite being the same length as the T4, low floor is better because the route has much more stops than the T4.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There is a way you can go from Leeds via Ripon & Richmond there's a 159 Ripon-Richmond only has 3 through journeys Monday to Saturday, departing Ripon 09.40, 11.40 & 15.30. the way to do it would be
36 Leeds-Ripon
159 Ripon-Richmond
X26/X27 Richmond-Darlington

There is a way of doing it through York, Thirsk & Northallerton
30/30X York-Thirsk
70 Thirsk-Northallerton
72 Northallerton-Darlington

Main issues are the frequencies 70/72 have 4 to 5 journeys Monday to Saturday, 30/30X about hourly combined from York, there are no through routes anymore York-Darlington

There have seldom been routes between York and Darlington...given that the train does it in about 30 mins.

However, there have been some previous tries. United ran the 490 on Saturdays in 1987 from Darlington to York and Leeds. United ran the X3 from Bishop Auckland that did it (as mentioned before) again once on a Saturday. However, the most regular extensive try was when Stagecoach Darlington extended their X90 from Newcastle south of Darlington.

There are a few ways to go now (but none in any way direct)

1. 30 York to Thirsk, 70 to Northallerton, 80/89 to Stokesley, 28A to Middlesbrough, X9/10 to Newcastle.
2. 30 York to Thirsk, 70 to Northallerton, 72 to Darlington, X66/67 to Stockton, X9/10 to Newcastle.
   
3. 22 York to Ripon, 159 to Richmond, 79 to Barnard Castle, 85 to Bishop Auckland, X21 to Newcastle

 

[Statto]

Most of the way York-Darlington is mostly villages, with a couple of small towns in Thirsk & Northallerton, i think such a journey is best sticking to the west side of the pennines with more frequent buses, rather than going through Chester & Liverpool from Crewe you can also do
31 Crewe-Northwich
9/9A Northwich-Warrington
360 Warrington-Wigan
362 Wigan-Chorley
125 Chorley-Preston
You can also do 113 Wigan-Preston however this is hourly & takes around 2 hours, going though Chorley is not only quicker, you have more buses, & the 125 is Stagecoach Gold deckers

 

[SouthEastBuses]

So here is what I plan to do, if I do Lands End to John O Groats on buses (some Stagecoach North Scotland routes are exempt because of hardly any alternatives)

A1 to Penzance
T1 to Truro
27 to Bodmin
55 to Delabole
410 to Launceston
12 to Plymouth
Gold to Torquay
12 to Newton Abbot
7 to Exeter
55 to Tiverton
398 to Bampton
25 to Taunton
21 to Burnham-on-Sea
20 to Weston-super-Mare
X1 to Bristol
T1 to Thornbury
60 to Gloucester
94 to Cheltenham
41 to Tewkesbury
540 to Eynsham
144 to Birmingham
110 to Tamworth
X65 to Lichfield
X12 to Burton upon Trent
X38 to Derby
Black Cat to Mansfield
Pronto to Chesterfield
X17 to Barnsley
59 to Wakefield
110 to Leeds
840 to Whitby
X93 to Middlesborough
X9 to Newcastle
X15 to Morpeth
253 to Edinburgh
300 to Edinburgh Airport
747 to Dumferline
81 to Glenrothes
36 to Perth
57 to Dundee
73 to Arbroath
30 to Montrose
747 to Stonehaven
7 to Aberdenn
35 to Elgin
10 to Inverness (Elgin shorts run with SK68 E200 MMCs)
X98 to Thurso (I know it's a coach, but there is hardly any low floor bus route between Tain and Wick, so it's probably the only choice lol)
80 to John O Groats

 

[Jordan Adam]

7 to Aberdenn

The 7 typically only runs as far as Portlethen (only 4 per day northbound and 2 per day southbound go to Stonehaven), however the X6 & 7B run to Stonehaven.

 

[NorthOxonian]

840 to Whitby
X93 to Middlesborough

While the 840 is very scenic, most buses don't run all the way to Whitby (3 per day). There's a full hourly daytime service on the 843, which gets you to Scarborough, which is just as good for connecting onto the X93.

If you do decide to wait for the 840 and go via Whitby, I'd recommend avoiding the X93 and instead going for the X4, the former runs more across the moors, whilst the latter hugs the coast and is probably more scenic (and only about 40 minutes slower).

 

[Robertj21a]

While the 840 is very scenic, most buses don't run all the way to Whitby (3 per day). There's a full hourly daytime service on the 843, which gets you to Scarborough, which is just as good for connecting onto the X93.

If you do decide to wait for the 840 and go via Whitby, I'd recommend avoiding the X93 and instead going for the X4, the former runs more across the moors, whilst the latter hugs the coast and is probably more scenic (and only about 40 minutes slower).

But isn't the X93 a double decker whereas the X4 is a single decker ?

 

[LAIRA]

So here is what I plan to do, if I do Lands End to John O Groats on buses (some Stagecoach North Scotland routes are exempt because of hardly any alternatives)

A1 to Penzance
T1 to Truro
27 to Bodmin
55 to Delabole
410 to Launceston
12 to Plymouth
Gold to Torquay
12 to Newton Abbot
7 to Exeter
55 to Tiverton
398 to Bampton
25 to Taunton
21 to Burnham-on-Sea
20 to Weston-super-Mare
X1 to Bristol
T1 to Thornbury
60 to Gloucester
94 to Cheltenham
41 to Tewkesbury
540 to Eynsham
144 to Birmingham
110 to Tamworth
X65 to Lichfield
X12 to Burton upon Trent
X38 to Derby
Black Cat to Mansfield
Pronto to Chesterfield
X17 to Barnsley
59 to Wakefield
110 to Leeds
840 to Whitby
X93 to Middlesborough
X9 to Newcastle
X15 to Morpeth
253 to Edinburgh
300 to Edinburgh Airport
747 to Dumferline
81 to Glenrothes
36 to Perth
57 to Dundee
73 to Arbroath
30 to Montrose
747 to Stonehaven
7 to Aberdenn
35 to Elgin
10 to Inverness (Elgin shorts run with SK68 E200 MMCs)
X98 to Thurso (I know it's a coach, but there is hardly any low floor bus route between Tain and Wick, so it's probably the only choice lol)
80 to John O Groats

You can go direct from Bodmin to Plymouth once a hour on Plymouth Citybus 11/11A

 

[83G/84D]

Somebody did a similar journey and wrote about it for Buses magazine back in the 'good old days' when the National Bus company was still around. They came completely unstuck trying to get from Plymouth onto the Island of Kernow and had to give up and use National Express!

There was an X1 service for some years between Plymouth and Penzance but it was nearly always a coach. I recall Leyland Leopard’s on it. Decent coaches at the time if I remember correctly.

 

[Man of Kent]

So here is what I plan to do, if I do Lands End to John O Groats on buses (some Stagecoach North Scotland routes are exempt because of hardly any alternatives)
...41 to Tewkesbury
540 to Eynsham
144 to Birmingham...

Think that should be
41 to Tewkesbury
540 to Evesham
51 to Worcester
144 to Birmingham

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Think that should be
41 to Tewkesbury
540 to Evesham
51 to Worcester
144 to Birmingham

Might be better to go

540 to Evesham
247 to Redditch
146 to Birmingham

But isn't the X93 a double decker whereas the X4 is a single decker ?

Depends what floats your boat in terms of scenery. You will get a decker on the X93 but having already had a trip across the moors from Pickering, you will get more of the same from Whitby to Charltons. However, the X4 does take you out along the coast to Sandsend, the brutal Lythe Bank and then some really nice coastal scenery from Runswick Bay and climbing up towards Boulby potash mine, and then more from Brotton out to Saltburn.

Sadly both then end up in Teesside! The X93 does get a great view of the industrial panorama as it drops down Ormesby Bank, but the X4 will take you past the former steelworks etc. You takes your choice....

(and yes, I know the area well from my youth but I'm not a Smoggie)

 

[carlberry]

Might be better to go

540 to Evesham
247 to Redditch
146 to Birmingham

I didn't realise you were such an enthusiast for Diamond/Rotala!

 

[Wirewiper]

So here is what I plan to do, if I do Lands End to John O Groats on buses (some Stagecoach North Scotland routes are exempt because of hardly any alternatives)

A1 to Penzance
T1 to Truro
27 to Bodmin
55 to Delabole
410 to Launceston
12 to Plymouth
Gold to Torquay
12 to Newton Abbot
7 to Exeter
55 to Tiverton
398 to Bampton
25 to Taunton
21 to Burnham-on-Sea
20 to Weston-super-Mare
X1 to Bristol
T1 to Thornbury
60 to Gloucester
94 to Cheltenham
41 to Tewkesbury
540 to Eynsham
144 to Birmingham
110 to Tamworth
X65 to Lichfield
X12 to Burton upon Trent
X38 to Derby
Black Cat to Mansfield
Pronto to Chesterfield
X17 to Barnsley
59 to Wakefield
110 to Leeds
840 to Whitby
X93 to Middlesborough
X9 to Newcastle
X15 to Morpeth
253 to Edinburgh
300 to Edinburgh Airport
747 to Dumferline
81 to Glenrothes
36 to Perth
57 to Dundee
73 to Arbroath
30 to Montrose
747 to Stonehaven
7 to Aberdenn
35 to Elgin
10 to Inverness (Elgin shorts run with SK68 E200 MMCs)
X98 to Thurso (I know it's a coach, but there is hardly any low floor bus route between Tain and Wick, so it's probably the only choice lol)
80 to John O Groats

A few short-cuts in the South West - unless you have already decided this is what you want to do and worked out timings.

Bodmin to Plymouth - Plymouth CityBus/Go Cornwall Bus route 11 (someone else has already pointed this one out)

Plymouth to Exeter - Stagecoach X38

Tiverton to Taunton - Buses of Somerset (First) 22

 

[asb]

Some more shortcuts, if you want:
From Birmingham, NXWM operate direct to Lichfield regularly (X3 or X5, can't remember which).
From Derby, TrentBarton operate direct to Chesterfield as Comet

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Think that should be
41 to Tewkesbury
540 to Evesham
51 to Worcester
144 to Birmingham

My bad, I meant Evesham and forgot about the 51 lol

 

[iantherev]

Nothing wrong with low floor buses on rural, out of town routes at all in my opinion. And I do love the B8RLEs being thrashed on fast roads, and B8RLEs are excellent for the tough geographical conditions of Wales. It's just the fact the T4, for such a long route, is limited stop with only about 30-40 stops in total for a route that is probably 80 miles long, where a coach would probably be better for a service that can get potentially busy where loads of luggage space would be appreciated. But in my opinion, low floor buses would work perfectly fine on the T4 between Brecon and Newtown. Or maybe even as far as Merthyr Tildfill. Or if it was only a short route running from Cardiff to Merthyr Tildfill. But T4 whole route from Cardiff to Newtown? Probably not really suitable for low floor buses, for such a long route that is pretty much limited stop.

T14 is different. Despite being the same length as the T4, low floor is better because the route has much more stops than the T4.

We’ll obviously have to agree to differ on this one but from my experience the majority of T4 users make relatively short journeys from centre to centre. Coming home from Cardiff, I am always struck by the way in which the service empties and then reloads at Merthyr for example. There are people who travel from Cardiff to north of Brecon but they seem a minority compared to people using it for shorter journeys. The journey at peak times is slow enough due to congestion without increasing dwell times by use of high floor vehicles.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

If low floor is really needed for the T4, then I think the Plaxton Panther LE (also on Volvo B8RLE chassis) would be the best option.

 

[brompton rail]

From Evesham to Derby, an alternative is to travel with Stagecoach X18 from Evesham to Coventry (possibly changing at Stratford). Then X6 to Leicester ( might be a coach?) to connect with Skylink to Derby.

Stagecoach X10 runs via M1 between Barnsley and Leeds, but may be a coach.

 

[brompton rail]

Think that should be
41 to Tewkesbury
540 to Evesham
51 to Worcester
144 to Birmingham

First’s regular service between Evesham and Worcester is the X50, the 51 is now only a school run!

 

[iantherev]

If low floor is really needed for the T4, then I think the Plaxton Panther LE (also on Volvo B8RLE chassis) would be the best option.

Too long. In any case the buses for the T4 were ordered by Powys County Council on behalf of Transport for Wales. They have a policy of preferring low floor buses to inter urban specification rather than coaches (with the exception of the Aberystwyth - Cardiff services). The Evoras work well and will be used on the route for a good few years yet. They were designed for the needs of regular passengers. Unfortunately the preferences of bus enthusiasts were not uppermost in their considerations.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Too long. In any case the buses for the T4 were ordered by Powys County Council on behalf of Transport for Wales. They have a policy of preferring low floor buses to inter urban specification rather than coaches (with the exception of the Aberystwyth - Cardiff services). The Evoras work well and will be used on the route for a good few years yet. They were designed for the needs of regular passengers. Unfortunately the preferences of bus enthusiasts were not uppermost in their considerations.

I do love the Volvo B8RLE Evoras, it was the fact I had a feeling that the T4 was a bit too long and way too fast for a low floor bus, that's all.

Volvo B8RLEs are much better than Streetlites or Enviro200s.

 

[iantherev]

I do love the Volvo B8RLE Evoras, it was the fact I had a feeling that the T4 was a bit too long and way too fast for a low floor bus, that's all.

Volvo B8RLEs are much better than Streetlites or Enviro200s.

Which are actually the back up buses for the route....

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Which are actually the back up buses for the route....

Oh god, will a Streetlite even be able to make it from Newtown all the way down to Cardiff?????

 

[iantherev]

It has been known. I had a 54 plate Dart SLF from Cardiff to Libanus this time last year - it performed better than at least one of the Optare Tempos.

in any case, apart from the gradual climb past us to the Storey Arms, it’s downhill most of the way...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oh god, will a Streetlite even be able to make it from Newtown all the way down to Cardiff?????

Think it’s e200s as backups. Stagecoach Cymru don’t have StreetLites AFAIK.

Also, I’d caution on thinking that the average journey duration is that much higher. No one does the full route and it actually is really a lot of shorter passenger journeys with it being a long distance bus service. You get a few out of Brecon on a run to Cardiff but not so much apart from that.

 

[iantherev]

Think it’s e200s as backups. Stagecoach Cymru don’t have StreetLites AFAIK.

Also, I’d caution on thinking that the average journey duration is that much higher. No one does the full route and it actually is really a lot of shorter passenger journeys with it being a long distance bus service. You get a few out of Brecon on a run to Cardiff but not so much apart from that.

Merthyr have 12 wheel forward versions. (One is long term VOR) 43010 was covering on the T14 this week because the back up Enviro was also out.

 

[Statto]

Some more shortcuts, if you want:
From Birmingham, NXWM operate direct to Lichfield regularly (X3 or X5, can't remember which).
From Derby, TrentBarton operate direct to Chesterfield as Comet

It's X3 to Lichfield, X5 goes to Roughley
X12 Lichfield-Burton, also 811/812
X38 Burton-Derby
Comet Derby-Chesterfield
X17 Chesterfield-Barnsley
X10 Barnsley-Leeds

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Merthyr have 12 wheel forward versions. (One is long term VOR) 43010 was covering on the T14 this week because the back up Enviro was also out.

Doh.... I was thinking of standard ones not minibuses!!! Completely forgot about the Olympic torch WF ones.

Even so, they surely don’t turf those out on the T4, even in extremis.....