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Can you upgrade Advance on train?

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Deerfold

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Hi,
My wife had an advance ticket with a change at Peterborough. She caught a connecting train an hour earlier. She asked to upgrade to an Anytime ticket, but was told she'd have to pay the full fare for the journey (£135).
Is this right?
 
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Nick66

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That’s how I have always understood it. Some TOCs will allow you to buy an Advance up to the time of travel, not sure if that would stretch to only paying the difference in price plus an admin fee though. Pretty certain you can’t upgrade on board though, I travel regularly and have overheard a few interesting conversations
 

Deerfold

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That’s how I have always understood it. Some TOCs will allow you to buy an Advance up to the time of travel, not sure if that would stretch to only paying the difference in price plus an admin fee though. Pretty certain you can’t upgrade on board though, I travel regularly and have overheard a few interesting conversations

She was told by the guard she should have upgraded at Peterborough. However she only had 11 minutes there.

She was told by platform staff (yes, I know) that she should be able to upgrade on board.
 

Nick66

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I've just had a look at my next advance ticket and it says "not refundable, exchangeable for a fee before travel", so yes, I think the guard was right. Now I think about it, not that it would help anyone joining the train at Peterborough, before leaving KGX the guard usually asks people to check their tickets and says that anyone who has an advance ticket for another service would have to buy a new ticket at full price.
 

gray1404

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You say she caught a connecting train an hour earlier. Therefore did she begin her travel an hour earlier or did she start her travel and get on an earlier connecting train?

Between what stations was she travelling with a change at Peterborough?
 

Deerfold

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I've had the full story from her.
She caught a train from Ipswich - the one on her itinerary (but not a reservable train in any case). When we booked, it booked her on a later train which was slower but avoided a further connection. She got to Peterborough and realised there was an earlier train.
She went to the information desk to ask if she could upgrade. They said she hasn't time to buy a ticket at the ticket office, so she should upgrade on the train.
She asked a member of staff on the platform and he said to ask the train staff. She asked a member of train staff as she boarded who said to sit in 1st and she'd be fine. A different member of staff came round and insisted she got a new ticket.

The really annoying thing is that if she'd known she was going to have to get a new ticket, she'd have sat in Standard.
 

Clip

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Time or not to change it is irrelevant - she should've tried to change it before she started her journey as per the T&Cs of advances.

really poor form of the ticket office at Peterborough telling her she could do it on the train though so go with that angle should you complain.
 

yorkie

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Hi,
My wife had an advance ticket with a change at Peterborough. She caught a connecting train an hour earlier. She asked to upgrade to an Anytime ticket, but was told she'd have to pay the full fare for the journey (£135).
Is this right?
If there was an opportunity to purchase before travel then:

If the appropriate fare for the journey made was £135 it is correct.

If the appropriate fare for the journey was less than £135 and she has been charged an Anytime fare when a (Super) Off Peak would have sufficed it is incorrect.
 

yorkie

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When we booked, it booked her on a later train which was slower but avoided a further connection. She got to Peterborough and realised there was an earlier train.
She went to the information desk to ask if she could upgrade.
I believe she should have been entitled to upgrade, on payment of the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate fare, plus a £10 supplement.

This is allowable as she wanted to take an earlier train and contrasts with the alternative scenario of when the train has been missed (unless a train company is deemed liable for the train to be missed)
They said she hasn't time to buy a ticket at the ticket office, so she should upgrade on the train.
That sounds to me like the ticket office has authorised the upgrade on the train, so contractually she is entitled to be upgraded.
She asked a member of staff on the platform and he said to ask the train staff. She asked a member of train staff as she boarded who said to sit in 1st and she'd be fine.
Again, she has been authorised to upgrade on the train twice, so that strengthens her position that she is entitled to the upgrade on board.
A different member of staff came round and insisted she got a new ticket.

The really annoying thing is that if she'd known she was going to have to get a new ticket, she'd have sat in Standard.
It sounds to me that the actions of the second member of staff were unlawful under contract & consumer laws, given that authorisation had been given by two other members of staff to upgrade on the train.

Unfortunately breaches of contract occur too often in the rail industry, for various reasons which are outside the scope of this thread, so I am not entirely surprised that such a breach has occurred on this occasion, sadly.

The matter should therefore be referred back to the train company and a refund should be sought.
 

rdwarr

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really poor form of the ticket office at Peterborough telling her she could do it on the train though so go with that angle should you complain.

That's not what happened though. She was advised NOT to go to the ticket office.
 

Haywain

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I've had the full story from her.
She caught a train from Ipswich - the one on her itinerary (but not a reservable train in any case). When we booked, it booked her on a later train which was slower but avoided a further connection. She got to Peterborough and realised there was an earlier train.
She went to the information desk to ask if she could upgrade. They said she hasn't time to buy a ticket at the ticket office, so she should upgrade on the train.
She asked a member of staff on the platform and he said to ask the train staff. She asked a member of train staff as she boarded who said to sit in 1st and she'd be fine. A different member of staff came round and insisted she got a new ticket.

The really annoying thing is that if she'd known she was going to have to get a new ticket, she'd have sat in Standard.
You use the word 'upgrade' quite a lot there - is it the case that this was an Advance ticket used on an earlier train or a standard class flexible ticket used in first class?
 

DelW

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She went to the information desk to ask if she could upgrade. They said she hasn't time to buy a ticket at the ticket office, so she should upgrade on the train.
She asked a member of staff on the platform and he said to ask the train staff. She asked a member of train staff as she boarded who said to sit in 1st and she'd be fine. A different member of staff came round and insisted she got a new ticket.

The really annoying thing is that if she'd known she was going to have to get a new ticket, she'd have sat in Standard.
Not sure I've understood the exact circumstances, but might there have been a lack of clarity as to what type of upgrade was needed?

If the staff thought she was needing to upgrade from Standard (anytime) to First (anytime), then "sit in 1st and pay the extra" could have been correct advice, i.e. the staff she asked might not have realised she wanted to upgrade from an Advance to an Anytime.

(PS Written before Haywain suggested something similar above)
 
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