Cancellation of Last Train

[northernchris]

If the last train of the day is cancelled does the operator have a duty to ensure passengers get to their destination? Reason I ask is on Saturday the last Leeds-Ilkley service was cancelled and no alternative was offered.

 

[Qwerty133]

Anyone already holding a ticket must either be transported (by road) at the railways expense or put up in a hotel overnight. Obviously in a case such as this it is by far more economical to pay for onward transport so onward transport should have been offered. For people not already holding a ticket it is less clear cut but I am of the opinion that there is no contract in place and the railway can refuse to create one meaning there is no liability and the railway has no obligations to provide onwards transport.

 

[Taunton]

Given that the railway provides a ticket office for people to buy their tickets at point of departure, it seems a bit unreasonable to tell them they cannot buy them and to go away. It also doesn't correspond with experience.

 

[Qwerty133]

Given that the railway provides a ticket office for people to buy their tickets at point of departure, it seems a bit unreasonable to tell them they cannot buy them and to go away. It also doesn't correspond with experience.

Train companies are allowed to behave more favourably towards the public that the minimum service level provided by the NRCOT and in cases of isolated disruption involving a handful of passengers will usually do so (and for various reasons to do with good will would normally be in TOCs interest to do so).

 

[noddingdonkey]

Looking at RTT it seems that the 21.07 ex Leeds failed at Burley in Wharfedale, and the line was cleared in time for the last service from Bradford.

I'm surprised that the ex Bradford train wasn't held at Shipley (timetabled to depart 23.27) to connect with the 23.21 Leeds-Skipton (timetabled 23.33) although the ex Bradford was 9 late and Shipley is not the easiest of stations for a quick platform change.

 

[highspeed990]

Your issue is very similar to mine. Mine is more complicated as it involves a different company's delay causing me to miss a last train, but according to what people have told me, and what I know, if the last train is cancelled they must honour your ticket by providing a taxi for short distance or putting you in a hotel if it is too far. I made a thread asking for the conditions of carriage and some very helpful people replied with it, you can head to my thread, and copy and paste the coc that was posted, so in case you meet unpleasant staff, you can let them know they are in a contractual agreement.

 

[northernchris]

Anyone already holding a ticket must either be transported (by road) at the railways expense or put up in a hotel overnight. Obviously in a case such as this it is by far more economical to pay for onward transport so onward transport should have been offered. For people not already holding a ticket it is less clear cut but I am of the opinion that there is no contract in place and the railway can refuse to create one meaning there is no liability and the railway has no obligations to provide onwards transport.

Thanks for the clarification, suspected this would be the case. Poor show from Northern then

 

[TBirdFrank]

No change there then!

 

[Taunton]

I'm surprised that the ex Bradford train wasn't held at Shipley (timetabled to depart 23.27) to connect with the 23.21 Leeds-Skipton (timetabled 23.33) although the ex Bradford was 9 late and Shipley is not the easiest of stations for a quick platform change.

I am afraid the requirement to report punctuality statistics to the DfT (and then have them waved around in public) is behind this. If a train is cancelled then it's cancelled. But if an alteration like this is then made to help people, then it's a cancellation AND a delay to be reported.

 

[Antman]

If the last train of the day is cancelled does the operator have a duty to ensure passengers get to their destination? Reason I ask is on Saturday the last Leeds-Ilkley service was cancelled and no alternative was offered.

Fortunately I've never been in that situation, hopefully it's a very rare occurrence, but I was told by a railwayman that if you've got a ticket then they have to get you to your destination come hell or high water. He told me of one example where some sort of incident on the ECML meant a train getting into Kings Cross in the early hours and taxis being provided to places as far away as Portsmouth.

 

[455refurb]

In my experience this is the case. A few years ago the last SWT Guildford-Waterloo via Epsom service left Guildford 25L causing me to miss my last connection at Epsom for onward travel to Sutton on Southern. I had a chat with the SN staff at Epsom, who kindly contacted SWT control, and a taxi to Sutton was provided at SWT's expense.

Whether this sort of arrangement for a cross-TOC consequential delay is specified in the NRCoT or not, I'm not sure. But in my case it was no hassle to arrange - although it did need me to seek it out on my own initiative, it wasn't in any way publicised.

 

[Andyh82]

In this case many customers would have possibly had a Metrocard. Would a general ticket like that constitute a ticket as it isn't specifically for Leeds to Ilkley.

Could they also point you in the direction of a service bus, if one existed and it was covered by your ticket.

 

[Skie]

Had a ticket to get me to my local Merseyrail station but ended up not arriving into Lime Street until nearly 1am thanks to Virgin. They were unhelpful and most of their staff had buggered off by that time so passengers were left to arrange their own taxis home.

 

[Starmill]

There have been very many occasions where my final train home has been cancelled due to things like emergency engineering work or, more often, a train crew shortage. On almost all of them a bus has been arranged and transported us there without undue difficulties. I'm cases where only a handful of people were affected I've also been put in a taxi too. Quite why neither option was possible in this case I have no idea.

 

[LiftFan]

I'm not sure what the outcome would be if the final train from Bristol Temple Meads to Frome were to be cancelled - All other public service buses have already finished long ago and I'm unsure whether the taxi companies operate that late into the evening.

 

[johntea]

In this case many customers would have possibly had a Metrocard. Would a general ticket like that constitute a ticket as it isn't specifically for Leeds to Ilkley.

Could they also point you in the direction of a service bus, if one existed and it was covered by your ticket.

You can claim, but may have a battle on your hands bounced between Metro and the TOC! It's an interesting question as to what major West Yorkshire destinations don't have a later bus than the last train service actually.

I have never been offered a hotel by a TOC, guess it is usually cheaper to shove several people in a taxi fare for a couple of hundred quid at such short notice!

 

[Mikey C]

I was once meant to catch the last train back from Bicester North to London, but there was a major problem so it was cancelled. Instead the tiny number of passengers were put on a not in service train to Princes, then 3 of us shared a taxi back to London. Quite a quick journey back that time of night, straight down the M40 and A40 to Marylebone!

 

[Qwerty133]

I'm not sure what the outcome would be if the final train from Bristol Temple Meads to Frome were to be cancelled - All other public service buses have already finished long ago and I'm unsure whether the taxi companies operate that late into the evening.

Taxis are available 24/7 in most areas, and almost certainly are in a city the size of Bristol

 

[northernchris]

You can claim, but may have a battle on your hands bounced between Metro and the TOC! It's an interesting question as to what major West Yorkshire destinations don't have a later bus than the last train service actually.

I have never been offered a hotel by a TOC, guess it is usually cheaper to shove several people in a taxi fare for a couple of hundred quid at such short notice!

Northern don't compensate MCard holders - it took them 3 months to send me an email confirming that earlier this year! Apparently as it is a Metro product it is exempt from Delay Repay

 

[tiptoptaff]

I taxi Bristol crews home on occasion after working that Frome so taxis are definitely available

 

[alexl92]

What happens if the last train is cancelled and you are at an un-manned Station - so there’s nobody to ask about alternative travel options? I can’t remember seeing a phone number for Northern displayed at many stations.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'm not sure what the outcome would be if the final train from Bristol Temple Meads to Frome were to be cancelled - All other public service buses have already finished long ago and I'm unsure whether the taxi companies operate that late into the evening.

From Temple meads and you'll be fine. 11.20pm is not that late for a city like Bristol so there will be taxi's fairly easily available (and buses towards Bath).

The people who will have more of an issue are those aiming to board at Keynsham, Freshford etc (though Keynsham specifically again still has the option of the buses to Bath).

 

[Bantamzen]

In this case many customers would have possibly had a Metrocard. Would a general ticket like that constitute a ticket as it isn't specifically for Leeds to Ilkley.

Could they also point you in the direction of a service bus, if one existed and it was covered by your ticket.

The last X84 to Ilkley on a Saturday leaves Leeds bus station at 22:15. There is a 23:05 departure for Otley which would reduce the cost of a taxi (I haven't checked if there is a late service from Otley to Ilkley), however depending on when the service concerned was cancelled and when the OP arrived at the station & became aware may have meant at best a fair sprint across Leeds to get towards the nearest stops either on The Headrow or Woodhouse Lane.

Sadly this is another example of a disjointed public transport network, where some regular users fall between the gaps of cover when things go wrong. MCards are increasingly a standard for many commuters and other less regular travellers, so really Arriva & Metro need to reach some kind of agreement as to what happens in these instances, and who would be responsible for getting passengers to their destinations.

Edit: Having just checked, there is no late service that would connect off the 23:05 out of Leeds at Otley, so this option would require a taxi from there.

 

[Antman]

What happens if the last train is cancelled and you are at an un-manned Station - so there’s nobody to ask about alternative travel options? I can’t remember seeing a phone number for Northern displayed at many stations.

That's a good question and on that could be asked of many bus operators as well, surely they should have a staffed phone number for such emergencies throughout operational hours?

 

[AlterEgo]

That's a good question and on that could be asked of many bus operators as well, surely they should have a staffed phone number for such emergencies throughout operational hours?

National Rail Enquiries is that number, though it should be better publicised.

 

[Antman]

Had a ticket to get me to my local Merseyrail station but ended up not arriving into Lime Street until nearly 1am thanks to Virgin. They were unhelpful and most of their staff had buggered off by that time so passengers were left to arrange their own taxis home.

Shouldn't the guard/train manager have dealt with the matter? Surely nobody should be left stranded in such circumstances?

 

[221129]

Shouldn't the guard/train manager have dealt with the matter? Surely nobody should be left stranded in such circumstances?

Depends, were the on board crew aware that there were missed last connections? How many people? Where did the delay take place? etc.

 

[Antman]

Depends, were the on board crew aware that there were missed last connections? How many people? Where did the delay take place? etc.

The OBM could have walked through the train asking people about their onward journey or made an announcement for anybody who has missed their last train to come and see him when they get to Lime Street.

 

[221129]

The OBM could have walked through the train asking people about their onward journey or made an announcement for anybody who has missed their last train to come and see him when they get to Lime Street.

Or the passengers could take a bit of personal responsibility for their journey.

 

[Antman]

Or the passengers could take a bit of personal responsibility for their journey.

What do you suggest, drive the train themselves?