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cancelling stops on a running train which is the last service of the day?!

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miklcct

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The live departure board currently shows an SWR train to Weymouth is delayed at Bournemouth due to shortage of train crew, and it shows a few stations are cancelled as well, including Branksome, Parkstone, Hamworthy, Wool, Moreton and Upwey.

This train is the last service of the day. Is the SWR going to leave passengers stranded at night in this case?
 
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Nova1

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They are required to get you to your destination or sort an alternative somehow. This could be anything from directing you to a bus service with ticket acceptance or them paying for it, to getting you a taxi, to putting you in a hotel for the night.

they probably have a customer services number but using the help point at the station will probably get you a faster reponse.
 

miklcct

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They are required to get you to your destination or sort an alternative somehow. This could be anything from directing you to a bus service with ticket acceptance or them paying for it, to getting you a taxi, to putting you in a hotel for the night.

they probably have a customer services number but using the help point at the station will probably get you a faster reponse.
Is this applicable if I hold a ticket but travel hasn't started yet? For example, if I want to catch the last westbound train at Branksome with a valid unused ticket? Also, is there a help point at every station which can get a response in train operating hours?
 

Glenn1969

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RTT says the 2124 and 2224 from Bournemouth to Weymouth left at 2224 and 2234 respectively with the former running non stop to at least Moreton. Presume the latter service is picking up the stops?
 

pompeyfan

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The SWR help points are staffed throughout the night, I know someone on the information team that does the job.

in regards to running fast on the last train of the day it’s not unheard of for network rail to put pressure on a TOC if there is a possession booked to come on.
 

Class800

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The final one of the night was 22.24 out of Bournemouth which left 23 late and omitted Branksome, Parkstone, Hamworthy, Wool and Upwey. I wasn't there so can't comment on what happened. But I don't find it very acceptable at all. The only exception would be if very clear alternative plans were communicated to relevant passengers at Bournemouth, not leaving them at some country halt in the late evening, hoping the help point connects. As the customer service phone lines close early. And with SWR I've experienced times where help points don't work and needed to call the number. A Guard told me once that in the case of a stranding, it's the Emergency not Information button to press on the help point, but don't know if that's universally accepted.
 

deltic

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The final one of the night was 22.24 out of Bournemouth which left 23 late and omitted Branksome, Parkstone, Hamworthy, Wool and Upwey. I wasn't there so can't comment on what happened. But I don't find it very acceptable at all. The only exception would be if very clear alternative plans were communicated to relevant passengers at Bournemouth, not leaving them at some country halt in the late evening, hoping the help point connects. As the customer service phone lines close early. And with SWR I've experienced times where help points don't work and needed to call the number. A Guard told me once that in the case of a stranding, it's the Emergency not Information button to press on the help point, but don't know if that's universally accepted.
If you werent there how do you know if they didnt check to see if anyone actually wanted these stops beofre dropping them
 

yorksrob

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The SWR help points are staffed throughout the night, I know someone on the information team that does the job.

in regards to running fast on the last train of the day it’s not unheard of for network rail to put pressure on a TOC if there is a possession booked to come on.


Is this the new supposedly customer focused Network Rail that the latest chief exec has been waxing lyrical about ?
 

Kettledrum

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I've been "stranded" at Bournemouth station before now, and the staff were excellent at sorting out taxis to some of these destinations.
 

mmh

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If you werent there how do you know if they didnt check to see if anyone actually wanted these stops beofre dropping them

I very much doubt anybody went to the omitted stations to check if anyone was waiting at them. From bitter and almost daily experience, the railway has no concern over dropping stops at unstaffed stations with no warning to passengers who might be waiting at them.
 

Spartacus

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Is this the new supposedly customer focused Network Rail that the latest chief exec has been waxing lyrical about ?

Depends on the customer's point of view. You could let the delayed last train run, delay the possession and delay half a dozen or more trains in the morning.
 

randyrippley

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And also the driver may only agree to work the train if stops are taken out.
Can't be many industries which are dependent on employee randomly "agreeing to work" properly. For most of us, telling an employer we'd only work if the days workload was cut would result in a rapid ejection
 

Spartacus

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Can't be many industries which are dependent on employee randomly "agreeing to work" properly. For most of us, telling an employer we'd only work if the days workload was cut would result in a rapid ejection

This example would probably have resulted in the driver working beyond their booked hours as it was running late. You're well within your rights to go home at your agreed time leaving your company to sort whatever mess out if you like. There's a rather famous meme about it.
 
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LAX54

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Can't be many industries which are dependent on employee randomly "agreeing to work" properly. For most of us, telling an employer we'd only work if the days workload was cut would result in a rapid ejection
Not 100% sure if that is the case, A Passenger train with booked stops, will I think have little choice, but if the TOC decides not to call that is different, I imagine that the TOC will be aware of passenger loadings at little used stations too,
edit...looks like no driver, so another driver came off his booked working to assist, and get the passengers to Weymouth, seems as it was also late, the lightly used stops were taken out.
 
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Tomnick

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Can't be many industries which are dependent on employee randomly "agreeing to work" properly. For most of us, telling an employer we'd only work if the days workload was cut would result in a rapid ejection
If a driver's last train is running significantly late, then the day's workload (in terms of time at least) has already been added to, not cut. I'd like to think that most employers wishing their staff to work potentially well beyond their contracted hours would seek agreement rather than forcing it upon them - traincrew are generally at a disadvantage in that respect because there's not a lot that you can do about it if you're away from your home depot!

That said, it's pretty rare for stops to be cut out just to save the traincrew overtime. If the traincrew are a factor, it's more likely to be break parameters or continuous driving time ("if this train runs as booked, it's certain that I'll exceed my continuous driving hours so I need a break before I set off"), or an eye on protecting their next turn of duty after rest.
 

[.n]

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I've often been "stranded" down that end of the line, it really does need some better thinking from SWR as to what happens in between Bournemouth and Weymouth with disruption/ last train cancellation / skip stopping etc - especially with the stops that are in the middle of nowhere. In the past I've found it beneficial to either sort something out at Bournemouth (as its staffed) or Weymouth (again as its staffed) - its generally never been helpful using a help point - in my experience trying to explain where you are and the issue is nigh on impossible (even at places like Dorchester South) - its never been SWR staff that have answered late at night
 

mmh

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This example would probably have resulted in the driver working beyond their booked hours as it was running late. You're well within your rights to go home at your agreed time leaving your company to sort whatever mess out if you like. There's a rather famous meme about it.

Meanwhile in the rest of the transport world pragmatism exists and hard shoulders are not littered with HGVs following road closures for accidents.

Not 100% sure if that is the case, A Passenger train with booked stops, will I think have little choice, but if the TOC decides not to call that is different, I imagine that the TOC will be aware of passenger loadings at little used stations too,
edit...looks like no driver, so another driver came off his booked working to assist, and get the passengers to Weymouth, seems as it was also late, the lightly used stops were taken out.

As a passenger whose trains are removed from stopping on an almost daily basis, the fact that my station is little used is of no comfort.
 

LAX54

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Meanwhile in the rest of the transport world pragmatism exists and hard shoulders are not littered with HGVs following road closures for accidents.
But laybys and service areas are :) If an HGV goes over their time and they are caught............. !
 

GB

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Meanwhile in the rest of the transport world pragmatism exists and hard shoulders are not littered with HGVs following road closures for accidents.

Firstly I have seen many HGVs tucked under motorway bridges, but no, HGVs are not generally littering motorways after accidents because it is deemed more of a risk to have scores of trucks and drivers sitting on the hard shoulder. They would be expected to vacate at the nearest point and opportunity though.

If a following days train was cancelled because the booked driver was late booking off previous shift I assume you wouldn't be too chuffed with it. I also assume you wouldn't be too impressed if the driver did go over hours and ended up having an incident. The rules regarding continuous driving, pnbs and shift lengths are there for a reason.
 

The Planner

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Is this the new supposedly customer focused Network Rail that the latest chief exec has been waxing lyrical about ?
It isn't as black and white as that as I suspect you well know but wanted to put the cheap shot in anyway. If it was a normal maintenance opportunity during a week or weekend night, then chances are depending on the work planned the delayed train would run. However, if it was preceding an entire weekend or longer disruptive block and if it would put any programme at risk, then yes I would expect NR to put pressure on the TOC to cancel or amend it. Either that or NR come back and want further access. In the OPs case I very much doubt NR was even interested as the blocks down there don't come on until 2355.
 

yorksrob

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Firstly I have seen many HGVs tucked under motorway bridges, but no, HGVs are not generally littering motorways after accidents because it is deemed more of a risk to have scores of trucks and drivers sitting on the hard shoulder. They would be expected to vacate at the nearest point and opportunity though.

If a following days train was cancelled because the booked driver was late booking off previous shift I assume you wouldn't be too chuffed with it. I also assume you wouldn't be too impressed if the driver did go over hours and ended up having an incident. The rules regarding continuous driving, pnbs and shift lengths are there for a reason.

The next days train running late wouldn't be such an issue as there would be one following it.
 

Tomnick

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Meanwhile in the rest of the transport world pragmatism exists and hard shoulders are not littered with HGVs following road closures for accidents.
If anything, it's the railway that's able to take a more pragmatic approach during disruption, because the restrictions on working hours and breaks aren't mandated by law as they are for HGV/coach/bus drivers. There's limits even to that though, and there'll come a point where it's quite reasonable for either the driver or for the company to say "no" because fatigue is becoming an issue, quite apart from the contractual issues of course. Extending the shift length significantly because you're stuck away from home is one thing, but taking breaks when required is pretty much sacrosanct - if you know that it's impossible for you to complete a journey without exceeding your PNB parameters or continuous driving time, then it'd be irresponsible to set out without insisting on taking the proper break first (unless, by taking stops out, getting there 'in time' becomes achievable...).
 

Jan Mayen

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Stuff happens. As a passenger for more decades than I care to remember, this is what I'd like to happen if my last train from Bournemouth to Wayside Halt is cancelled:
I approach staff, who apologize on behalf of the railway, then offer to arrange a taxi (would Sir like to be taken directly home, as it's so late?). Obviously, if it's too many for a taxi, then it'll be a bus. If it's too many for a bus, perhaps the stop needs reinstating?

If I'm at Wayside Halt and discover last train to Weymouth is cancelled, I'd like to consult a poster with a title something like WHAT TO DO IF YOUR TRAIN IS CANCELLED.
I'd expect the instructions to read something like:
Please use the help point information button to get advice and assistance. If that doesn't work, then please use the EMERGENCY button to advise you are stranded.
If that doesn't work, please call the railway on this free phone number from either your mobile or public telephone (your nearest is...)
If that doesn't work, please make your own arrangements (local taxi firms are listed here), keeping receipts so the railway can repay you, when you claim Delay Repay.

Does all that sound reasonable?
 

Robertj21a

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If anything, it's the railway that's able to take a more pragmatic approach during disruption, because the restrictions on working hours and breaks aren't mandated by law as they are for HGV/coach/bus drivers. There's limits even to that though, and there'll come a point where it's quite reasonable for either the driver or for the company to say "no" because fatigue is becoming an issue, quite apart from the contractual issues of course. Extending the shift length significantly because you're stuck away from home is one thing, but taking breaks when required is pretty much sacrosanct - if you know that it's impossible for you to complete a journey without exceeding your PNB parameters or continuous driving time, then it'd be irresponsible to set out without insisting on taking the proper break first (unless, by taking stops out, getting there 'in time' becomes achievable...).
You've lost me......

So, if a train driver sets out on time but then has a significant delay (train fault/customer illness etc) that takes them past their break time, he has to stop, regardless ?
 

43066

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You've lost me......

So, if a train driver sets out on time but then has a significant delay (train fault/customer illness etc) that takes them past their break time, he has to stop, regardless ?

No, you’d generally finish that journey (subject to not feeling too fatigued to safely continue, in which case you’d usually be relieved en route).

However you wouldn’t start a journey knowing it would take you beyond your required break time (tempting as it might be, to make your own day shorter!). If you did so, and had an incident, you’d likely be blamed for being fatigued.

This is the kind of scenario where control might take stops out to get you back on time.
 
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