Car and Caravan Trapped at Crossing near Selby

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Train2Win, 22 May 2015.

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  1. Train2Win

    Train2Win Member

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    http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/12967959.Car_and_caravan_trapped_on_railway_line___UPDATED/
    How did this happen was the driver speeding to get through or was it a Network Rail malfunction ?
     
  2. mbreckers

    mbreckers Member

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    I would guess the driver zig-zagged through thinking they could beat the barrier
     
  3. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Should ban them for life. Obviously not fit to be let loose on the roads.
     
  4. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    That would be my guess as well.
     
  5. ilkestonian

    ilkestonian Member

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    Not necessarily zig-zagging. Not too easy to zig-zag that quickly with a caravan in tow! Could just have been trying to nip through when the reds were flashing; the barrier then coming down onto the car roof. It would finish up between car and caravan as shown in the picture.

    Whatever, a hefty fine or ban should be the result IMHO.
     
  6. 1018509

    1018509 Member

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    It looks like the driver went through the the first gate without ensuring the exit was clear for the entire length of his vehicle - tw@t!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I regularly tow a caravan and wouldn't dream of entering a level crossing without a clear exit with or without my caravan in tow.

    Has there ever been an accident at a level crossing where it was proved that the level crossing equipment failed?
     
  7. richw

    richw Established Member

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    Down here I've noticed very few drivers obey yellow box junction as seen on the photos here. But they are not for level crossings.
    Pure stupidity and shouldn't be on the road. Yellow box junction suggests the traffic backs up here often.
     
  8. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    What a poor way of handling things.

    This is what should have happened.

    a) Signallers realised caravan was trapped on crossing.
    b) Police dispatched to establish that caravan was empty.
    c) Signallers gave permission for driver to proceed at full line speed.
    d) Incident captured on CCTV and posted on YouTube to receive millions of views.
    e) Google AdSense revenue from views to help fund HS2 (and perhaps HS3 and HS4).
     
  9. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Perhaps this needs to be shown again:

    [youtube]QpP7gMPzC78[/youtube]

    Train going at speed, weighing many tons is always going to pulverise a car or caravan. It ain't worth the risk.
     
  10. bungle965

    bungle965 Established Member

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    "And according to British Rail or whatever they are called these days":lol:
    Classic Clarkson.

    But on a serious note, don't risk it is never worth it.What will you save a few seconds if that.
     
  11. swj99

    swj99 Member

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    Ban what, crossing barriers ?

    Wouldn't it be better to wait and see what the accident report says, rather than speculating and name calling ? If it only happened today, the report won't have already been published will it ?

    On the plus side, at least it might be one less caravan for Clarkson to destroy.
     
  12. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I think the photo makes it clear what happened. The report will just go into finer detail, and probably confirm there was no technical fault.

    I might be wrong, but I'm pretty certain I won't be.
     
  13. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    The driver either zig zagged or stalled/broke down.

    The entry barriers close first to allow drivers to escape if they are already on the crossing.
     
  14. CockneySparrow

    CockneySparrow Established Member

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    You can see from the picture he didn't zig zag, traffic was backed up and the idiot couldn't wait the other side of the crossing so sat on the crossing the. The barriers come down
     
  15. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    There was a recent incident in the United States involving a bus in a similar situation. Passengers had to bang on the doors and screaming to alert the driver to the approaching train, and all passengers and the driver managed to escape in the nick of time. The driver has been hailed as a hero despite occupying a level crossing with no route of escape. The footage from CCTV on the bus has gone viral.

    Surely the highway code classes level crossings as the equivalent of 'box junctions' which should not be occupied unless an exit is clear? A ban and retest would be appropriate I feel.
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2015
  16. sbt

    sbt Member

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    Not quite meeting your exact criteria but I think 'in the spirit of':

    In the 1970s there was a fatality in the village we were then living in. My mother knew the victim. A train overran the end of the station platform and hit a car on the crossing that immediately followed it. A per usual the press and 'railway' knee jerk was to blame the driver. The investigation showed that the barriers were up and the road open, as per the sequence usual at that time.

    Not that long ago (last year I think) a car was trapped on a crossing due to a failure of the crossing surface. The driver escaped. There have been other failures of the surface with the potential to trap vehicles.

    There have been at least three 'near misses' with barriers raised as trains passed through in the last five years. One was a very close miss on the rear of a LPG tanker.

    More tenuously:

    Halkirk 2009 (3 dead) was driver error strongly assisted by poor design, alignment and maintenance of the warning lights.

    There have been several fatalities at footpath crossings due to poor design which misled users or made it difficult or impossible for them to safely check that it was clear to cross (eg. Fence or Equipment Cabinet in the required sightline)

    There was a near miss recently where a wheelchair user was trapped when he encountered an unsurfaced part of the footway on a road crossing. He left his chair and dragged himself free but his chair was hit.

    There have been a number of UWC collisions where the sightline to check it was safe to cross was blocked by vegetation or items on the railway side of the fence.
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2015
  17. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    Never cross until you can see your exit is clear especially when you have a cart on the back end. Simples!!!
     
  18. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Highway Code Rule 291:

    (My bold)

    Source
     
  19. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    That is an open crossing though, isn't it, so no gates to fail?
     
  20. lincolnshire

    lincolnshire Member

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    This crossing used to be controlled by a crossing keeper in the signal box, he also looked down the track to Thorpe Hall very close by on a road just off the main road where the caravan was trapped and worked this one too.

    Both crossings was converted to obstacle detection ones a couple of years ago, I do believe they have had a lot of teething problems with these style of crossings.

    One of the first of these was tested at Filey just at the end of the station, which didn,t get many non stop trains as most either was stopping in the station going to Bridlington or actually had stopped in the station before pulling out to Scarborough. It was also still equipped with its working CCTV cameras from before its conversion to obstacle detection.

    These are the same style as whats been put in on East Coast mainline north of Doncaster I understand.
     
  21. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Now we have the knee-jerk assumption that it is the railways responsibility to prevent all crossing incidents, regardless of whether the motorist is at fault or not.
     
  22. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Except that we all make mistakes or errors of judgement..........so not quite that simple!
     
  23. TheNewNo2

    TheNewNo2 Member

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    Points to the signaller for a good catch.
     
  24. Alan White

    Alan White Member

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    I have no experience of driving a caravan or other long vehicle but I suspect I'd err on the side of caution and phone the signaller before attempting to cross.

    Don't crossings have detectors to check that the crossing is clear before closing the barriers? If not why not?
     
  25. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    On a crossing like that as long as your exit is clear (i.e. enough room for you and your trailer) then I don't see any need to phone the signaller. The barriers don't just snap down, there is a short warning period and then the entry barriers come down and then the exit barriers come down.

    As long as you can drive straight across without stopping there is no danger of being trapped and no need to call the signaller. On user worked crossings then I would certainly call before trying to take a long/slow vehicle across.
     
  26. broadgage

    broadgage Member

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    Some crossings including the one in this incident are monitored by a signaller using CCTV.
    Other crossings have no such monitoring but rely on road users following the rules.
    Automatic detection of obstructions has been tried with rather limited success. To reliably detect obstacles large or heavy enough to endanger a train, but avoid false alarms from say a refuse bag blown by the wind is not easy.

    My rather cynical view is that fitting obstacle detectors to level crossings will only encourage more motorists to break the rules, knowing that it is "safe" to so do.
     
  27. Tomnick

    Tomnick Established Member

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    If anything, though, obstacle detection technology makes it more likely that a motorist will come unstuck when trying to beat the barriers, as there's no-one to observe the developing situation and manually intervene! Any danger from trains at a full barrier crossing is minimal, whether at an MCB-OD crossing or one that's conventionally supervised directly or by CCTV.

    In response to others - if it's necessary to phone for permission to cross, there'll be instructions to that effect at or on the approach to the crossing. Leaving aside user worked crossings, it's only AHBs (automatic half barriers) and a handful of other crossings that have that requirement, and then only for long, low or slow vehicles that might take considerably longer to cross than a normal vehicle. The only instructions applicable to a car and caravan combo read "stop when lights show" and "keep crossing clear" - simple ;) .
     
  28. Yabbadabba

    Yabbadabba Member

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    I was under the impression that this crossing concerned was in a MCB-OD and not a MCB-CCTV so there are no cameras there except the ANPR cameras and the proof of flashing red cameras. Which you can just make out on the trailing barriers wig wag light cluster.
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2015
  29. Ediswan

    Ediswan Member

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    As with all the best rules, exceptions are possible. Take this crossing, now closed https://goo.gl/maps/QYTWS. Google can see over the hump, a car driver could not. It was not possible to tell if the exit was clear or not. Not a problem though as the crossing was manually operated. The crossing keeper would come out, do something (I forget what) to stop the traffic on the near side. Go over and close the gate on the far side, then come back and close the gate on the near side.
     
  30. lincolnshire

    lincolnshire Member

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    The signal person had a blind catch as there are no cameras at these crossings, all he knows its not cleared for him to pull off for the train.

    Until some one rings him or someone arrives nobody will know whats wrong?
    Bet the guy with the caravan was on that phone rather sharp.

    Also don,t think he can raise barriers either so there would be delay to trains till the old MOM arrives to sort things out.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    You don,t have CCTV monitoring the crossing with obstacle detection so the signal person is blind as to whats going on and then when the barriers have come down then is detects and sweeps the crossing for any obstacles to make sure its clear for trains too pass etc.

    These was introduced to save money by removing staff as this box used to be worked by one crossing keeper and was a two shift location so all in all it most probably required a staffing level with reliefs etc of about 4 and most probably 5 staff. So maybe 5 crossing keeper grade staff wages saved as if you put the control of this crossing with CCTV into the nearest box maybe Selby West he all ready is at his maximum number of CCTV crossing at this location for one person per shift to work this box, anymore and it needs double manning.

    Wait till the ROC at York takes over ?

    Also this road was till the bypass was built used to be the A63 a main road.

    Most probably caused by someone in front of the car & caravan maybe turning into his drive or the side road where another crossing of the same design is at Thorpe Hall and causing that momentary stop long enough to cause him to be unlucky with his caravan.

    Wonder if the driver of the had any brown undies?
     
    Last edited: 23 May 2015
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