Car and Caravan Trapped at Crossing near Selby

[carriageline]

Seems some confusion over how OD barriers work.

From what I was told by the commissioning staff, the following happens:

Once the sequence is started, the area is scanned for obstructions.

If clear, then whilst (or after, can't remember now!) the facing barriers are down/lowering it is again swept for obstructions.

Once all 4 barriers are detected down, it is swept once more for confirmation the crossing is clear.

Once the OD has scanned and confirmed clear, "crossing clear" is given to the interlocking, and signals are able to be cleared.

If an obstacle is detected, then the facing barriers will raise to release the obstacle (this will happen twice if the obstacle is still there after). If the obstacle is still there after 2 raises, all 4 barriers will raise and the signaller will get an "obstacle detected" fault, and the crossing will drop out of auto.

I was under the impression that this crossing concerned was in a MCB-OD and not a MCB-CCTV so there are no cameras there except the ANPR cameras and the proof of flashing red cameras. Which you can just make out on the trailing barriers light clusters.

There is CCTV at OD crossings, (provided on the back of the wigwags) and is available by dialling into an IP address using software/webpage, but I don't believe that has been approved for use yet.

Note: these are how ODs I control work, I presume it's all similar!

 

[Tomnick]

As with all the best rules, exceptions are possible. Take this crossing, now closed https://goo.gl/maps/QYTWS. Google can see over the hump, a car driver could not. It was not possible to tell if the exit was clear or not. Not a problem though as the crossing was manually operated. The crossing keeper would come out, do something (I forget what) to stop the traffic on the near side. Go over and close the gate on the far side, then come back and close the gate on the near side.

Another 'exception' here (Wokingham - link to Streetview). Although 'keep crossing clear' signs are provided (and it's reasonable to expect motorists not to start crossing if they can clearly see that they won't be able to get clear on the other side), vehicles approaching the camera in the linked photo might find that they then have to stop, foul of the crossing, to wait for a gap to enter the mini-roundabout. There's not much that they can do to avoid stopping there!

 

[DaleCooper]

Another 'exception' here (Wokingham - link to Streetview). Although 'keep crossing clear' signs are provided (and it's reasonable to expect motorists not to start crossing if they can clearly see that they won't be able to get clear on the other side), vehicles approaching the camera in the linked photo might find that they then have to stop, foul of the crossing, to wait for a gap to enter the mini-roundabout. There's not much that they can do to avoid stopping there!

I get nervous driving over level crossings at the best of times, if I lived in Wokingham I'd find another route.

 

[ainsworth74]

Another 'exception' here (Wokingham - link to Streetview). Although 'keep crossing clear' signs are provided (and it's reasonable to expect motorists not to start crossing if they can clearly see that they won't be able to get clear on the other side), vehicles approaching the camera in the linked photo might find that they then have to stop, foul of the crossing, to wait for a gap to enter the mini-roundabout. There's not much that they can do to avoid stopping there!

Rather perfectly there is a tanker there to clearly demonstrate the issue! If that tanker can't get straight onto the roundabout then it's going to totally foul the line.

 

[Yabbadabba]

There is CCTV at OD crossings, (provided on the back of the wigwags) and is available by dialling into an IP address using software/webpage, but I don't believe that has been approved for use yet.

Note: these are how ODs I control work, I presume it's all similar!

As I already said above, I have pictures of your Polegate ones on my camera phone somewhere.

 

[Antman]

I get nervous driving over level crossings at the best of times, if I lived in Wokingham I'd find another route.

I find that quite astonishing!

 

[Darandio]

There was a recent incident in the United States involving a bus in a similar situation. Passengers had to bang on the doors and screaming to alert the driver to the approaching train, and all passengers and the driver managed to escape in the nick of time. The driver has been hailed as a hero despite occupying a level crossing with no route of escape. The footage from CCTV on the bus has gone viral.

The driver didn't, he was on board when the bus was struck.

 

[DaleCooper]

I find that quite astonishing!

What's astonishing, the fact that I don't live in Wokingham? My son who has worked on the railways for over 20 years, much of it trackside, is also extremely wary of level crossings.

 

[carriageline]

As I already said above, I have pictures of your Polegate ones on my camera phone somewhere.

Of what exactly buddy? As I would be interested to see anyway! When I said CCTV cameras, I meant cameras that look onto the crossing it self. They "eventually" will be used for crossing clear purposes if the OD equipment fails.

 

[Tomnick]

I get nervous driving over level crossings at the best of times, if I lived in Wokingham I'd find another route.

You might be pleased to learn that, although motorists can find themselves stuck over the crossing through no fault of their own, they're in no (or, at least, very little) danger from trains.

 

[Yabbadabba]

Of what exactly buddy? As I would be interested to see anyway! When I said CCTV cameras, I meant cameras that look onto the crossing it self. They "eventually" will be used for crossing clear purposes if the OD equipment fails.

Not looking forward to that, our panel is physically too big, that's why we had to have MCB-OD and not MCB-CCTV otherwise it would of failed the ergonomics work load risk assessment. Besides I much rather if the OD has failed and then use CCU with an attendant in place, then my work load doesn't increase.

 

[najaB]

You might be pleased to learn that, although motorists can find themselves stuck over the crossing through no fault of their own, they're in no (or, at least, very little) danger from trains.

That depends on the type of crossing.

 

[Antman]

What's astonishing, the fact that I don't live in Wokingham? My son who has worked on the railways for over 20 years, much of it trackside, is also extremely wary of level crossings.

Maybe I'm a bit naive then but I've never given driving over a level crossing a second thought!

 

[Tomnick]

That depends on the type of crossing.

Sorry - I should have made it clearer that my comments referred specifically to Wokingham, although they're equally applicable to any other full barrier crossing. It's no excuse for blocking crossings in any other circumstances - such as clearly visible queuing traffic! AHBs, of course, wouldn't be allowed where there's any significant risk of queuing traffic and certainly not somewhere as 'difficult' as Wokingham.

 

[ainsworth74]

Maybe I'm a bit naive then but I've never given driving over a level crossing a second thought!

Well I do check to see its clear before entering (there is one near where I live at which you can get caught out by queuing traffic) but I must admit I'm otherwise I don't exactly spend much time thinking about them.

 

[Tomnick]

It never ceases to amaze me when I see folk - quite a number of them, every day - stopping their cars and looking both ways before creeping gingerly over a level crossing. Most even foul at least one running line, sometimes both, whilst doing so. Why?!

Having checked that the road on the other side is clear, the best approach by far (obviously excepting the handful of open crossings where motorists do need to stop and check!) is to get on with it and cross as quickly as possible. Dithering about like that will only make it much more likely that you'll stall and end up sitting across the crossing, which is the worst thing you could do at an AHB.

 

[w0033944]

It never ceases to amaze me when I see folk - quite a number of them, every day - stopping their cars and looking both ways before creeping gingerly over a level crossing. Most even foul at least one running line, sometimes both, whilst doing so. Why?!

Having checked that the road on the other side is clear, the best approach by far (obviously excepting the handful of open crossings where motorists do need to stop and check!) is to get on with it and cross as quickly as possible. Dithering about like that will only make it much more likely that you'll stall and end up sitting across the crossing, which is the worst thing you could do at an AHB.

In the States, there's a view amongst railway people that automatic systems tend to fail, and they often encourage drivers to stop and visually check at automatic crossings (indeed, buses are legally required to do so):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vIEaCYjkik

 

[najaB]

In the States, there's a view amongst railway people that automatic systems tend to fail, and they often encourage drivers to stop and visually check at automatic crossings (indeed, buses are legally required to do so)...

There's no problem with "stop and check", but once you know it's clear cross as quickly as is safe. There's no benefit to hanging around on the crossing!

 

[w0033944]

There's no problem with "stop and check", but once you know it's clear cross as quickly as is safe. There's no benefit to hanging around on the crossing!

Indeed, but it isn't recommended at AHB installations here in the UK.

 

[LAX54]

I would guess the driver zig-zagged through thinking they could beat the barrier

CCTV and the trailing boom, so well jumped the lights !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ban what, crossing barriers ?



Wouldn't it be better to wait and see what the accident report says, rather than speculating and name calling ? If it only happened today, the report won't have already been published will it ?

On the plus side, at least it might be one less caravan for Clarkson to destroy.

Nothing to investigate, except as to why the Car Driver has a licence !

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In the States, there's a view amongst railway people that automatic systems tend to fail, and they often encourage drivers to stop and visually check at automatic crossings (indeed, buses are legally required to do so):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vIEaCYjkik

Yet I'd guess the United States has a far worse crossing safety record than the UK...

Speed of course isn't the only consideration. Bradford on Tone crossing, a few miles west of Taunton on the GWML, is one that needs to be approached with caution by motorists due to the uneven surface, as the track (passed regularly by HSTs) is heavily canted due to the curvature at this location.

 

[Alan White]

Another 'exception' here (Wokingham - link to Streetview). Although 'keep crossing clear' signs are provided (and it's reasonable to expect motorists not to start crossing if they can clearly see that they won't be able to get clear on the other side), vehicles approaching the camera in the linked photo might find that they then have to stop, foul of the crossing, to wait for a gap to enter the mini-roundabout. There's not much that they can do to avoid stopping there!

The roads around WKM have been reworked recently (since the StreetView photo was taken) and that busy junction should no longer have the traffic congestion on the crossing which it used to have. As a reasonably local resident, I've driven over it many times and I've always been amazed how many eastbound drivers just stopped at the give way lines for the roundabout without any apparent concern that they were then blocking the crossing. Details here.

 

[Tomnick]

The roads around WKM have been reworked recently (since the StreetView photo was taken) and that busy junction should no longer have the traffic congestion on the crossing which it used to have. As a reasonably local resident, I've driven over it many times and I've always been amazed how many eastbound drivers just stopped at the give way lines for the roundabout without any apparent concern that they were then blocking the crossing. Details here.

It's good to see that something is being done about it, but it seems a little unfair to criticise motorists for correctly stopping at the 'give way' lines - yes, they're obstructing the crossing, but it's perfectly safe at that location. Ploughing straight onto the junction, on the other hand, is rather likely to result in a collision!

 

[richw]

I have no experience of driving a caravan or other long vehicle but I suspect I'd err on the side of caution and phone the signaller before attempting to cross.

Don't crossings have detectors to check that the crossing is clear before closing the barriers? If not why not?

I do tow a caravan, I wouldn't enter a level crossing unless clear the other side for full length.
No need to phone the signaller unless you can't judge the length of your vehicle in which case should you be driving?