Car travel being cheaper than train travel?

[deltic]

Or even if you live in an urban area and like to visit the sticks.

Not if you do it rarely - hiring a car may be cheaper than owning one for such trips - depends how often you do them

 

[Dai Corner]

Not if you do it rarely - hiring a car may be cheaper than owning one for such trips - depends how often you do them

Can I book a hire car for delivery to my door when I wake up to a glorious day tomorrow and fancy a trip out?

 

[Ken H]

Depends on the availability of minicabs and hire cars - which can be cheaper than owning a car for the very low mileage user especially with home delivery of so many goods these days

Oh. driving a van 16 miles to deliver is better than me nipping to the local supermarket (That doesnt deliver)?

 

[Ken H]

Can I book a hire car for delivery to my door when I wake up to a glorious day tomorrow and fancy a trip out?

Yes. last time I hired a van had to drive 16 miles the wrong way to pick it up. Its easy in a city. Bloody difficult in the country.

 

[deltic]

Can I book a hire car for delivery to my door when I wake up to a glorious day tomorrow and fancy a trip out?

Yes in some cases you can depends where you live. Having your own car is of course convenient and some people are happy to pay a lot for that convenience but all I'm saying is that for many people who do very low mileages it may be more cost effective to ditch their own car and use alternatives to get around

 

[deltic]

Oh. driving a van 16 miles to deliver is better than me nipping to the local supermarket (That doesnt deliver)?

Better than what? The question is which is more cost effective for the car owner who does low mileage. If you live in a rural area and drive a lot then that is going to be the most cost effective. Its not a one size fit all issue.

 

[miklcct]

I will have a trip to North London between Mill Hill Broadway and Mill Hill East in the coming weekend for a race. My coach has confirmed to me that there won't be other people coming with me so sharing a car is not possible. My final destination is not close to either of the station (1.6 km walking distance from Mill Hill East, 2.1 km from Mill Hill Broadway) so a connection on the 221 bus will be needed if I use public transport all the whole way.

It is possible to book fixed-time train tickets under £26 return using a railcard at the time of writing (split advance tickets between Bournemouth to Clapham Junction, and change to an Oyster to the Overground and tube avoiding zone 1 on a route using the Overground and tube only), however as there is uncertainty on when I can leave, I will need a flexible train ticket at least on the return.

I depart from Bournemouth and Google Maps suggest me to take the 12:27 train, the first departure where a super-off-peak ticket will be valid, however, it will involve an unofficial connection at Waterloo from the train to the tube. If only official connections are used, I will need to take the 11:59 train. Although semi-flex tickets are available on that train, it comes with a restriction "SW Railway Only" which means it is not flexible enough for my return need (as it's sometimes possible to change at Basingstoke for a CrossCountry train to arrive home earlier than waiting for the next SWR train), that means I will need an off-peak return ticket anyway, but it is much more expensive.

At the end I decide to buy the super-off-peak return to London Waterloo, change to the tube using Oyster and risk an unofficial connection anyway for my time-critical outbound journey (and take a taxi from Finchley Central or Mill Hill East to catch up the time in case I do run late) as the price difference between off-peak and super-off-peak is too attractive. As a result my journey will cost me approximately £41 and takes about 6:20 in total.

If I have a car, the trip is 367 km and Google Maps suggests 4:30 in total both ways. Therefore the car still gives a little bit of time advantage compared to using the fastest possible unofficial train connections, but I'm not sure if it will be more or less stressful keeping my car on schedule on the motorway or keeping my unofficial train connection on schedule at Waterloo. Assuming fuel economy of 10 L / 100 km and 144.3p / L, the fuel cost alone is already £26 (more expensive than taking the super-off-peak train or even the off-peak train), therefore it will not be worthwhile to drive a car based on the cost alone. Therefore, a car is only useful to squeeze every minute out of my trip, leaving my home at the latest possible minute for the race and returning immediately when the race finishes.

Therefore, it is utterly ridiculous to say that car travel is cheaper than train travel, even for a time-critical or a totally-flexible journey, as long as it is off-peak. The main use of a car is to squeeze every minute out of the trip, which is only possible if the corresponding train journey is not direct as in my case, and I suspect for anyone living in urban areas, it will be worthwhile to buy a car compared to using public transport as long as possible and use taxis / hire cars to make up times as long as all train journeys are in off-peak.

 

[py_megapixel]

Therefore, it is utterly ridiculous to say that car travel is cheaper than train travel, even for a time-critical or a totally-flexible journey.

You realise there are literal billions of possible origin/destination combinations on the network, and that your post covers precisely two of them: Bournemouth to Mill Hill East, and Bournemouth to Mill Hill Broadway.

I don't think the sample size is large enough to draw a blanket conclusion that a statement is "utterly ridiculous" from.

 

[miklcct]

You realise there are literal billions of possible origin/destination combinations on the network, and that your post covers precisely two of them: Bournemouth to Mill Hill East, and Bournemouth to Mill Hill Broadway.

I don't think the sample size is large enough to draw a blanket conclusion that a statement is "utterly ridiculous" from.

This is just an example, but for most journeys between cities and large towns, especially on the same railway line, the statement is true. Off-peak train fares are generally competitive compared with car travel.

 

[Dai Corner]

This is just an example, but for most journeys between cities and large towns, especially on the same railway line, the statement is true. Off-peak train fares are generally competitive compared with car travel.

Most journeys aren't between railway stations so you need to add on the time and costs of getting to/from the station.

 

[Spamcan81]

Depends on my destination. If I'm off to spend a day on the end of a runway photographing fast jets at places such as Coningsby or Lakenheath then car wins hands down. If it's a day out in London or a trip out with mates for a few beers then it will be train every time.

 

[Bald Rick]

My final destination is not close to either of the station (1.6 km walking distance from Mill Hill East, 2.1 km from Mill Hill Broadway)

minor point, but 1.6km (1 mile) is comfortably walking distance, and will almost certainly be quicker than waiting fir the bus and then using it.

 

[miklcct]

minor point, but 1.6km (1 mile) is comfortably walking distance, and will almost certainly be quicker than waiting fir the bus and then using it.

I normally consider walking distance to be within 1 km, at 1.6 km I will prefer an express bus if one is available, or a bike if not. It takes me about 19 minutes to walk that distance, 8 minutes to run it, 5 minutes to cycle it, but on an express bus, it can be done in 3 minutes.

And this distance was precisely what caused me extreme stress in commuting a few years ago - my council home was located in a rural area, where there were no job opportunities and no direct express buses to the city (only a few services which operated as a stopping service for about 20 minutes before heading onto the motorway to city), 1.6 km from the railway station where an express feeder (free to connect to the railway) bus route (with only one vehicle operating) connects it in 3 minutes on a 30-minute interval, and the railway was the fastest and cheapest way to reach the city for commuting purpose. On my way home I must time my departure such that, after possibly multiple connections, I would arrive the destination train station within minutes before the free express feeder bus home. There were other free and paid routes which could arrive home but they were all circuitous, taking at least 9 minutes rather than 3 minutes on the direct route, on a scarce 15-minute headway as well. It would not be affordable to take a taxi frequently as it cost HK$20.5 (approximately £2) for each trip. It caused me extreme anxiety every day after work that I had to quit the job. I returned to the same job later when my family helped me to arrange housing in the city centre where multiple train lines and direct express buses operate.

1.6 km from the station is considered out of the railway catchment area, which is normally defined to be 500 m radius for planning purpose in Hong Kong, where a dedicated feeder service operates to destinations as close as 600 m from the station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

minor point, but 1.6km (1 mile) is comfortably walking distance, and will almost certainly be quicker than waiting fir the bus and then using it.

This rather depends on the person. It's walking distance for an average healthy adult or older child, but certainly not for someone elderly or infirm. It's also likely far enough to get you soaked if it's raining.

Perhaps, though, @miklcct's Asian experience is showing there, as because it's so hot and humid over there people usually wouldn't walk that distance as they'd arrive soaked with sweat, so they'd choose an air conditioned bus instead.