Cardiff Central - Match/Event days

[PHILIPE]

There will be a mass invasion of Cardiff on Saturday November 12th which has been referred to as "Super Saturday". Wales v Argentina (ko 1730) Autumn Rugby Union International at the Millenium Stadium and Wales v Serbia (ko 1945) World Cup Qualifier at the Cardiff City Stadium. The post-match arrangements and train capacity will be very interesting when details are released, especially when major building work is taking place in Central Square. ATW are still working on arrangements so watch this space. Should be interesting.

 

[jimm]

There will be a mass invasion of Cardiff on Saturday November 12th which has been referred to as "Super Saturday". Wales v Argentina (ko 1730) Autumn Rugby Union International at the Millenium Stadium and Wales v Serbia (ko 1945) World Cup Qualifier at the Cardiff City Stadium. The post-match arrangements and train capacity will be very interesting when details are released, especially when major building work is taking place in Central Square. ATW are still working on arrangements so watch this space. Should be interesting.

Should be noted though that the Welsh Rugby Union is now looking at a crowd of about 45,000 for the Argentina match in a stadium holding 74,500.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/enormous-difference-ticket-sales-wales-12111898

Add on a sell-out of 33,000 at the Cardiff City Stadium and you're really talking about shifting a Principality Stadium-ful of people across the evening of the 12th.

However, the following Saturday the Wales v Japan game (kick-off 2.30pm) is looking like a sell-out at the Principality Stadium and Cardiff City are at home (kick-off 3pm, so with a likely football gate of 15,000 to 16,000, there will be many more people wanting to travel around and in and out of Cardiff at about the same times of day on the 19th than the 12th - with likely added pressure on the railway as there are plenty more Japanese living in the UK - and visiting - than there are Argentinians.

ATW has a station queuing map for this Saturday's Australia game online here https://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk...s/Content/Millennium_Stadium/New Map 2016.pdf

 

[WelshBluebird]

Should be noted though that the Welsh Rugby Union is now looking at a crowd of about 45,000 for the Argentina match in a stadium holding 74,500.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/enormous-difference-ticket-sales-wales-12111898

Add on a sell-out of 33,000 at the Cardiff City Stadium and you're really talking about shifting a Principality Stadium-ful of people across the evening of the 12th.

However, the following Saturday the Wales v Japan game (kick-off 2.30pm) is looking like a sell-out at the Principality Stadium and Cardiff City are at home (kick-off 3pm, so with a likely football gate of 15,000 to 16,000, there will be many more people wanting to travel around and in and out of Cardiff at about the same times of day on the 19th than the 12th - with likely added pressure on the railway as there are plenty more Japanese living in the UK - and visiting - than there are Argentinians.

ATW has a station queuing map for this Saturday's Australia game online here https://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk...s/Content/Millennium_Stadium/New Map 2016.pdf

I didn't realise there was Rugby on the 19th too. That is a bit annoying. Guess I'll be having a few pints after the football then!

As for Central station, interesting that ATW have decided to allow Valley Lines passengers the use of the station this time around (as opposed to sending people over to Queen Street). Any idea if the same plan will be in use on the 19th?

 

[Michael.Y]

There will be a mass invasion of Cardiff on Saturday November 12th which has been referred to as "Super Saturday".

Stupid Saturday more like. A situation made unavoidable by UEFA's insistence on centrally scheduling their matches so that they can sell the TV rights.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Stupid Saturday more like. A situation made unavoidable by UEFA's insistence on centrally scheduling their matches so that they can sell the TV rights.

To be fair, the Rugby can be just as bad (Friday night games that finish late, leaving hardly any trains for people to go home on for example). It isn't just a football issue, even if UEFA are being damn stupid with the scheduling.

 

[Michael.Y]

To be fair, the Rugby can be just as bad (Friday night games that finish late, leaving hardly any trains for people to go home on for example). It isn't just a football issue, even if UEFA are being damn stupid with the scheduling.

In this case it is. Friday night matches in the 6N are an atrocious, unnecessary stupid idea, but they've never clashed with anything. Knowingly and deliberately staging a game with scant to zero consideration for other large-scale events in a small city with a sports-mad populace is lunacy. FWIW I have a ticket for the wendyball, so will be watching the eggchasing in a pub, hopefully, before getting in a pre-booked taxi and scooting the hell out of dodge. Absolutely no way am I braving Cardiff Central that night.

 

[PHILIPE]

There are a few cancellations on the Cardiff Valleys tomorrow evening after the match due shortage of conductors.

 

[Envoy]

There are a few cancellations on the Cardiff Valleys tomorrow evening after the match due shortage of conductors.

Why don’t they have a ‘pool’ of trained standby people that they can call in to be conductors? You would not expect to send your kids off to school to find that they had no supply teachers to replace the permanent staff who happen to be away - though, no doubt, this can happen.

It can’t be an easy job dealing with all these fans late in the evening.

 

[PHILIPE]

Why don’t they have a ‘pool’ of trained standby people that they can call in to be conductors? You would not expect to send your kids off to school to find that they had no supply teachers to replace the permanent staff who happen to be away - though, no doubt, this can happen.

It can’t be an easy job dealing with all these fans late in the evening.

Who would be the people in the pool and, if so, who would do their job ? Just not possible.
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ATW have pulled out all the stops and leased in 150206 and 150269 from ATN and they are shuttling between Llandudno and Chester. The position is helped by Engineering Work causing bustitution between Chester and Manchester(diversions via Northwich on Sunday only) and freeing up 175s to help out for the Rugby.

 

[Envoy]

Who would be the people in the pool and, if so, who would do their job ? Just not possible.

You could perhaps call in the more recently retired conductors. Another solution would be to train up people who do not want a full time job but would be willing to go into a pool of labour that could be drawn on as and when. These could for example, be retired police officers - who do not generally keep working until they are 65. That is just one example but I am sure that such people do exist within the population. If they advertised for such people, I wonder what the response would be?

 

[craigybagel]

You could perhaps call in the more recently retired conductors. Another solution would be to train up people who do not want a full time job but would be willing to go into a pool of labour that could be drawn on as and when. These could for example, be retired police officers - who do not generally keep working until they are 65. That is just one example but I am sure that such people do exist within the population. If they advertised for such people, I wonder what the response would be?

Go through 3 months training (at least) to only be a casual employee? Good luck selling that! Both to potential applicants and the union. And that's before we get onto all the paperwork and continuous assessment that goes into ensuring conductors stay competent.

 

[Michael.Y]

Why don’t they have a ‘pool’ of trained standby people that they can call in to be conductors?

They do. They're called conductors. They can't be forced to do RDW, nor can they be forced to do special turns outside of their booked hours.

 

[philthetube]

If the police thought that having both events on would cause serious issuer then they could order one to be moved, there are many places where home football games are not allowed to take place at the same time, even some you would not expect such as Burnley, Blackburn which are 7 miles apart.

If they did that the Soccer, Rugby authorities would just have to lump it.

 

[PHILIPE]

If the police thought that having both events on would cause serious issuer then they could order one to be moved, there are many places where home football games are not allowed to take place at the same time, even some you would not expect such as Burnley, Blackburn which are 7 miles apart.

If they did that the Soccer, Rugby authorities would just have to lump it.

The police have no power to move the events which are arranged by the International Sports bodies who, again, are governed by the TV Companies in regard rights to broadcast.

 

[221129]

The police have no power to move the events which are arranged by the International Sports bodies who, again, are governed by the TV Companies in regard rights to broadcast.

I think you'll find they do...

 

[PHILIPE]

I think you'll find they do...

They never enforce it though

 

[philthetube]

If the police say that they are unable to safely police an event they can insist it is cancelled, 2 major events on at the same time would be a reasonable reason to be unable to police both safely.

 

[bramling]

You could perhaps call in the more recently retired conductors.

How do you prove they remain fully competent and familiar to carry out the role (bearing in mind there may well be things which have changed since they retired)? Also there would need to be some form of process to ensure they meet the medical standards required. It can take enough time getting normal employees back on the trains when they've been off sick or otherwise away from the trains for a while.

Meanwhile, where I am at least, most people retire from the railway with the attitude of "had enough, can't take any more", and many never want to see a train again. That's not to say people couldn't be enticed back, but the financial reward would have to be attractive.

At the end of the day, it's quite possible to have people sitting around on standby. Most locations already have this in the form of rostered spare staff. Somewhere along the line someone has to make a decision on what level of spare cover the business is prepared to pay for. Sooner or later, when budgets come under pressure, questions will be asked when staff are visibly seen to be sitting around, not needed most of the time.

The industry's normal response is to offer overtime when extra staff are needed for one reason or another, but the difficulty with relying on that is that overtime is generally voluntary, and it tends to dry up at times when needed most. Speaking from experience, it can be very hard to get people in at times when people want to be with the family (e.g. weekends, school holidays, Easter, Christmas, etc), or for unpopular shifts. Try getting someone to do overtime to assist with an event like the Notting Hill Carnival, for example!

 

[DarloRich]

There will be a mass invasion of Cardiff on Saturday November 12th which has been referred to as "Super Saturday". Wales v Argentina (ko 1730) Autumn Rugby Union International at the Millenium Stadium and Wales v Serbia (ko 1945) World Cup Qualifier at the Cardiff City Stadium. The post-match arrangements and train capacity will be very interesting when details are released, especially when major building work is taking place in Central Square. ATW are still working on arrangements so watch this space. Should be interesting.

oooooooooooooooh that should be fun. not. Decent over time all round.

The police have no power to move the events which are arranged by the International Sports bodies who, again, are governed by the TV Companies in regard rights to broadcast.

I think they do..........

 

[PHILIPE]

There will be a mass invasion of Cardiff on Saturday November 12th which has been referred to as "Super Saturday". Wales v Argentina (ko 1730) Autumn Rugby Union International at the Millenium Stadium and Wales v Serbia (ko 1945) World Cup Qualifier at the Cardiff City Stadium. The post-match arrangements and train capacity will be very interesting when details are released, especially when major building work is taking place in Central Square. ATW are still working on arrangements so watch this space. Should be interesting.

Arrangements here from ATW Website:-

[Travel advice for “Super Saturday” 12 November 2016

Wales v Argentina K/O 5:30pm Principality Stadium

Wales v Serbia K/O 7:45pm Cardiff City Stadium

Train services in the Cardiff area will be busy all day. All available trains will be out on the network. However extra capacity and services will be limited especially on the Marches, North Wales and Ebbw Vale lines after 20:15.

If you are travelling into Cardiff for the matches, please take the earliest train service possible to arrive in ample time for kick off.

A post-match queuing system will be in place at Cardiff Central where customers may be expected to queue up to 2 hours. Please return directly to the station after the game.

Cardiff Queen St station will be closed from 18:45.

Football fans travelling to the match at Cardiff City Stadium are advised to use Cardiff Central or Grangetown station. After the match, Grangetown station will be for fans using the Penarth, Barry and Vale of Glamorgan services only. For Valleys and main line services, fans are to use Cardiff Central station. Crowd Management will be in place at Grangetown station.

There will be extra British Transport Police presence on the network – to report any incidents text 61016.

More information including the Cardiff Central post-match queue map (which is slightly different to usual) www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/events ]
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Police report having to deal with people trying to jump the barriers post Rugby match tonight 12th.

 

[PHILIPE]

This Saturday 26th after Wales v South Africa, Queen St will be open and a queuing system in place for passengers returning to the Cardiff Valleys but unlike the last occasion, Barry Island, Penarth and VOG passengers will use Queen St also
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ATW Twitter reports that the use of Queen St is being trialled prior to the final of the Champions League next year. People complaining on Twitter that platforms are being changed at short notice without any information being fed to them. Auto anouncements saying Platform 5 but trains turning up on Platform 4 which is apparently being used for all services northbound to Valleys.

 

[aleph_0]

ATW Twitter reports that the use of Queen St is being trialled prior to the final of the Champions League next year. People complaining on Twitter that platforms are being changed at short notice without any information being fed to them. Auto anouncements saying Platform 5 but trains turning up on Platform 4 which is apparently being used for all services northbound to Valleys.

Looks like they should probably have turned auto-announcements off, or updated the system. It would be good if they could change the screens to say "Trains towards x, y, and z" would be a good idea if possible).

I'd guess things ran to plan, and trains were signaled the planned way - from Real Train Times, all Penarth/Barry/VoG services were shifted to 2, 3 was for Cardiff Central terminators, 4 Taff valley, 5 Rhymney valley (which matches the queues, and also has only 1 platform face in heavy use on each island). So it should just be the case of pre-filling platforms based on destination. A bit worrying if people are then given mixed messages about changing platforms.

It sounds like the platform plan should also have been communicated in advance. People are used to 5 being the regular northbound platform for everything, and if the CIS hasn't been reprogrammed, that's going to cause double confusion (incidentally, do you know when this changed, when they opened 4 had Rhymney, 5 had Taff I think).

In the long-term, I think Queen Street should be a good option. You've got on-platform separation of the different destinations, 2 platforms gives more boarding time flexibility/less knock-on delay risk.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW will be reviewing the arrangements and how they worked out last night in order to sort out the problems before the Champions League Final. In other words to quote the famous words - "Lessons have been learnt".

 

[PHILIPE]

Waiting for June 3rd when the Champions League final is due to be played at the Principality Stadium with up to 200,000 visitors expected in Cardiff. No train arrangements known yet but BBC Wales News on TV stated 24 extra trains to Paddington alone. We'll just have to wait and see at this stage before we can really discuss arrangements.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Waiting for June 3rd when the Champions League final is due to be played at the Principality Stadium with up to 200,000 visitors expected in Cardiff. No train arrangements known yet but BBC Wales News on TV stated 24 extra trains to Paddington alone. We'll just have to wait and see at this stage before we can really discuss arrangements.

Much will depend on which exact teams play. If both teams are from the same country or if one of them is English (stop laughing!) it can make a big difference to the arrangements given that many will arrive by air and I doubt Cardiff-Wales Airport will be taking that many flights.

 

[Statto]

Waiting for June 3rd when the Champions League final is due to be played at the Principality Stadium with up to 200,000 visitors expected in Cardiff. No train arrangements known yet but BBC Wales News on TV stated 24 extra trains to Paddington alone. We'll just have to wait and see at this stage before we can really discuss arrangements.

Could be a long night if it goes to Extra Time & Penalties & on a Saturday night as well.

 

[craigybagel]

Waiting for June 3rd when the Champions League final is due to be played at the Principality Stadium with up to 200,000 visitors expected in Cardiff. No train arrangements known yet but BBC Wales News on TV stated 24 extra trains to Paddington alone. We'll just have to wait and see at this stage before we can really discuss arrangements.

Rest assured a LOT of planning is going on behind the scenes at the moment

 

[PHILIPE]

Much will depend on which exact teams play. If both teams are from the same country or if one of them is English (stop laughing!) it can make a big difference to the arrangements given that many will arrive by air and I doubt Cardiff-Wales Airport will be taking that many flights.

The brief report on TV stated that there would be many extra flights in and out of the Airport.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The brief report on TV stated that there would be many extra flights in and out of the Airport.

No doubt there will but nothing like the number required to cope with all the fans. When Old Trafford hosted the final between Juventus and Milan Manchester Airport was, for several hours, the busiest airport in Europe. The large number of aircraft needing to park up led to the second runway becoming a parking apron for the duration. In short the scale of the operation is considerable and Cardiff-Wales Airport simply does not have the infrastructure needed to deal the numbers. I would expect many flights will also go to Bristol and perhaps even Birmingham. The real eye-opener would be if RAF Brize Norton is also used!

 

[EbbwJunction1]

The brief report on TV stated that there would be many extra flights in and out of the Airport.

No doubt there will but nothing like the number required to cope with all the fans. When Old Trafford hosted the final between Juventus and Milan Manchester Airport was, for several hours, the busiest airport in Europe. The large number of aircraft needing to park up led to the second runway becoming a parking apron for the duration. In short the scale of the operation is considerable and Cardiff-Wales Airport simply does not have the infrastructure needed to deal the numbers. I would expect many flights will also go to Bristol and perhaps even Birmingham. The real eye-opener would be if RAF Brize Norton is also used!

There's always RAF St Athan, which is very nearby, although I don't know whether that can take commercial flights.