Carlisle, Preston & South to Birmingham

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route:oxford

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Is there scope for improving service frequencies between the WCML North Western towns and cities and Birmingham?

There have been many occasions when I've considered grabbing a Euston or Manchester service from Glasgow or a Manchester service from Edinburgh and checked out the opportunties for a connection in England - only to find that there isn't one.

A similar thing often happens to me at Birmingham heading North

Generally speaking, it's better just to hang around Edinburgh or Glasgow to catch the next fast Birmingham (or vice versa) rather than make any attempt to keep moving.

An additional service wouldn't even need to serve New Street, Snow Hill or Moor Street would be just as satisfactory.
 
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tbtc

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Its an hourly service from Birmingham to Scotland via Preston, which is the best service that there's ever been (I can't recall the Manchester - Preston - Scotland or the London - Preston - Scotland service having been better in the past either?).

The problem is that the trains serve either Edinburgh *or* Glasgow, which means that with a bi-hourly frequency if you miss a Birmingham service in Edinburgh you'd struggle to get over to Glasgow in time for the next one (assuming you had a valid ticket of course!).

I've suggested stops at Carstairs as a way of giving more connections (since the XC service to Glasgow Central could connect with WCML services to Preston etc).
 

Wath Yard

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The service from Scotland - NW England is, to be frank, ridiculous. Up to 3 tph with gaps of 12 mins, 5 mins and 43 mins northbound. 3 tph with a gap of nearly 3/4 hour! No thought has been put into it whatsoever, and presumably they just 'fit in' with other services around New Street and on the southern end of the WCML. Southbound isn't actually that bad.
 

Nym

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Remember one has to fit Freight over Shap Summit too, so it's not THAT easy to fit the services in, 20min gaps will mean everything catching up with the freight very quickly.
 

sprinterguy

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An additional service wouldn't even need to serve New Street, Snow Hill or Moor Street would be just as satisfactory.
It would be impossible for WCML services from the north to access Snow Hill or Moor Street though (without some sort of awkward reversal at an inconvenient location).

I think that the hourly Birmingham to Scotland service frequency is very good. The best opportunity for increasing journey opportunities on that corridor IMO would be LMs' proposal for an hourly Preston service, which would have allowed a connection into the TPE Scotland-Manchester services, which haS very unfortunately recently been turned down.
 

tbtc

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Also, it may be that capacity (e.g. Pedcolinos instead of Voyagers on the Birmingham services, longer Pendolinos on the London services, 350s instead of 185s on the Manchester services) will be the way forward rather than trying to squeeze more fast trains between the freight north of Preston.
 

Nym

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Also, it may be that capacity (e.g. Pedcolinos instead of Voyagers on the Birmingham services, longer Pendolinos on the London services, 350s instead of 185s on the Manchester services) will be the way forward rather than trying to squeeze more fast trains between the freight north of Preston.

Would you free these up by the use of eVoyagers or standard voyagers on some of the runs through Birmingham by extending the Woves service, or a different service to Shrewsbry? Or running some stuff through Manchester onto Blackburn or Bradford via Rochdale?
 

route:oxford

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It would be impossible for WCML services from the north to access Snow Hill or Moor Street though (without some sort of awkward reversal at an inconvenient location).

For the purposes of pathing around the Birmingham area, would there be any benefit in being able to enter Snow Hill/Moor Street from the northern WCML?

I think that the hourly Birmingham to Scotland service frequency is very good. The best opportunity for increasing journey opportunities on that corridor IMO would be LMs' proposal for an hourly Preston service, which would have allowed a connection into the TPE Scotland-Manchester services, which haS very unfortunately recently been turned down.

Seems like an opportunity lost.
 
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