Hi all,
I have been returning from my work this Wednesday. I am using carnet regularly on my journey. Sometimes I buy new carnet before using the old one (e.g. when you leave tickets in the office or forget at home, just buy a new one or just buy then before i run out of them because there is no queue in the ticket office).
One of the ticket sets stayed on my table for 3 weeks. And I have made few “pen tests” on it (doodles on the ticket that were done to test the pen, noting like numbers or dates). Normally I clean them from my pockets every few days) and I throw away all the tickets (seasons and carnets)
Despite ticket to be a little bit written I decided to use the ticket on Wednesday as to me it was still valid (it hasn’t been used before, there was no date, the date was not altered…). From that point of view, I would not break the bylaw of the railways because it clearly says that my intention would have to be to mislead the company (stuff) as it is written in the rail bylaw.
However, the inspector on the gates (on the entrance; not the exit) stopped me and said that I have altered the ticket, which I denied. He asked me how many times I commute an I have honestly answered 4-5 times a week. He said that in that case the ticket shouldn’t be old a little more than 3 weeks. I honestly said that I have used another carnet set in the meantime (and when I was checking my account balance latter I have also bought the weekly ticket during that period). The problem is that I have bought the other carnet tickets with cash, use all tickets and after that I picked up ticket from my desk. I have however paid my weekly season ticket by card. The was, after the expiration thrown away. In general, I pay sometimes cash, sometimes card; depending if I have cash in my pocket and depending if I pay on the machine or at the counter.
The inspector also took the ticket from day before (which I did not throw away at that time). I have offered him as that was the only proof that I use fresh carnet ticket every day.
The inspector also used the machine and he said, that the machine is saying that the ticket has been used before, but in fact the machine did not show anything. I was next to him when he was using that and the machine screen stayed as it was from the machine switch on. No led blink or other signal was given. So my guess was that the inspector was just boo****ting that it was used before. That was a shock for me. I just asked myself why the hell is he doing (but said nothing to him). He also claimed that via card payments it can be checked (wtf? If they are recording the payment cards connecting to the tickets on either self serve machines or terminals in sales offices, they are breaching EMV card standards). Why on the world would inspector “threaten” to the passenger in this way?
He took my details, wrote down that I commute 4-5 times a week and the other things on the reports were just ticking the boxes (which I didn’t check but I should…) as I was not aware what this procedure is and what my rights and duties are
Later on I was thinking what else I can be accused off.
And then I read the terms of usage online where they say that the date shall be marked 07/03/18 (and mine was 7/3/18). This is not written on the slip that you get with carnet tickets where the summary of T&C is written, and I have never been punished for that despite having a bunch of checks. Since it happened on the entrance and if the prosecution comes back with that claim; wouldn’t it be more reasonable to ask me to add 0 in front of the date? And then I have thought that by providing the ticket that I used the day before I basically incriminated myself because on that ticket the date was written 6 and not 06 and they could claim that the ticket was invalid because of that for the day before. Can they do that? However they cannot claim that it was either altered or already used.
Explanation of my “carnet” economy is:
I am commuting for my work Finsbury park to Hatfield on a daily basis (that means 4-5 times a week). Sometimes I work from home, sometimes I have a day off.
I am using carnet a lot because:
-it is cheaper to buy carnet off-peak then to buy weekly ticket; it is not worth buying monthly ticket, if you know that you will be off few days (now it is Easter)
-there is no risk that the carnet ticket will get unused (e.g. once I got sick for more than a week after using the weekly ticket only for a day!)
-sometimes I travel only one way (e.g. I go to the airport by bus in the evening, have a teambuilding session where my colleague takes me from closer to London to the reach of tfl etc…). this kind of situations happens on average app 2 times a month; enough for me to buy only one-way carnet set every 2 months.
-sometimes I go (in the evening) to Kings Cross or Moorgate, Highburry and islington, Old Street if I have something in the city center in the evening (e.g meeting with my girlfreind); in that case carnet tickets have another advantage – they are valid to all London terminals on the route from Hatfield, so I save for the TFL fare. Even if I use the underground from Kings cross it still makes sense because I don’t have to run out of train to validate the oyster and then jump back to train.
However if I am planning to commute peak times at least once a week I usually buy the weekly ticket. If I know there is a high chance to commuting the entire month (no, Christmas, no Easter, no job interviews, no holidays, no working from home etc..) then I buy monthly ticket.
I am asking you for advice? Shall I send an email to the Great northern asking them to forensically check the ticket and tell them on which day do they think it was used before even they come back to me? For me the most shocking thing was the inspector claiming the ticket has been used despite the machine showing him nothing (because he did not pull the machine deep enough that the magstripe could be read).
On the slip that I have received from the inspector there is written “if fail to carry, passenger to send a copy of their season ticket or railcard within 14 days to the address below. Failure to do so my lead to prosecution. Does it mean that I have to respond to the great northern in 14 day from Wensday?
Thank you for all the advices.
I have been returning from my work this Wednesday. I am using carnet regularly on my journey. Sometimes I buy new carnet before using the old one (e.g. when you leave tickets in the office or forget at home, just buy a new one or just buy then before i run out of them because there is no queue in the ticket office).
One of the ticket sets stayed on my table for 3 weeks. And I have made few “pen tests” on it (doodles on the ticket that were done to test the pen, noting like numbers or dates). Normally I clean them from my pockets every few days) and I throw away all the tickets (seasons and carnets)
Despite ticket to be a little bit written I decided to use the ticket on Wednesday as to me it was still valid (it hasn’t been used before, there was no date, the date was not altered…). From that point of view, I would not break the bylaw of the railways because it clearly says that my intention would have to be to mislead the company (stuff) as it is written in the rail bylaw.
However, the inspector on the gates (on the entrance; not the exit) stopped me and said that I have altered the ticket, which I denied. He asked me how many times I commute an I have honestly answered 4-5 times a week. He said that in that case the ticket shouldn’t be old a little more than 3 weeks. I honestly said that I have used another carnet set in the meantime (and when I was checking my account balance latter I have also bought the weekly ticket during that period). The problem is that I have bought the other carnet tickets with cash, use all tickets and after that I picked up ticket from my desk. I have however paid my weekly season ticket by card. The was, after the expiration thrown away. In general, I pay sometimes cash, sometimes card; depending if I have cash in my pocket and depending if I pay on the machine or at the counter.
The inspector also took the ticket from day before (which I did not throw away at that time). I have offered him as that was the only proof that I use fresh carnet ticket every day.
The inspector also used the machine and he said, that the machine is saying that the ticket has been used before, but in fact the machine did not show anything. I was next to him when he was using that and the machine screen stayed as it was from the machine switch on. No led blink or other signal was given. So my guess was that the inspector was just boo****ting that it was used before. That was a shock for me. I just asked myself why the hell is he doing (but said nothing to him). He also claimed that via card payments it can be checked (wtf? If they are recording the payment cards connecting to the tickets on either self serve machines or terminals in sales offices, they are breaching EMV card standards). Why on the world would inspector “threaten” to the passenger in this way?
He took my details, wrote down that I commute 4-5 times a week and the other things on the reports were just ticking the boxes (which I didn’t check but I should…) as I was not aware what this procedure is and what my rights and duties are
Later on I was thinking what else I can be accused off.
And then I read the terms of usage online where they say that the date shall be marked 07/03/18 (and mine was 7/3/18). This is not written on the slip that you get with carnet tickets where the summary of T&C is written, and I have never been punished for that despite having a bunch of checks. Since it happened on the entrance and if the prosecution comes back with that claim; wouldn’t it be more reasonable to ask me to add 0 in front of the date? And then I have thought that by providing the ticket that I used the day before I basically incriminated myself because on that ticket the date was written 6 and not 06 and they could claim that the ticket was invalid because of that for the day before. Can they do that? However they cannot claim that it was either altered or already used.
Explanation of my “carnet” economy is:
I am commuting for my work Finsbury park to Hatfield on a daily basis (that means 4-5 times a week). Sometimes I work from home, sometimes I have a day off.
I am using carnet a lot because:
-it is cheaper to buy carnet off-peak then to buy weekly ticket; it is not worth buying monthly ticket, if you know that you will be off few days (now it is Easter)
-there is no risk that the carnet ticket will get unused (e.g. once I got sick for more than a week after using the weekly ticket only for a day!)
-sometimes I travel only one way (e.g. I go to the airport by bus in the evening, have a teambuilding session where my colleague takes me from closer to London to the reach of tfl etc…). this kind of situations happens on average app 2 times a month; enough for me to buy only one-way carnet set every 2 months.
-sometimes I go (in the evening) to Kings Cross or Moorgate, Highburry and islington, Old Street if I have something in the city center in the evening (e.g meeting with my girlfreind); in that case carnet tickets have another advantage – they are valid to all London terminals on the route from Hatfield, so I save for the TFL fare. Even if I use the underground from Kings cross it still makes sense because I don’t have to run out of train to validate the oyster and then jump back to train.
However if I am planning to commute peak times at least once a week I usually buy the weekly ticket. If I know there is a high chance to commuting the entire month (no, Christmas, no Easter, no job interviews, no holidays, no working from home etc..) then I buy monthly ticket.
I am asking you for advice? Shall I send an email to the Great northern asking them to forensically check the ticket and tell them on which day do they think it was used before even they come back to me? For me the most shocking thing was the inspector claiming the ticket has been used despite the machine showing him nothing (because he did not pull the machine deep enough that the magstripe could be read).
On the slip that I have received from the inspector there is written “if fail to carry, passenger to send a copy of their season ticket or railcard within 14 days to the address below. Failure to do so my lead to prosecution. Does it mean that I have to respond to the great northern in 14 day from Wensday?
Thank you for all the advices.
