Cascade of DMUs to CURRENT TPE franchise

[jimm]

Whilst Wilmslow has two suburban lines into Manchester, one via Stockport and the other via Manchester Airport, these are operated by Northern Rail with Class 323 units that have NO first class accommodation. The ATW service from Wilmslow into Manchester with its Class 175 units also has NO first class accommodation.

I was referring to the lack of time George actually spends in his beloved Northern Powerhouse - with an official car and driver to get him around it much of the time as well, I shouldn't wonder, so no need to darken the door of any standard class-only local trains - and a certain incident with his ticketing arrangements on a Virgin service back to London, which several other posters seem to have realised...
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I not kidding as Hitachi have built A-trains with tilting for the Taiwan Railway Administration. The class 800/AT300 trains are are part of the Hitachi A-Trains family so on that basis, it would be easy for them to add tilt to the trains.

Yes, Hitachi have the ability and technology to build tilt trains, as I pointed out in the other TPE thread, however, you would still need to design and build a bespoke body shell for tilt within UK gauge restrictions, rather than just add tilt to an AT300.
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Voyagers on Trans Pennine services would probably be a bit of a disaster. Their door layout on busy services would extend station dwell times, and adversely affect punctuality.

A complete disaster, actually.

Never mind the doors, there is also the pathetic seating capacity of 22x-type trains, which I kept pointing out whenever people said what a wonderful idea using 222s to the West Country would be. Even with fewer first class seats, a five-car 22x would offer precious little more capacity than a 240-seat four-car 185, had such a thing ever been created. And going forward more capacity on everything that runs on TPE is what will be needed, even with higher frequencies.

 

[Haydn1971]

Never mind the doors, there is also the pathetic seating capacity of 22x-type trains, which I kept pointing out whenever people said what a wonderful idea using 222s to the West Country would be. Even with fewer first class seats, a five-car 22x would offer precious little more capacity than a 240-seat four-car 185, had such a thing ever been created. And going forward more capacity on everything that runs on TPE is what will be needed, even with higher frequencies.

It's not just the doors that make loading difficult, I've noted that you often get people sitting/standing in the doorway, who seem ambivalent to the needs of people wanting to get off the train, there's people with baggage in racks who aren't prepared in time and then there's the "oh is this my stop" mob who slow passengers getting on and the seat reservation checkers - the wider doors of a mid-door train help soak up these small factors that combined help delay the process of loading and unloading - the mid-door units also provide a good standing space for people travelling a single stop, so don't need to get into the faff of finding a seat inside the carriage.

Yes, end door units would be a nightmare, yet we still have them on busy commuter routes such as the Liverpool-Norwich, Leeds-Nottingham and perhaps controversial, CrossCountry core sections.

 

[Stats]

Why has this thread descended in to talking about Voyagers and tilt enabled AT300S? This thread is about what DMUs the CURRENT franchise could take to replace the Chiltern bou d 170s next year. THere will be no Voyagers available during the course of the current TPE franchise and they won't be building any tilt enable AT300s before April. If you want to discuss future stock there is already a thread that for that.

 

[RobShipway]

The A-train moniker covers the current design features and manufacturing techniques. The AT100/200/300, IEP and others are all A-trains.

Hitachi A train
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Less than half of the FGW HSTs go to Scotrail. If MML retain their current sets, there would still be enough HSTs for XC to entirely replace their Voyagers with HSTs, should they so desire (not that they will, but mathematically they could.) Remember that the only operators using HSTs by the end of the decade will be Scotrail, and possibly XC and MML (plus Network Rail.) All the others will be replacing their sets.

Having XC replace Voyagers with 35 - 40 year HST's would be as much as disaster I think as providing TPE with the Voyagers, but these trains have to be going somewhere?

 

[Greenback]

Why has this thread descended in to talking about Voyagers and tilt enabled AT300S? This thread is about what DMUs the CURRENT franchise could take to replace the Chiltern bou d 170s next year. THere will be no Voyagers available during the course of the current TPE franchise and they won't be building any tilt enable AT300s before April. If you want to discuss future stock there is already a thread that for that.

That's a good question, but when a thread is all about a cascade of DMU's, it seems inevitable that the discussion will turn to all sorts of possibilities.

I have moved all the discussion about MP's, their salaries and travelling expenses to a new thread, and I am going to close this one. As you say there are other threads where these type of debates can take place.