Castleford - Glasshoughton £2.80/£3.40 return (4 mile round trip) vs. Woodlesford - Glasshoughton £2.80/£3.40 return (17 mile round trip)

[johntea]

I fancied something to eat after doing some Christmas shopping on Christmas Eve so decided to head to XScape as it has slightly more choice than a Greggs or dirty kebab!

My jaw slightly dropped when I saw the rail fare was a whopping £3.40 return for a trip of roughly 2 miles each way! (slightly cheaper at £2.80 had it not being smack bang in the middle of Northern and their stupid evening peak...erm what evening peak at the moment!...but still)

I then found if I lived in Woodlesford which is roughly 8.5 miles each way I could make the journey...for the exact same price!

For £3.70 Arriva will happily sell me a day bus ticket for unlimited travel around the entire Castleford / Pontefract / Knottingley area too...

Maybe I'm just being a scrooge for Christmas but come on Northern!

 

[Dai Corner]

I think you'll find the rail fares are set by West Yorkshire Combined Authority rather than Northern.

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Flow Origin​	8578 WOODLESFORD​
Flow Destination​	8360 GLASSHOUGHTON​

Route​	01000 .​
Cross-London​	NO​
Fare Setter​	PWY WEST YORKSHIRE PTE​

STANDARD CLASS​
FL1 Flexi Season​	​	◊​	STD SEASON​	ADULT: £23.80​	​
7DS SEVEN DAY STD​	​	◊​	STD SEASON​	ADULT: £10.60​	CHILD: £5.30​
SDR ANYTIME DAY R​	​	◊​	STD RETURN​	ADULT: £3.40​	CHILD: £1.70​
CDR OFF-PEAK DAY R​	ND​	◊​	STD RETURN​	ADULT: £2.80​	CHILD: £1.40​
SDS ANYTIME DAY S​	​	◊​	STD SINGLE​	ADULT: £2.70​	CHILD: £1.35​

 

[robbeech]

Fares are generally set in groups or clusters. You usually find these things on longer distance journeys where a journey with a connection or two is the same price as the intercity travel. But, you can’t find it locally aswell. As Dai says it’s not Northern that set these prices.

You could bring this up with the fare setter. I suspect the result would either be a fobbing off letter or an increase to the price from Woodlesford which might not make you too popular. There’s a chance this has already been seen.

 

[skyhigh]

Lots of odd fares in the Knottingley area. Look at the price of a Knottingley to Leeds ticket. Then look at the price of Pontefract to Leeds, and Wakefield to Leeds...

 

[Llandudno]

I fancied something to eat after doing some Christmas shopping on Christmas Eve so decided to head to XScape as it has slightly more choice than a Greggs or dirty kebab!

My jaw slightly dropped when I saw the rail fare was a whopping £3.40 return for a trip of roughly 2 miles each way! (slightly cheaper at £2.80 had it not being smack bang in the middle of Northern and their stupid evening peak...erm what evening peak at the moment!...but still)

I then found if I lived in Woodlesford which is roughly 8.5 miles each way I could make the journey...for the exact same price!

For £3.70 Arriva will happily sell me a day bus ticket for unlimited travel around the entire Castleford / Pontefract / Knottingley area too...

Maybe I'm just being a scrooge for Christmas but come on Northern!

Crikey £3.40 for a peak return and £2.80 off peak return seems pretty good to me!

You want to try using Arriva Buses Wales, Deganwy to Llandudno £3 single, £5.70 return (day saver) for barely a two mile trip!

 

[Haywain]

Crikey £3.40 for a peak return and £2.80 off peak return seems pretty good to me!

You want to try using Arriva Buses Wales, Deganwy to Llandudno £3 single, £5.70 return (day saver) for barely a two mile trip!

Or 'local' fares in Central London on the underground!

 

[ChrisC]

I fancied something to eat after doing some Christmas shopping on Christmas Eve so decided to head to XScape as it has slightly more choice than a Greggs or dirty kebab!

My jaw slightly dropped when I saw the rail fare was a whopping £3.40 return for a trip of roughly 2 miles each way! (slightly cheaper at £2.80 had it not being smack bang in the middle of Northern and their stupid evening peak...erm what evening peak at the moment!...but still)

I then found if I lived in Woodlesford which is roughly 8.5 miles each way I could make the journey...for the exact same price!

For £3.70 Arriva will happily sell me a day bus ticket for unlimited travel around the entire Castleford / Pontefract / Knottingley area too...

Maybe I'm just being a scrooge for Christmas but come on Northern!

I also was surprised how low this fare is for a train journey of around 2 miles. Try using buses outside of large cities in a shire county. For the journey from my village to the nearest town just over 2 miles away it is £3.10 single. It’s the same price to the shops in the opposite direction in the next village also around 2 miles away. That’s why I use my car as £6.20 return just to travel to a shop 2 miles away is rather excessive.

 

[island]

You want to try using Arriva Buses Wales, Deganwy to Llandudno £3 single, £5.70 return (day saver) for barely a two mile trip!

Train's only £2.60 return

 

[Llandudno]

I also was surprised how low this fare is for a train journey of around 2 miles. Try using buses outside of large cities in a shire county. For the journey from my village to the nearest town just over 2 miles away it is £3.10 single. It’s the same price to the shops in the opposite direction in the next village also around 2 miles away. That’s why I use my car as £6.20 return just to travel to a shop 2 miles away is rather excessive.

Train's only £2.60 return

It is that’s why I use the train instead of the bus!

Besides it is a shorter walk to Deganwy Station than the bus stop with the added bonus that the rail station at Llandudno is also closer to Tapps micropub than the bus stop!

 

[jamiearmley]

Metro zonal pricing applies in this area. So, for example, as knottingley, pontefract monkhill, Pontefract tanshelf, featherstone, streethouse, glasshoughton, castleford, normanton and wakefield kirkgate are all zone 3 stations, a Leeds return is the same price from all of them.

The evening peak in this area is at the behest of WYPTE, rather than Northern.

 

[Starmill]

Short journeys are very commonly terrible value for money, both by train and by bus. Especially where there's no Pay as you Go option.

The evening peak in this area is at the behest of WYPTE, rather than Northern.

There was some complex politics which led to the introduction of the higher fares, but suffice to say it was related to poor financial performance in the old Northern franchise, and a desire to see something done about it by DfT. Nothing changes im that regard of course. At the time it was chosen in preference introducing car park charges, which I have always thought was a serious mistake.

 

[D6130]

It is that’s why I use the train instead of the bus!

Besides it is a shorter walk to Deganwy Station than the bus stop with the added bonus that the rail station at Llandudno is also closer to Tapps micropub than the bus stop!

What better reason could you ask for?! Another important factor - especially when you get to my age - is that there is usually a toilet on the train!

 

[johntea]

A different kettle of fish of course but I've just managed to book a return trip to London from West Yorkshire (Pontefract / Wakefield) with Grand Central in January for a grand (no pun intended!) total of...£27

So I guess the moral of the story is next time I fancy eating out I'll just book a table with the Queen instead

 

[Starmill]

What better reason could you ask for?! Another important factor - especially when you get to my age - is that there is usually a toilet on the train!

Although using the onboard facilities may end up taking up almost your entire journey from Llandudno to Deganwy. It's only four minutes.

 

[Llandudno]

Although using the onboard facilities may end up taking up almost your entire journey from Llandudno to Deganwy. It's only four minutes.

And as Deganwy is a request stop don’t forget to tell the guard you want to alight there before you go to the loo…!

 

[miklcct]

I also was surprised how low this fare is for a train journey of around 2 miles. Try using buses outside of large cities in a shire county. For the journey from my village to the nearest town just over 2 miles away it is £3.10 single. It’s the same price to the shops in the opposite direction in the next village also around 2 miles away. That’s why I use my car as £6.20 return just to travel to a shop 2 miles away is rather excessive.

The situation where I live, take Bournemouth - Branksome (approx. 2 1/2 miles each way) outside of large cities although not in a shire county) as an example, train is £2.9 single and £3 return and bus is £2.4 single and £3.4 return. The train is much faster at 5 minutes vs 25 minutes. However, once in rural areas, bus fares are much more expensive with e.g. Ibsley - Ringwood at £3.7 single / £5.5 return and Studland - Swanage at £3.8 single / £5.5 return, both at similar distances. As a result buses end up being only used by those who cannot have a car at all, as everyone who can drive will just buy a cheap car to save money.

Short journeys are very commonly terrible value for money, both by train and by bus. Especially where there's no Pay as you Go option.

Public transport in this country is so expensive which is one of the reasons people don't travel by them, that if I travel by bus for 6 days per week making one round-trip each (5 km outward, 5 km return) spread among two operators, even in an urban area with the use of best-value tickets, the fare can come close to car ownership. This doesn't happen in most other countries I have visited, either because the fare is so cheap that it is cheaper than fuel cost alone, or because there is a period pass which works across all modes and operators.

In contrast, in Hong Kong, a significant portion of people living in rural villages travel by minibus, though car ownership is still common in those areas. Minibus travel there costs about 1/5 or less of the prices quoted above. A simple math calculation can show around a thousand population can support a minibus every 15 minutes carrying 12 people per trip, that's 48 people carried per hour. If they are spread over 6 hours (corresponding to the typical market hours), just a mere 288 people travelling daily to the market can already support an off-peak minibus service. If a household contains 2.5 people on average and each household has one person to go to the market, that's 720 people only. Despite some of them will own a car in rural areas, when the minibus fare is close to the fuel cost plus parking in town (which is possible if every off-peak journey carries about 12 passengers on average), people will take the minibus to the market instead of driving.