Caught by inspector in Manchester Victoria Station

[Bombastic348]

Yea I know, but is coming to an end for my course tho and I just left to do my dissertation for my master and will go back to my country. So, before going back I just want to settle this problem with a good intention and I have never had any offense in the UK, this is my first because of my silly mistake.
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During that time it is the first week of the month, I was broke and I came to manchester to get my cash withdraw from HSBC and deposit it to llyods. During the time I was caught, I have no money. However I normally deposit my money every 1 week or 2nd week of the month. It is really stressful and I need to deal for this fact but I admit is a mistake of stupidity, I do not know where my brain was at that time, I think it is too stress because of the exam I guess.
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As I mention before even I have debit card or a credit card, the officer cash machine is not working so probably they will just send me to the atm to withdraw money and come back to them. But unfortunately, my llyods debit card has no cash on it. It is a misfortune.
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Snail, I went using the stair case and I am nearing to the exit of the victoria station and they stop from there and asking for my ticket which I do not have. I believe someone follow me from the train platform and up to the ATM machine and down the stair so they know that.

 

[hantsman1205]

As you see island, I block my name this is an example of the card tho which is applicable to be use in HSBC.

Electron card maybe?

 

[bb21]

If you had no money with you (including in the accounts which you had cards with you for) at all to pay for your fare, then I am afraid the facts seems rather clear to me. You were clearly aware that you had no money to pay for your fare, so if Salford Crescent ticket office were open, you would have not been able to purchase a ticket for travel.

I am now certain that you have committed an offence, and if this matter were to go to court, you are likely to be convicted. If convicted under the Regulation of Railways Act, you will receive a criminal record, and this will undoubtedly have an impact if you apply to come to the UK again in the future. Your university might have separate disciplinary procedures.

You can write to them explaining the circumstances and apologising for what happened, promise that you have learned your lesson and offer to settle the matter out of court, however I cannot guarantee that the offer would be accepted.

 

[dave87016]

I have seen a RPI guy stand at the entrance to the MEN arena at top of steps of platforms 4/5 on my last couple of visits to Manchester Victoria

 

[island]

Electron card maybe?

Looks to me like an ATM-only card. Issued against savings accounts by a few UK banks and any account by some foreign banks, and sometimes only able to be used in that bank's ATMs.

 

[Bombastic348]

If you boarded a train without having funds or access to funds to pay for a ticket, it would seem to me that you have committed an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, the consequences of which are shown on your letter and could affect your immigration status if you are not an EU citizen.

It is usually the case that an offer of a substantial contribution to Northern's administrative and enforcement costs in the matter will result in the prosecution not being taken any further, but that could well cost £200 or even more, even for a fare avoided of just £1!

Going back to my previous question: if the ticket office at Salford Crescent had been open, how would you have paid for your ticket? Please answer this straightforward question.

Yea, I will use my credit card and pay. It always go through in the counter because I think it is different that the electronic card machine that the officer carry. During that time, as I mentioned before the officer electronic card machine did not detect either my debit card and credit card, he even say that this machine is getting into his nerve. So he ask to withdraw at the atm machine. .
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bb21, I still have my credit card VISA that time and they can even ask the person working the salford crescent to check my credit card account I use to paid. even thought it is 1 pound I did pay with my credit card few times in the counter salford crescent station.
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Unfortunately, they was noone at the counter that time if yes I will definitely paid for it.
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I am planning to speak to my student union and how I can go about from this.

 

[maniacmartin]

Yea, I will use my credit card and pay. It always go through in the counter because I think it is different that the electronic card machine that the officer carry. During that time, as I mentioned before the officer electronic card machine did not detect either my debit card and credit card, he even say that this machine is getting into his nerve. .

The card you are referencing there is, I presume, a different card from the HSBC card. I suspect the reason is that the portable machines (Avantix) do not take Full Auth cards, as the machine may be used in an area where there is no signal and no way to contact the bank at that moment to check you have the funds. As far as I am aware, it used to be the case that these were branded Electron or Solo, but that has been phased out and the new full-auth cards are merely branded VISA so look the same as any other VISA. Banks give them to people they don't want to go overdrawn. I suspect the card readers at the office, being permanently wired, so can check if the funds are available at the bank.

So he ask to withdraw at the atm machine.

There is a big difference between an authorised person telling you that you can go to the ATM to get the cash, and you deciding by yourself to exit the station to use the ATM

 

[Bombastic348]

Or probably get an advise from my local Citizen Bureau. I plan to write a letter to them and call whether they is other alternative way rather going to court and I am planning to settle this our of court. I hope everything will be fine.
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The only way is to follow bb21, write to them explaining the circumstances and apologising for what happened, promise that you have learned your lesson and offer to settle the matter out of court.
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Oh by the way, if I have a criminal record it will only be stay in UK for 5 years right?

 

[island]

Just to let you know, to quote a previous post you should use the quote button on the right hand side, rather than copying and pasting.

If you get a criminal record for this offence, it would be spent after five years and no longer need to be declared for most purposes, but it would still exist and would have to be declared for things like visa applications as well as when applying for certain jobs.

 

[Bombastic348]

Ok island, certain jobs in the UK only right? for example can I be absent from the court and just get my penalty fine? or how will it be? the aftermath ? can you tell me.
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Eventough this it is my first offense can they just let me go from a out court settlement or I will be eligible to get a summon to court.
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Oh yea for example I am leaving the UK on september, how can I get in touch of my matter as I have not longer have any address in the UK, is there any possible to get in touch with them my email, and you all have any email or contact number northern rail dealing with this matter.
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Do i need to tell them what happen during the event or just send them a letter apology as regard to the matter?

 

[snail]

At this stage all they want is your version of events to decide whether to take the prosecution further. An apology and offer to settle out of court should be enough. Wait until tomorrow, by then one of the regulars on here who is used to helping people in your situation will have read this thread and should offer to help you.

You mention that you will be leaving the UK in September. I think it would be good to try to settle this before then. Having a criminal conviction is not a good thing if you want to apply for a visa here (or in certain other countries) in the future.

 

[IanXC]

OK, an ATM only card. That clarifies things. But please can you tell me:

(or if the guard had somehow managed to serve you on the train?)

Electron card maybe?

Looks to me like an ATM-only card. Issued against savings accounts by a few UK banks and any account by some foreign banks, and sometimes only able to be used in that bank's ATMs.

Just to clarify the situation with the debit card pictured, it may well be a 'full debit card' as far as the OP and the bank who issued it are concerned.

There are a number of countries which do not have competing Card Networks, which means that (historically at least) there is no reason to brand the card with the name of the network. Malta and (until recently I think) Australia come to mind.

From the design of the card I think it has been issued in the Middle East or South East Asia, and in a country which does not have a named card network in operation.

 

[bb21]

Yea, I will use my credit card and pay. It always go through in the counter because I think it is different that the electronic card machine that the officer carry. During that time, as I mentioned before the officer electronic card machine did not detect either my debit card and credit card, he even say that this machine is getting into his nerve. So he ask to withdraw at the atm machine. .
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bb21, I still have my credit card VISA that time and they can even ask the person working the salford crescent to check my credit card account I use to paid. even thought it is 1 pound I did pay with my credit card few times in the counter salford crescent station.
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Unfortunately, they was noone at the counter that time if yes I will definitely paid for it.

I am confused. Did you have any money (or credit) in the card that you wanted to pay for your ticket with?

Can you confirm the following please.

(1) You had an HSBC card with you, which had enough money in there for your fare, however you can only use it at HSBC cash machines, not in shops or at ticket machines. Is this all correct?

(2) You also had a credit card from your country with you, which has a Visa sign on it. Was there any credit left on the card to pay the fare?

(3) You also had a Lloyds debit card with you but that had no money in it. Is this correct?

(4) You went to the cash machine at Manchester Victoria. You tried to withdraw money from your Lloyds account but couldn't as there was no money in it. Is this correct? Did you try withdrawing money with your credit card?

(5) Did you approach any PRI asking to buy a ticket before walking off?

Oh by the way, if I have a criminal record it will only be stay in UK for 5 years right?

To apply for immigration clearance in the future, you will need to disclose any criminal conviction, whether spent or not. This even applies to all other embassies as far as I am aware, so you will need to disclose this conviction (if you get convicted in court) even if you want to apply to enter the USA, Canada, etc.

Ok island, certain jobs in the UK only right? for example can I be absent from the court and just get my penalty fine? or how will it be? the aftermath ? can you tell me.

If you do not attend court or enter a plea, and the prosecution do not withdraw the case, you can be convicted in your absence.

Eventough this it is my first offense can they just let me go from a out court settlement or I will be eligible to get a summon to court.

An out-of-court settlement is a possibility.

Oh yea for example I am leaving the UK on september, how can I get in touch of my matter as I have not longer have any address in the UK, is there any possible to get in touch with them my email, and you all have any email or contact number northern rail dealing with this matter.

You can still get in touch with them via email or the telephone. If the matter is unresolved when you leave the country, you can let them know that you are leaving and provide them with an overseas address if you wish in order that further communication can be facilitated, although I recommend getting the matter sorted out while you're still in this country.

Some people might be willing to proof-read your letter to the company for you if you ask nicely.

 

[Bombastic348]

(1) You had an HSBC card with you, which had enough money in there for your fare, however you can only use it at HSBC cash machines, not in shops or at ticket machines. Is this all correct?

Yes

(2) You also had a credit card from your country with you, which has a Visa sign on it. Was there any credit left on the card to pay the fare?

Yes

(3) You also had a Lloyds debit card with you but that had no money in it. Is this correct?

Yes

(4) You went to the cash machine at Manchester Victoria. You tried to withdraw money from your Lloyds account but couldn't as there was no money in it. Is this correct? Did you try withdrawing money with your credit card?

I know my debit card is out of cash, so I went to check one more time if I can really use my HSBC card with me, so I look at the sign of the atm machine so I eventually said no to myself it would bit risky if my card get stuck or whatever happen, because previously I try llyods tsb atm machine using my HSBC it go stuck for few minutes and later onward I try to insert it to HSBC atm machine, it does not longer work so I need to go back to my country to authorize it back to use the card. No, I did not try to withdraw my money from the credit card, most of time I use my credit card from the teller card machine in the counter never withdraw.

(5) Did you approach any PRI asking to buy a ticket before walking off?

No I did not approach any PRI, as I went up to the platform to go to the atm machine and after a moment of realizing that I won take the risk I just go went out from the exit door.

For your information, as I mention before (not during the incident) I ever approach to the guard to explain there is noone in the salford crescent so I just board on the train and the officer say ok and tell me to pay here so I use my credit and debit card but the card teller machine doest not work so he ask me to go up to the atm machine to get some cash out. But during that time, I was lucky that have some cash on my llyods tsb. so I withdraw and pay to them.

That is the reason why I straight went up to the atm machine to check for whether my hsbc card will work but i don't want to take the risk because on that day I was planning to withdraw some money from that hsbc card and deposit it at Llyods tsb.

I was not thinking right that time because of the university exam stress I guess and plus I was in the hurry I guess my mind was not decisive enough for my action. Always taking the easy way now it hit me back.
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From my previous experience and encounter,

That is the reason why I straight went up to the atm machine to check for whether my hsbc card will work but i don't want to take the risk because on that day I was planning to withdraw some money from that hsbc card and deposit it at Llyods tsb.

I was not thinking right that time because of the university exam stress I guess and plus I was in the hurry I guess my mind was not decisive enough for my action. Always taking the easy way now it hit me back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
From my previous encounter and experience:

That is the reason why I straight went up to the atm machine to check (without going to the PRI first) whether my hsbc card will work but i don't want to take the risk because on that day I was planning to withdraw some money from that hsbc card and deposit it at Llyods tsb.

I was not thinking right that time because of the university exam stress I guess and plus I was in the hurry I guess my mind was not decisive enough for my action. Always taking the easy way now it hit me back.

 

[bb21]

Thanks.

I have nothing further to add to my previous advice. Our advice is usually that if you write a letter to the company, make sure that you don't incriminate yourself accidentally, however I think Northern might already have enough evidence in your case.

Have a look at some previous threads on prosecution for guidelines on writing your letter. If you can, get it done swiftly and some nice people on here might be willing to proof-read it for you before sending it off.

 

[cuccir]

No, I did not try to withdraw my money from the credit card, most of time I use my credit card from the teller card machine in the counter never withdraw

If nothing else, this could be your biggest problem - you could have withdrawn the money using your credit card, so you did have access to cash (admittedly at a cost).

BB21 is accurate. I would respond to Northern Rail and state the facts very clearly. Avoid looking for sympathy - instead, write in a very apologetic manner. Offer to pay for the ticket and costs. It seems like you have already incriminated yourself through what you said to the RPI (the Northern Rail staff member that you spoke to) and through your actions, so I'm not sure if you can do so any further.

Frankly, Northern may still prosecute as it seems like a good chance for a prosecution.

Would it help if Bombastic348 mentioned that they are leaving the country in September? Northern might decide to take the money, rather than trying to prosecute someone that could be in another country, with potential associated problems that the state would have in enforcing any sanctions?