Caught short-faring on ATW at Cardiff Central

[Mr Jones]

Yes you've guessed it. Another idiot here who thought he'd save himself a couple of ££££'s on a train fair and is now paying the price.

In July this year, I traveled from my local station to Cardiff Central, and instead of purchasing the correct fair at Cardiff Central ticket offices. I told the cashier on duty I actually travelled from a nearer station.

It was at this point I was pulled aside by an on duty ticket inspector and told I couldn't have made that journey that morning as the station I 'supposedly' travelled from, had inspectors present.

It's now early September and today I received the letter from the TIL advising that they have received my letter (sent following receipt of the initial
Letter) and after consideration they have no reason not to go to prosecution (I can't really blame them)

Having read a lot of similar threads, it appears the next course of action is to contact ATW and plead with these guys to see if they would be willing to accept a financial aettlement.

I was woundering what I should put in this e-mail/ letter? I cannot see any examples of what other people has drafted at this stage.

FYI, this will be my very first conviction. I've never been caught for anything similar or in trouble with the law. Not even a speeding ticket.

Lesson learnt big time.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[gray1404]

It sounds like you have received a standard letter from Transport Investigations Limited. I have heard of the few cases of people who have had similar letters from them, even after they have written back. What you can do at this point is write back (again) saying you are sorry and offer to pay the outstanding train fare plus their costs. You should also say that you understand the seriousness of it and that it will not happen again.

It does frustrate me that TIL seem to ignore a person's first request to settle out of court and they like to send another letter threatening court. Surely it is is everyone's interests to settle sooner rather then later. I my company was using TIL, i.e. ATW is their client, I would be telling them to get their act together on this one.

Of course, no TOC is under any duty to settle out of court. However, it is in their interests as they get the full amount of the settlement - more then what they would get if the case proceeded to court.

 

[Llanigraham]

Short and concise.
Apologise for your actions without making excuses.
Assure them it won't happen again.
Offer to pay all their expenses plus the outstanding fare.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Welcome to the forum Mr Jones.

Short faring in and around Cardiff is a widespread problem and as you've found out ATW are taking a no nonsense line with it due to many many previous Mr and Mrs Jones's who thought it was a jolly wheeze.

As to your letter basically just be honest, apologise promise not do it again without sounding too sarky or blaming your wife's cousins dog and some unprovable verbal comment from the generic unidentified staff member who never seems to be able to do their job properly and ask for an out of court settlement maybe even suggest a figure (but don't take the Michael by making it too low).

You said it was in July? - then luckily for you that was before the current "Buy Before you Board" campaign /crack down. I'm expecting some Court action from this if I have read the tea leaves correctly.

 

[6Gman]

It sounds like you have received a standard letter from Transport Investigations Limited. I have heard of the few cases of people who have had similar letters from them, even after they have written back. What you can do at this point is write back (again) saying you are sorry and offer to pay the outstanding train fare plus their costs. You should also say that you understand the seriousness of it and that it will not happen again.

It does frustrate me that TIL seem to ignore a person's first request to settle out of court and they like to send another letter threatening court. Surely it is is everyone's interests to settle sooner rather then later. I my company was using TIL, i.e. ATW is their client, I would be telling them to get their act together on this one.

Of course, no TOC is under any duty to settle out of court. However, it is in their interests as they get the full amount of the settlement - more then what they would get if the case proceeded to court.

Surely the company's best interests are served by a combination of settlements (income) and prosecutions (deterrent)?

There may also be a political element to it - "If fare evasion is such a big problem why don't we see many prosecutions?"

 

[gingerheid]

Surely the company's best interests are served by a combination of settlements (income) and prosecutions (deterrent)?

There may also be a political element to it - "If fare evasion is such a big problem why don't we see many prosecutions?"

An organisation I worked for ensured that their prosecution policy had a random and unpredictable aspect to it. Prosecution is expensive and time-consuming, so you want to ensure you get the maximum deterrent effect out it. Partly this can be done by ensuring that people don't feel they can see a reliably guaranteed way out it.

 

[Clip]

An organisation I worked for ensured that their prosecution policy had a random and unpredictable aspect to it. Prosecution is expensive and time-consuming, so you want to ensure you get the maximum deterrent effect out it. Partly this can be done by ensuring that people don't feel they can see a reliably guaranteed way out it.

Indeed - which some people on here seem to think a passenger either has the right to a PF or an Out of court settlement.

Wasn't it ATW who have been putting stories in the local papers about their successful prosecutions?

OP - if they deny you again then come back for advice on how to prepare for your day in court

 

[Jamo04]

Yes you've guessed it. Another idiot here who thought he'd save himself a couple of ££££'s on a train fair and is now paying the price.

In July this year, I traveled from my local station to Cardiff Central, and instead of purchasing the correct fair at Cardiff Central ticket offices. I told the cashier on duty I actually travelled from a nearer station.

It was at this point I was pulled aside by an on duty ticket inspector and told I couldn't have made that journey that morning as the station I 'supposedly' travelled from, had inspectors present.

It's now early September and today I received the letter from the TIL advising that they have received my letter (sent following receipt of the initial
Letter) and after consideration they have no reason not to go to prosecution (I can't really blame them)

Hi Mr Jones!

I am in the exact same situation! I have sent an apology letter to both ATW and TIL with the hope they will settle out of court!

I sent the letter on the 21st Aug and have yet to receive a reply! This was also my first offence in general so hopeful i will get a fine and a lesson learnt!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Hi Mr Jones!

I am in the exact same situation! I have sent an apology letter to both ATW and TIL with the hope they will settle out of court!

I sent the letter on the 21st Aug and have yet to receive a reply! This was also my first offence in general so hopeful i will get a fine and a lesson learnt!

What date were you caught?

 

[Mr Jones]

6th July

 

[Mr Jones]

What date were you caught?

I was caught early July.

I've just sent my second response to TIL. Along similar lines to my initial letter.

Fingers crossed, but I don't hold out much hope.

Many Thanks for the help to date guys.

 

[Jamo04]

What date were you caught?

End of May

 

[Deerfold]

It sounds like you have received a standard letter from Transport Investigations Limited. I have heard of the few cases of people who have had similar letters from them, even after they have written back. What you can do at this point is write back (again) saying you are sorry and offer to pay the outstanding train fare plus their costs. You should also say that you understand the seriousness of it and that it will not happen again.

It does frustrate me that TIL seem to ignore a person's first request to settle out of court and they like to send another letter threatening court. Surely it is is everyone's interests to settle sooner rather then later. I my company was using TIL, i.e. ATW is their client, I would be telling them to get their act together on this one.

Of course, no TOC is under any duty to settle out of court. However, it is in their interests as they get the full amount of the settlement - more then what they would get if the case proceeded to court.

Presumably a later settlement means TIL doing more work, which they'll get paid for by someone. It's not their problem is costs are higher.

 

[gray1404]

Presumably a later settlement means TIL doing more work, which they'll get paid for by someone. It's not their problem is costs are higher.

Exactly, then can ignore it, do some more work (needlessly) and know they can charge for it later on. It is morally wrong.

 

[Mr Jones]

Hi Mr Jones!

I am in the exact same situation! I have sent an apology letter to both ATW and TIL with the hope they will settle out of court!

I sent the letter on the 21st Aug and have yet to receive a reply! This was also my first offence in general so hopeful i will get a fine and a lesson learnt!

Sorry Jamo04, only just spotted your post. Fingers crossed for you mate. Keep us posted.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Indeed both fingers crossed.

 

[Jamo04]

RESULT -
I received a letter yesterday from TIL advising they will accept a payment of £74 to close the matter.
I have paid this already and am glad its all over and done with!
Mr Jones - should you need any advice just let me know.
I had written to ATW as well as TIL to apologize and it looks like it paid off!

 

[Mr Jones]

RESULT -
I received a letter yesterday from TIL advising they will accept a payment of £74 to close the matter.
I have paid this already and am glad its all over and done with!
Mr Jones - should you need any advice just let me know.
I had written to ATW as well as TIL to apologize and it looks like it paid off!

Ahhh great news mate. That's the next step for me, sending a similar letter to ATW.

 

[Mr Jones]

All,

A little update from me. I have received another letter from TIL advising they are now going to apply for a court summons. What address do I use ATW directly? I cannot seem to locate an address on any of the correspondence for ATW. Just the TIL offices.

Cheers
Paul

 

[Gareth Marston]

All,

A little update from me. I have received another letter from TIL advising they are now going to apply for a court summons. What address do I use ATW directly? I cannot seem to locate an address on any of the correspondence for ATW. Just the TIL offices.

Cheers
Paul

I'm sorry but it looks like your being made an example off - which is what I've excepted for while now generally to go in line with the new crackdown campaign (not you personally). ATW will just refer you back to TIL. I suppose its now a question of whether you get named in the South Wales Echo/Western Mail or they just says x amount of people were find £Y amount at Cardiff Magistrates for fares evasion today.....

 

[tiptoptaff]

FAO Head of Fares Enforcement
Arriva Trains Wales,
St Mary's House,
47 Penarth Road,
Cardiff
CF10 5DJ

 

[Jamo04]

Mr Jones - Has there been any update on this? Fingers are crossed for you.

 

[sam123]

I would also like to know what happened as I am now in similar situation thanks

 

[Mr Jones]

Today, I recieved an e-mail back from ATW noting that for first time offenders they usually allow a seatlement fee to be agreed but they go on to note that I have to deal with TIL and that they are unable to step in. Looks like they are taking a stronger stance on these case.

I’m going to reply and plead my case again but it’s not looking great.

Cheers
Paul

 

[najaB]

... they go on to note that I have to deal with TIL and that they are unable to step in. Looks like they are taking a stronger stance on these case.

I’m going to reply and plead my case again but it’s not looking great.

That's pretty standard. TIL have the case file at the moment and it's out of ATW's hands for now.

 

[Mr Jones]

That's pretty standard. TIL have the case file at the moment and it's out of ATW's hands for now.

Ahhhh right ok. Does the case file go back to ATW at some point?

Currently I have the following.

- Letter from TIL noting they are going to apply for Court summons’s

- E-mail from ATW noting I have to deal with TIL and they are unable to step in as if it may effect any legal cases that are brought about by TIL

I will try writing to both parties again and further pleading my case.

Cheers for the help to date guys. It’s much appreciated.

 

[sam123]

Out of curiosity what station did you actually travel from and what did you say you travelled from is there only one stop distance?

 

[najaB]

Ahhhh right ok. Does the case file go back to ATW at some point?

I will try writing to both parties again and further pleading my case.

As I understand things, once TIL have decide what is going to happen they'll pass the case back to ATW's prosecutors with a recommendation to drop it, settle or present it in court.

 

[sam123]

Has anyone actually gone to court after refused settlements? All I have seen is settlements that have been accepted

 

[najaB]

Has anyone actually gone to court after refused settlements? All I have seen is settlements that have been accepted

It does happen sometimes, yes.