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Caught short-faring on ATW at Cardiff Central

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sam123

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Would that be for more serious evasions not just one stop? Or for someone who has been caught before ?
 
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najaB

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Would that be for more serious evasions not just one stop? Or for someone who has been caught before ?
It would happen when the person doesn't present a reasonable reason why the prosecution shouldn't continue - one example would be if they attempt to blame someone else (e.g. 'the man on the platform said...') rather than admit culpability.
 

Fare-Cop

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This post by DaveNewcastle from another thread may help:

ATW will refer your correspondence to Transport Investigations (TI).

I wonder if some clarification on process might be helpful here.It is true that different companies have different policies, but the process applicable to ATW is that :-
  • Each incident is investigated and assessed by Transport Investigations (TI);
  • TI is responsible for all correspondence;
  • TI is responsible for determining whether to recommend a prosecution or alternative resolution (prosecution is always chosen for giving false name or address, deliberate short faring, repeat offending, etc where the evidence is sufficient);
  • Where prosecution is recommended, a file is prepared and sent to ATW for approval;
  • A Director of ATW must confirm each recommendation for prosecution before TI will prepare for prosecution any further;
  • TI will apply to the Court for a Summons;
  • The Court will issue a Summons to the accused offender;
  • TI will prepare the papers for trial and instruct a Prosecutor;
  • TI will consider any suggestions of an administrative disposal on its own merits (an 'out-of-Court settlement'), though the circumstances which always lead to a prosecution as listed above will continue to apply;
  • TI will also consider any "last-minute" suggestions of an administrative disposal on its own merits (an 'out-of-Court settlement'), which the Prosecutor would refer back to them from the Court;
  • ATW would be informed if a decision not to prosecute a particular incident was taken by TI at any point after having given its approval to prosecute.
This process was agreed with Transport Focus.

Some Welsh Assembly members had been vocal in expressing concern at the policy of attempting to change the entrenched 'pay only if challenged' habits in south Wales, and the procedure above was developed in response, in consultation with, and was approved by, Transport Focus.

This isn't quite the same as saying that 'a case is handed back to' ATW. Nor that ATW is the prosecutor.

Cross Country (XC) have agreed the same procedure with TI as have ATW.

Hope this helps.
 

sam123

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It would happen when the person doesn't present a reasonable reason why the prosecution shouldn't continue - one example would be if they attempt to blame someone else (e.g. 'the man on the platform said...') rather than admit culpability.
Ok thanks
 

sam123

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I think from what you’ve implied in your previous post is that you’ve also broken the law - I assume you believe it’s ‘less illegal’ just because it was ‘one stop’?
Maybe you shouldn’t assume things then
 

Gareth Marston

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Would that be for more serious evasions not just one stop? Or for someone who has been caught before ?

Whether its one stop or ten that's involved its still the same offence there's no gradation. Obviously these companies have databases of who've they've dealt with previously and a repeat offender would be instantly flagged up.
 

Mr Jones

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Has anyone actually gone to court after refused settlements? All I have seen is settlements that have been accepted
Looks like you jinx'ed me. Today I received my court summons for a date later in November. The summons recommends a set of charges which id be more than willing to accept so have once again e-mailed Arriva to see if they are willing to assist.

The first response I had from Arriva just passed me back to TIL and refused to deal with it. I'm not holding much hope on this one. It would seem they are starting to take a harder stance on Fare Evasion.
 

Gareth Marston

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This has been on the cards since the Buy Before You Board Campaign was launched at the end of July. Should see some newspaper reports in near future getting the message out.
 

furlong

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However a defence solicitor might try to use an inexplicable refusal to agree to a reasonable out-of-court settlement to their client's advantage (e.g. no award of costs, even absolute discharge).
 

DaveNewcastle

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However a defence solicitor might try to use an inexplicable refusal to agree to a reasonable out-of-court settlement to their client's advantage (e.g. no award of costs, even absolute discharge).
I am at a loss to understand how the bench of a Magistrates Court could find themselves being concerned with that argument in the course of the three duties they are obliged to fulfill :-
1) To assess the evidence presented in order to determine whether or not the Offence as stated was committed;
2) To assess the evidence presented to determine whether it was the accused person who committed the alleged Offence;
3) If so, to consider the circumstances of the accused in relation to the Sentencing Guidelines and then to impose the penalty that results from that assessment.

While it is correct to note that very many Private Prosecutions are settled or vacated following some negotiation between the parties, I am not aware of any procedure, direction or rule which allows a bench to consider a refusal to settle out of court (inexplicable or otherwise), in the course of those three duties. That is not to say that any pre-trial Case Management Hearing would not consider the benefits of such a settlement, nor that a properly constituted Court would not appreciate that such a settlement could avoid uneccessarily troubling the judicial system any further. But those positive views would not have a place once an allegation reaches a Court to Prosecute a Criminal Offence.
 

furlong

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Well Northern seems to think that, in reality, these considerations do affect the outcome for a very straightforward reason:

we are constantly challenged following laying charges and in court by advocates, who remonstrate that if this was a CPS matter it would be dealt with by way of Caution or Fixed Penalty!
...Those who refuse to accept our offer of disposal...proceed to court as normal and the Magistrates will be informed of the defendant's option and subsequent reluctance to accept our offer...the failure of the defendant to comply with our reasonable request will dramatically influence the decision of the Magistrates when sentencing.

(ref. FOI )
 

Haywain

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So, Northern tell the court that the defendant declined an opportunity to pay the fare subsequently. You think that wouldn't influence the magistrates?
 

sam123

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Looks like you jinx'ed me. Today I received my court summons for a date later in November. The summons recommends a set of charges which id be more than willing to accept so have once again e-mailed Arriva to see if they are willing to assist.

The first response I had from Arriva just passed me back to TIL and refused to deal with it. I'm not holding much hope on this one. It would seem they are starting to take a harder stance on Fare Evasion.
What was the set of charges offered?
 

Puffing Devil

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So, Northern tell the court that the defendant declined an opportunity to pay the fare subsequently. You think that wouldn't influence the magistrates?

No. The defendant is before the court for failing to pay, ergo if they had paid, they would not be there. Northern can (and do) claim compensation for the unpaid fare as part of the prosecution process. Should payment be made before the court appearance, all that is lost is the ability to claim compensation. It's unlikely to alter the sentence, which will be a fixed multiple of salary (or assumed income if on benefits)

As DaveNewcastle has said, Magistrates are driven now by the sentencing guidelines and rarely veer away from them at the fear of an appeal.
 

jumble

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Well Northern seems to think that, in reality, these considerations do affect the outcome for a very straightforward reason:



(ref. FOI )


A well put together document made a bit amusing a bit by a lack of attention to detail the top of page 2.
( unless I am missing something)


1. Simply refuse to sell discounted tickets from staffed stations
makes no sense whatever

Regards
Jumble
 

Puffing Devil

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A well put together document made a bit amusing a bit by a lack of attention to detail the top of page 2.
( unless I am missing something)


1. Simply refuse to sell discounted tickets from staffed stations
makes no sense whatever

Regards
Jumble

Makes sense to me, though maybe makes more sense in the context of the document. They are saying that some TOCs tackle the problem by not allowing purchase on board, or after the fact, tickets with discount. All you can buy is an Anytime Single or, possibly, a return. Don't buy before you board from a staffed station = no discount. NB this is not NR policy, this is them citing what they believe other TOCs did at the time of writing (2013)
 
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