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Caught travelling with 60+ oyster. Criminal record?

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Enko

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Hello everyone
I am 19 years old who possess a student oyster (but my family paid for only monthly pass during financial reason)(doing a levels) who got a summer internship for 4 weeks. One month ago i have also found an 60+ oyster but i wasnt really using it beforehand as there was no need for regular tube travel, till my internship started, since i couldnt adjust what time to leave the house and i didnt want to risk losing my internship, since it was my first job experience

On the second week of internship(today), i got caught by the revenue inspector in Bethnal Green who requested to show the used oyster. I gave him my student oyster as an ID as well as correct address, told him that i found the 60+ on the street q month ago but used roughly 5 times due to my internship travel. I also mentioned lastly if i have something else to add and i told hin that after my last day i would not need regular tube travel and stop using it


He said that i will receive a letter which i have to say that am either guilty (will pay fine) or not (will go to court)

Is there chances of getting criminal record? Im so worried since i havent been caught in my life before and they can check the travels that i havent done in order to proove it

Cheers for everyone
 
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cuccir

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Welcome to the forums.

Can I just confirm what happened as there's a few details missing from your post.

You found a 60+ Oyster Card a month ago and started using it last week when your internship started. Did you tap in with this Oyster card for the journey on which you were caught? My understanding is that 60+ Oyster cards allow free travel on the Tube, but do you know if the card had any Pay As You Go credit, or any other sort of ticket, on it? You were caught at Bethnal Green: was that attempting to enter the tube or leave? Where was your journey from/to, and was this the journey you made every time with the 60+ Oyster Card? And at what time of day did you start your journey? And your Student Oyster Card - what ticket exactly and/or Pay As You Go credit did it have on it?

In many ways owning the Student Oyster Card is irrelevant in this instance: you were reported for using the 60+ Oyster Card which you weren't eligible to use. You admitted in your statement to the revenue inspector that you had used it since the start of your internship and were intending to continue using it for up to about a month?

You will receive a letter from TfL within the next few months, and this will probably ask you to give your side of the story. They will threaten prosecution for travelling without a ticket, and perhaps for trying to evade your fare. When replying, this will be your opportunity to apologise, to recognise you've done wrong, and to ask if they will settle the matter out of court with you offering to pay the missed fares and the costs of investigating the matter so far. TfL do settle out of court sometimes and if perhaps you empahasize your regret, and youthful inexperience, then there is always a chance that they will.

However - and noting that this may shift depending on the answers to the questions above - then there is a good chance that they already have enough evidence to make a case against you in court - they will use what you told the revenue inspector - which would probably result in a conviction. I should warn you that there may be a chance that TfL takes this more seriously and look at prosecuting you for theft of the Oyster card. This falls outside of our expertise on these forums, as it is general criminal law rather than railway law, but my understanding is that using a found Oyster Card could potentially be classed as theft.

I'm sorry not to be able to respond with anything more positive than that.
 

TFN

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My understanding is that 60+ Oyster cards allow free travel on the Tube, but do you know if the card had any Pay As You Go credit, or any other sort of ticket, on it?

60+ Oyster Cards can't have a PAYG balance or season ticket on it. It behaves more or less like a Freedom Pass.
 

Enko

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Welcome to the forums.

Can I just confirm what happened as there's a few details missing from your post.

You found a 60+ Oyster Card a month ago and started using it last week when your internship started. Did you tap in with this Oyster card for the journey on which you were caught? My understanding is that 60+ Oyster cards allow free travel on the Tube, but do you know if the card had any Pay As You Go credit, or any other sort of ticket, on it? You were caught at Bethnal Green: was that attempting to enter the tube or leave? Where was your journey from/to, and was this the journey you made every time with the 60+ Oyster Card? And at what time of day did you start your journey? And your Student Oyster Card - what ticket exactly and/or Pay As You Go credit did it have on it?

In many ways owning the Student Oyster Card is irrelevant in this instance: you were reported for using the 60+ Oyster Card which you weren't eligible to use. You admitted in your statement to the revenue inspector that you had used it since the start of your internship and were intending to continue using it for up to about a month?

You will receive a letter from TfL within the next few months, and this will probably ask you to give your side of the story. They will threaten prosecution for travelling without a ticket, and perhaps for trying to evade your fare. When replying, this will be your opportunity to apologise, to recognise you've done wrong, and to ask if they will settle the matter out of court with you offering to pay the missed fares and the costs of investigating the matter so far. TfL do settle out of court sometimes and if perhaps you empahasize your regret, and youthful inexperience, then there is always a chance that they will.

However - and noting that this may shift depending on the answers to the questions above - then there is a good chance that they already have enough evidence to make a case against you in court - they will use what you told the revenue inspector - which would probably result in a conviction. I should warn you that there may be a chance that TfL takes this more seriously and look at prosecuting you for theft of the Oyster card. This falls outside of our expertise on these forums, as it is general criminal law rather than railway law, but my understanding is that using a found Oyster Card could potentially be classed as theft.

I'm sorry not to be able to respond with anything more positive than that.

Good afternoon

I tapped today at Bethnal Green at roughly 8:20 in the morning as i was entering central line. As regards of journeys, I always tried to use the bus only in the morning since i have a month bus ticket and resorting to the card when i saw tha i couldnt make it on time. In other words, the journeys were always at 8-9 am though i tried not to leave the tube at the exact same station, since as i mentioned begore, used the bus as well. As for the card, it wasnt PAYG and the season ticket includes all zones 1-9 till September of 2020.I never used it to return at home.

So yh long story short, it was mostly used as the last resort
 

Bungle158

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Short answer. If you get prosecuted, you face conviction and an inevitable criminal record. A custodial sentence is highly unlikely, but you will have unspent conviction(s) These must be declared to a prospective employer and MAY affect travel/visa plans.

Best course, if open to you, is toavoid prosecution, apologise, take responsibility for your actions, offer redress and hope for a favourable response.
 
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Enko

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Cheers for the responses

One question, does it take one month to receive the first letter? I will be on holiday in august
 

island

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It can take anything from a week to several months. If you will be away for more than two weeks during the period, it would be advisable to take action to ensure they do not assume you are ignoring the letter.
 

K.o.R

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Would suspicion have been raised because a concessionary pass lights the "child" marker on the barrier?
 

nuts & bolts

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Would suspicion have been raised because a concessionary pass lights the "child" marker on the barrier?

It's possible, but I'm wondering if the 60+ Oyster was eventually reported lost and subsequently blocked? There is also the possibility of monitored fraudulent use knowing where the lost pass has been used, akin to an angler waiting for a bite:-/
 

Enko

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It's possible, but I'm wondering if the 60+ Oyster was eventually reported lost and subsequently blocked? There is also the possibility of monitored fraudulent use knowing where the lost pass has been used, akin to an angler waiting for a bite:-/

Thats the first time i went from Bethnal Green, so kinda unlikely
 

Clip

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I'm not sure that there is any usefulness to this line of questioning.

Indeed but for nuts & bolts peace of mind then the barriers do show a code when certain Oysters are presented and i would assume so for this kind of pass.
 

Enko

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Since I am kinda confused

Initially i will receive a letter which states to write my point of view...few months after the first letter, a second one will come in which i have to pick either guilty or not guilty

Amirite? If not, correct me if possible
 

Enko

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Oh and for the record, the oyster wasnt blocked and was able to access the barriers, it was moment after mt access that i was interrogated
 

Fawkes Cat

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First, the bad news: the explanation in post #5 above is what could happen. You could well end up with a criminal record, and have to pay a fine of some hundreds of pounds.

But now, some less bad news:
- you won't go to prison. A fine (and court costs, and compensation) is as bad as it can get
- a criminal record isn't the end of the world. To give some more bad news, it might make things difficult if you are applying for British citizenship, or if you want to work in finance (the city) or the law, but otherwise many employers can be understanding. You will need to tell them about your conviction or you will have added lying to fare dodging, but as long as you are honest, you will probably be fine.

Don't hope that this will go away. Keep an eye out for letters over the next six months or more: reply promptly, honestly and apologetically: make it clear that you have learnt your lesson and you won't do it again.
 

cuccir

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Since I am kinda confused

Initially i will receive a letter which states to write my point of view...few months after the first letter, a second one will come in which i have to pick either guilty or not guilty

Amirite? If not, correct me if possible

Yes, initially you'll get the letter asking to send in your explanation for what happened (sometimes this doesn't get sent but it's rare).

If they chose to prosecute you they can either send you (1) a 'Single Justice Procedure Notice' (SJPN) which is, in normal language, a letter where you pick guilty or not guilty; or (2) a Summons for court.

If it's a SJPN, then you can plead guilty and you'll receive your sentence via post without ever going to court. If you plead not guilty, you'll have a trial in a magistrates court - that is, with 3 magistrate judges.

Alternatively if it's a Summons for court, you'll have a date in court when you plead guilty or not guilty. If you pick not guilty, you'll then probably get a second date for a trial. If you pick guilty, you'll probably be sentenced then.
 

bb21

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Excuse me if I were wrong, but you don't sound very remorseful to me. It won't help you in seeking a favourable outcome if you come across dismissive of the whole incident and unaware of the gravity of your mistake.
 

nuts & bolts

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I'm not sure that there is any usefulness to this line of questioning.

It may not for you:)

Indeed but for nuts & bolts peace of mind then the barriers do show a code when certain Oysters are presented and i would assume so for this kind of pass.

Quite right - thank you:)

Oh and for the record, the oyster wasnt blocked and was able to access the barriers, it was moment after mt access that i was interrogated

It may have been (overhead) barrier cctv operator relaying info to gate line staff or the sharp eyes of RPI together with gate code from tap out that’s caught you!
 

RJ

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Can you explain why the Revenue Inspector picked on you, random? Or did the Gateline refuse exit/entry?

Thanks

A diode on the gate lights up when any kind of discounted Oyster card is validated which is what prompts the RPIs to check the card.
 

Islineclear3_1

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Enko has a choice - to realise the gravity of what he's done and draft out his response whilst waiting for the letter to arrive or - have his day in court

Personally, if I was him (or her), I would listen to the respected members on this forum to help him understand the error of his ways
 

Bungle158

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A court would obviously listen to extenuating circumstances before passing sentence. However, that would not prevent some sort of criminal record, although with a shorter effect.

As a former guard, l had daily brushes with fare evaders. We had excellent backup from the RP department, but they have limited resources and cannot be present in all trains/locations. This does lead to a chance it mentality in some quarters.

As such, perhaps more publicity, pointing out the risks to would be dodgers may be helpful.

Although it seems harsh to impose a criminal record for a relatively minor offence, the risk is there for transgressors. Perhaps the relevant Revenue Protection department will see this as a lesson learned and show leniency.
 

Mag_seven

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The purpose of this section of the forum is for those in the know to provide advice to the transgressor, not to pour scorn on them.
 

yorkie

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.... The purpose of this section of the forum is for those in the know to provide advice to the transgressor, not to pour scorn on them.
Agreed.

Just a reminder to all that this forum is for people to give and receive advice.

No-one is forced to reply to any thread! However if anyone chooses to do so, then posts should be constructive. It may be that constructive advice details the relevant legislation that a prosecution may fall under, and advice is given to plead guilty and/or to reach an out of court settlement, but sticking the boot in without providing a constructive response is not within the remit of posting in this section of the forum.


... Perhaps the relevant Revenue Protection department will see this as a lesson learned and show leniency.
In the case of TfL, this is unlikely.

Non-TfL TOCs are more likely to reach an out of court settlement.
 

Bungle158

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The purpose of this section of the forum is for those in the know to provide advice to the transgressor, not to pour scorn on them.

Although l had no intention to criticise the conduct of the OP, or to take the moral high ground, l can see that, in my desire to develop the topic, l may have stepped outside the remit of this platform.

If l have transgressed, l apologise and will happily remove or amend any of my posts. Please put this down to my newbie status. For my part, l will take care to remain on topic in future. Thanks for your understanding.
 

Mag_seven

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Although l had no intention to criticise the conduct of the OP, or to take the moral high ground, l can see that, in my desire to develop the topic, l may have stepped outside the remit of this platform.

If l have transgressed, l apologise and will happily remove or amend any of my posts. Please put this down to my newbie status. For my part, l will take care to remain on topic in future. Thanks for your understanding.

I was responding to an earlier post that has since been removed (not your post) - your advice is sound and helps the OP in their situation which is the purpose of this section of the forum.
 

Bensonby

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The post that was removed was mine, and on reflection it may have been needlessly terse for which I apologise. What I was trying to point out is that there a series of offences that the OP could be prosecuted for:

In basic terms:

Fare evasion - essentially for wilfully avoiding a fare

Fraud - for misrepresenting himself as the person for whom the card was issued to.

Theft - For finding and using the card. (“Theft by finding” as it is commonly referred to - if you find something that isn’t yours and treat it as your own without taking steps to restore it, it is considered theft just the same as if you took it).

All of these offences are “recordable” - I.e. they go on the Police National Computer.

Whether these charges are likely scenarios remains to be seen. I guess it depends if TFL refer the matter to the British Transport Police. I know TFL take a dim view of fare evasion, so I think a settlement (and therefore avoiding a criminal record) is unlikely. I doubt they would prosecute for non “railway-specific offences” though, but I’m not certain of this.
 
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