Caught travelling with 60+ oyster. Criminal record?

[Enko]

I read all the messages and thanks for recommendations as well as any critisism (i deserve it after all, and obviously understand that whatever i did was terrible, hence not using it outside of the few times i felt i was short of time, they can also check the routes for that)

Am all for being punished, i just wish for something that doesnt affects significally my future, after all, whatever i did was for my future sake (first proper work experience)

If anyone would prefer to add any extra advice/caution, feel free

 

[Bungle158]

Good luck. I don't know anyone who can cast the first stone.

 

[Enko]

Mod note: Previous thread reopened and this post added to the end.

Good evening everyone

For those who arent aware, here is my story:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caught-travelling-with-60-oyster-criminal-record.186347/

For the time being, I have sent both letter and email in which states my POV. I was wondering how will i learn if the incident will be settled our-of-court?

In addition, shall i also call them/write another email or there is no reason in order to convince TfL

Thanks

 

[najaB]

I was wondering how will i learn if the incident will be settled our-of-court?

TfL will likely write to you in a week or two either offering you a settlement or stating that they intend to proceed with a prosecution.

 

[some bloke]

shall i also call them/write another email or there is no reason in order to convince TfL

That may depend on what you have written - if you post it here people may be better able to comment.

I was wondering how will i learn if the incident will be settled our-of-court?

You can expect to learn what they say they intend to do. It's still possible to attempt to reach a settlement - if all else fails you could go to the court early, ask staff where the prosecutor is and talk to them in person.

 

[shredder1]

Welcome to the forums.

Can I just confirm what happened as there's a few details missing from your post.

You found a 60+ Oyster Card a month ago and started using it last week when your internship started. Did you tap in with this Oyster card for the journey on which you were caught? My understanding is that 60+ Oyster cards allow free travel on the Tube, but do you know if the card had any Pay As You Go credit, or any other sort of ticket, on it? You were caught at Bethnal Green: was that attempting to enter the tube or leave? Where was your journey from/to, and was this the journey you made every time with the 60+ Oyster Card? And at what time of day did you start your journey? And your Student Oyster Card - what ticket exactly and/or Pay As You Go credit did it have on it?

In many ways owning the Student Oyster Card is irrelevant in this instance: you were reported for using the 60+ Oyster Card which you weren't eligible to use. You admitted in your statement to the revenue inspector that you had used it since the start of your internship and were intending to continue using it for up to about a month?

You will receive a letter from TfL within the next few months, and this will probably ask you to give your side of the story. They will threaten prosecution for travelling without a ticket, and perhaps for trying to evade your fare. When replying, this will be your opportunity to apologise, to recognise you've done wrong, and to ask if they will settle the matter out of court with you offering to pay the missed fares and the costs of investigating the matter so far. TfL do settle out of court sometimes and if perhaps you empahasize your regret, and youthful inexperience, then there is always a chance that they will.

However - and noting that this may shift depending on the answers to the questions above - then there is a good chance that they already have enough evidence to make a case against you in court - they will use what you told the revenue inspector - which would probably result in a conviction. I should warn you that there may be a chance that TfL takes this more seriously and look at prosecuting you for theft of the Oyster card. This falls outside of our expertise on these forums, as it is general criminal law rather than railway law, but my understanding is that using a found Oyster Card could potentially be classed as theft.

I'm sorry not to be able to respond with anything more positive than that.

Would that not be fraud?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I hope for your sake that when TfL write to you, they will be lenient

I also hope that you will/have learnt from this incident (and from the wisdom by the respective members) and to think twice before using somebody else's oyster

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Would that not be fraud?

I would have thought so, but have no idea what line of action TfL will take

 

[cuccir]

Would that not be fraud?

Do you mean for using someone else's card? I don't think it would usually be prosecuted as such, even if it fell into that category. From what I know - and I Am Not A Lawyer - fraud prosecutions are not usually the most straightforward to do.

If TfL did go for something harsher than normal railway legislation, it would probably be for theft of the found Oyster 60+ card. But they might well just stick with what they know, ie, railway legislation, as it's a much easier prosecution.

 

[SussexMan]

A custodial sentence is highly unlikely, but you will have unspent conviction(s) These must be declared to a prospective employer

but otherwise many employers can be understanding. You will need to tell them about your conviction or you will have added lying to fare dodging, but as long as you are honest, you will probably be fine.

Just to clarify, you only have to declare unspent convictions if asked to by a prospective employer. The advice given suggested that you must proactively tell them which isn't correct.

 

[some bloke]

you only have to declare unspent convictions if asked to by a prospective employer.

In most circumstances, you only have to declare an unspent conviction to a prospective employer if they ask.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-guidance-on-the-rehabilitation-of-offenders-act-1974

The document mentions exceptions: some more serious crimes, and examples of areas of work.

Also, some professional organisations may require a person to inform a prospective or current employer and the organisation of not just a conviction but even a charge.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Just to clarify, you only have to declare unspent convictions if asked to by a prospective employer. The advice given suggested that you must proactively tell them which isn't correct.

We're beginning to go off at a tangent, and having looked at my original post I can see why @SussexMan wanted to clarify it, but what we're now saying is potentially misleading too.

As @SussexMan says, if you're applying for a job, you only need mention convictions if the potential employer asks (and even then, what you have to say can be limited by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act - it depends on the offence and the job). But if you are already in a job, the contract you agreed to may mean that you need to disclose. https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/receiving-a-criminal-record-whilst-you-are-employed/ puts it like this:

Do you legally need to disclose a new conviction to your employer?
Whether you have to disclose a conviction obtained during employment is not always clear; a lot will depend on what your contract of employment states.

If your contract says that you have a duty to inform your employer of convictions received during your employment, then this is pretty clear cut and a failure to do so would be treated as a breach of your employment contract. If your employer were to discover your conviction, you may be dismissed if you had not informed them of it.

For employers who don’t make it clear whether you should disclose convictions received during employment, then there is no legal obligation on you to do so. If your conviction were to be discovered, then this, on its own, would not be a reason for your employers to dismiss you. However, some employers may feel justified in dismissing you on the basis that they can no longer trust you based on your keeping your conviction from them.

If you receive a disposal that becomes spent immediately (i.e. a caution), then you should be able to rely on the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and not disclose (as long as the role/position isn’t exempt from the ROA).

Is there anything else you should consider about disclosing your criminal record?
There are some situations where you would have no choice but to disclose to an employer. For example, if your job involved driving, then the loss of your driving licence would mean that if you were to say nothing, you may have to continue driving and would therefore be committing an offence every time you got behind the wheel of the car.

If your conviction leads to restrictions being put on you, e.g. a harassment conviction could come with conditions attached regarding locations you cannot go and/or people you cannot have contact with. This could affect your ability to do your job, and make it impractical to carry out your duties without committing a further offence.

If there is any chance (either through gossip, publicity or being subject to regular formal criminal record checks) that you will get found out, then you will have to weigh up the chances of dismissal against the likelihood of the employer finding out by themselves and holding both that fact and the conviction against you.

 

[Bungle158]

Apolgies, for my part l should have worded my (quoted) post more carefully. My error was an attempt at distillation of the requirements of relevant legislation into a few lines.

Nevertheless, I consider it reasonable to suggest a high likelihood of the question arising at some point the recruitment/selection stage.

 

[Handyman]

Can you update us in your situstion

 

[Enko]

I received a letter saying thanking me for responding for the enquiry lettwr and my comments will be taken into consideration

They also mentioned on another paragraph that using another persons Pass is the nost common fare evasion which are strictly non transferable as well as that i should have returned the pass instead of using it

Last but not least, they said that this matter will be processed in line with the Enforcement policy and further legal action may be taken


Apologies for the late reply

 

[Enko]

UPDATE: I received letters from TfL regarding my issue

More specifically, I received a Single Justice Procedure notice which claims that I have one charge for enterung a compulsory tickey area without valid ticket (i think section 67 of the transport act 1962)

So far, the only information I know as regards to penalty, is that I have to pay £225 costs to TfL and I dont have to pay compensation. The fine, victim surcharge and criminal record(am not sure about the last one) are yet to be specified since it depends on the three options below

As you probably already know, my options are: Guilty without court, guilty with court and not guilty with court.

Which options would you recommend me choosing in order to avoid criminal record if possible? (I am more than welcome to pay fines/compesention since i aknowledge my mistake and am not planning to repeat my mistake again)

And also could tou provide more details in terms of spent/unspent convictions?

Thank you

 

[RJ]

They take misuse of state funded concessionary cards seriously and it looks like they are taking it through the criminal justice system.

I suggest you invest in proper legal advice - maybe you can get someone to negotiate with them to settle out of court.

 

[Enko]

They take misuse of state funded concessionary cards seriously and it looks like they are taking it through the criminal justice system.

I suggest you invest in proper legal advice - maybe you can get someone to negotiate with them to settle out of court.

Do you recommend seeking advice from citizens advise bureau?

 

[najaB]

Which options would you recommend me choosing in order to avoid criminal record if possible?

If your prime objective is avoiding a criminal record then consider pleading guilty. The offence itself is non-recordable, there is some debate over if the fine would appear on a DBS check.

As it is, you didn't have a valid ticket so a conviction is almost certain.

 

[Enko]

If your prime objective is avoiding a criminal record then consider pleading guilty. The offence itself is non-recordable, there is some debate over if the fine would appear on a DBS check.

As it is, you didn't have a valid ticket so a conviction is almost certain.

Would there be a difference if i plead guilty via court compared to plead guilty while not going to court?

Which you think would be more benefitial to me? (For the record am a student who has a clear record and dont wanna ruin any career opportunities)

 

[Llanigraham]

Would there be a difference if i plead guilty via court compared to plead guilty while not going to court?

Which you think would be more benefitial to me? (For the record am a student who has a clear record and dont wanna ruin any career opportunities)

As a student I suggest you speak urgently to your college's Student Union's legal advisor

 

[najaB]

Would there be a difference if i plead guilty via court compared to plead guilty while not going to court?

Which you think would be more benefitial to me? (For the record am a student who has a clear record and dont wanna ruin any career opportunities)

It wouldn't make a difference to the fact you had a conviction, but there is a discount on the fine if you plead guilty at this stage.

Keep in mind that even if you were required to disclose the conviction (which in most cases you would not), employers will usually not hold a minor ticketing offense against you.

TfL are possibly doing you a favour by prosecuting for breaching a CTA instead of bringing more serious charges.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Although nothing replaces proper legal advice, I can't imagine pleading "not guilty" would earn you any favours. You were caught bang to rights so as najaB says above, own up and the court may be more lenient.

I'm sure others will advise, but it might be worth finding out if you can negotiate an out of court settlement "on the day - at the court" to stop the hearing going ahead

 

[Enko]

Although nothing replaces proper legal advice, I can't imagine pleading "not guilty" would earn you any favours. You were caught bang to rights so as najaB says above, own up and the court may be more lenient.

I'm sure others will advise, but it might be worth finding out if you can negotiate an out of court settlement "on the day - at the court" to stop the hearing going ahead

Am not denying the event, and high chances will plead guilty...i was asking whether to go to court or not even though i plead guilty

Though based on your response, you recommend 'guilty + court'

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Attendance may go in your favour as the magistrate may take a lenient stance if he can see that you show true remorse and that you realise the seriousness of the charge.

This, to me sounds like a lesser charge rather than fraud

But it could easily go the other way and they come down hard on you...

Turn up early and dress smart(ish)

 

[Llanigraham]

An early plea of guilty gains a 25% discount of the fine levied, so that means writing to the Court with the guilty plea and including apologies and mitigating circumstances. Attending the Court will immediately remove that discount.

 

[najaB]

Though based on your response, you recommend 'guilty + court'

If you plead guilty at this stage you are guaranteed a discount on the fine. If you go to court you might get some clemency from the magistrates.

Only you can make the judgement call.

 

[island]

An early plea of guilty gains a 25% discount of the fine levied, so that means writing to the Court with the guilty plea and including apologies and mitigating circumstances. Attending the Court will immediately remove that discount.

I do not believe this to be correct.

 

[RJ]

Keep in mind that even if you were required to disclose the conviction (which in most cases you would not), employers will usually not hold a minor ticketing offense against you.

That depends on the type of job applied for. Some employers will not enquire about convictions.

For internships and graduate schemes, they almost certainly will require disclosure of any unspent convictions and a lot of companies use pre-employment screening services to carry out checks. There's also a lot of competition for these positions and I think a conviction for an act of dishonesty will be held against applicants to be truthful.

 

[najaB]

There's also a lot of competition for these positions and I think a conviction for an act of dishonesty will be held against applicants to be truthful.

A conviction for entering a CTA without a ticket - as the OP is apparently being charged with - doesn't imply dishonesty.