Caught using a Railcard discounted ticket when no Railcard was held

[Gutted]

Hi Everyone,

I’m new to this forum and I really need your advice badly. I was caught last Monday by revenue inspector at Elstree and Borehamwood station using a one stop off ticket going to Kentish Town with discounted railcard. I pleaded and I tried to be honest with the inspector that I’ve been doing this since I started working last September. I told him that this will be a lesson learnt and promise will not do it again, hoping I will be given a chance. I was so embarrassed of what I did and I am accepting all the consequences of my actions. He took my details and now I’m feeling so worried since that incident. Any kind advice from the group? What is the best thing to do? I’m so confused. Will I wait for the letter first or shall I consult a solicitor right away for an advice even without letter? Please, I need help guys!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

Although it may be difficult, wait for the railway (or possibly an organisation called 'Transport Investigations Ltd' - some railway companies contract them to deal with matters like this) to get in touch with you. That will give you some idea of what action they are planning to take - and it's easier to respond when you know what you're responding to! It will also give you a case reference and the address to write back to, which will make it much easier to make sure that anything you send will end up with the right person.

Once the railway have written to you, there's some excellent advice that @Hadders often gives. There's an example here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...emr-what-will-happen-next.220098/post-5229901. But from what you have written, you appear to have been using the wrong tickets for most of a year, so it is quite possible that the railway will treat matters much more seriously. So I would suggest that as well as the advice I've just linked to, you do a number of other things:
- read the letter from the railway carefully. Are they just asking about the day when you were stopped or the whole period since last September? It's possible that the inspector has been kind and not noted the long period but just the day when you were stopped. (This is another good reason for not getting in touch until the railway have written to you.)
- given the number of journeys involved, the railway may decide to prosecute you, in which case it may be a good idea to get a solicitor involved. Think about whether you have anything that will let you have their support at a reduced fee. This sort of thing might come if you are a member of a trade union or student union, or possibly be covered by your house insurance. Take the time before they write to you to look around and see what you have already got! It's certainly the case that a lot of solicitors will do a free introductory interview, so if all else fails find one of those.
- if the railway do know about the long period when you didn't pay your fares, the best outcome for you is that they agree to settle out of court for the train fares you should have paid, plus their costs of investigating matters. If the matter does go to court and you are convicted, part of the punishment will be to compensate the railway - which will also be paying all the train fares. Either way, it will cost quite a lot. My guess is that unless you can show otherwise, the railways will assume in their initial calculation that you travelled five days a week, every week. But while you should now pay the fares that you didn't pay at the time, I don't see why you should pay fares for days when you didn't make the journey. So get as much evidence as you can to show otherwise. Go through old diaries, timesheets and so on to work out when you didn't travel. That might be because you were on leave from work, or off sick: given how things have been for the past year you may have been working from home rather than at your 'normal' work location.

 

[Haywain]

possibly an organisation called 'Transport Investigations Ltd' - some railway companies contract them to deal with matters like this

This will have been Thameslink/GTR, who do not use TIL.

it may be a good idea to get a solicitor involved.

Not at this stage - the OP has no need to do this until it is clear that a prosecution is the most likely outcome. Otherwise it is needless expense.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

given the number of journeys involved, it may be a good idea to get a solicitor involved

Not at this stage - the OP has no need to do this until it is clear that a prosecution is the most likely outcome. Otherwise it is needless expense.

Good point. I've now reworded to clarify what I had in mind - although I still think that it would be sensible for the OP to consider what options they have available before they need them.

 

[Gutted]

Thank you everyone for your kind reply, advice and assistance. At this stage, will I have to wait for the letter so I I will know which appropriate action will I make? I have consulted a solicitor yesterday because I was really very scared and worried and they are asking £1040 for the fixed legal fees cost without the assurance of success. Is it best to just wait for the letter? How long does it usually takes to receive a letter?

 

[Haywain]

will I have to wait for the letter so I I will know which appropriate action will I make?

Wait for the letter. It will typically take between 2 and 6 weeks, but the train company can bring court action up to 6 months after the offence was committed. Most people who come to this forum for help successfully handle their own cases through to an out of court settlement without the need to pay for a solicitor.

 

[Gutted]

Wait for the letter. It will typically take between 2 and 6 weeks, but the train company can bring court action up to 6 months after the offence was committed. Most people who come to this forum for help successfully handle their own cases through to an out of court settlement without the need to pay for a solicitor.

Thank you very much for kind response and guidance. I’m really desperate for help and I didn’t realise the consequences of my action and I’m very regretful and in great deal of remorse right now. I am just human, I and commit mistakes and just hoping they will give me a chance to settle it out of court. Anyway, thank you for your time for help. I appreciate it so much. I’ll keep you all posted if I receive a letter. Fingers crossed that it will be sorted and this incident is a a lesson learned.

 

[skyhigh]

I was caught last Monday by revenue inspector at Elstree and Borehamwood station using a one stop off ticket going to Kentish Town with discounted railcard. I pleaded and I tried to be honest with the inspector that I’ve been doing this since I started working last September.

I presume you didn't hold the railcard you used to discount the tickets? They may choose to only deal with the latest incident, in which case things should be fairly straightforward if you engage with them when they send you a letter.

On the other hand, if they choose to deal with this since September, given the period of time you've been doing this, expect any offer of a settlement to be a fairly significant figure (as a starting point they may take the price of an anytime return, multiply it by the number of working days since September last year and add their investigation costs of several hundred pounds on top of that). From the train company's point of view, you've taken two deliberate actions to avoid paying the fare you should have done.

Regardless, wait until they send you a letter, when it comes read it carefully and come back here for further advice. Don't contact them first and don't get a lawyer yet.

 

[Gutted]

I presume you didn't hold the railcard you used to discount the tickets? They may choose to only deal with the latest incident, in which case things should be fairly straightforward if you engage with them when they send you a letter.

On the other hand, if they choose to deal with this since September, given the period of time you've been doing this, expect any offer of a settlement to be a fairly significant figure (as a starting point they may take the price of an anytime return, multiply it by the number of working days since September last year and add their investigation costs of several hundred pounds on top of that). From the train company's point of view, you've taken two deliberate actions to avoid paying the fare you should have done.

Regardless, wait until they send you a letter, when it comes read it carefully and come back here for further advice. Don't contact them first and don't get a lawyer yet.

Thank you for your kind advice, at least now, I feel a bit relieved. I admitted to the inspector officer that I’ve been doing it since September as I’m short of money but I know it’s not a valid reason, by law it’s still wrong and unlawful. I have to face the consequences of my wrongdoing. I am very sorry for what happened and promised not to do it in future. I’m just hoping that they won’t sent me to court. I’m not really a bad person.

Thank you for your kind advice, at least now, I feel a bit relieved. I admitted to the inspector officer that I’ve been doing it since September as I’m short of money but I know it’s not a valid reason, by law it’s still wrong and unlawful. I have to face the consequences of my wrongdoing. I am very sorry for what happened and promised not to do it in future. I’m just hoping that they won’t sent me to court. I’m not really a bad person.

Thank you as well for giving me an idea how to calculate, so I will have an estimated amount of how much will I pay them if ever. Thank you for being so helpful. I appreciate your kind help and assistance.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I've put below the advice I normally give to people who request help from the forum in similar circumstances to yours.

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter when it arrives (with personal details removed) and I'm sure members on here will be happy to assist in proof reading your reply. In the meantime I'm afraid it's a waiting game, there's no point in engaging a solicitor at this stage (and you almost certainly won't need to either).

 

[6Gman]

Thank you everyone for your kind reply, advice and assistance. At this stage, will I have to wait for the letter so I I will know which appropriate action will I make? I have consulted a solicitor yesterday because I was really very scared and worried and they are asking £1040 for the fixed legal fees cost without the assurance of success. Is it best to just wait for the letter? How long does it usually takes to receive a letter?

What would "success" mean in this context?

 

[Gutted]

What would "success" mean in this context?

Success that it will be settled out of court.

 

[Hadders]

Success that it will be settled out of court.

The best chance of this is to follow the advice I gave in my earlier post.

 

[Gutted]

The best chance of this is to follow the advice I gave in my earlier post.

Thank you for all of your help. I appreciate it a lot! It give me so much relief. Although it’s not sorted yet, but at least the thought that there are kind and understanding people who is willing to offer advice and take time to reply. Thank you for accepting me to be part of this forum.

 

[Joopeng]

Is it sorted now ?

 

[Gutted]

The letter I received is asking me to respond within 7 days about the fare evasion I have committed last 23/08/2021. The name that was on the letter is wrong with my First name. It has missing one letter. Shall I still reply and respond to the letter? I know it’s intended for me, will I write a letter of apology explaining the consequences of my action?

 

[Stigy]

The letter I received is asking me to respond within 7 days about the fare evasion I have committed last 23/08/2021. The name that was on the letter is wrong with my First name. It has missing one letter. Shall I still reply and respond to the letter? I know it’s intended for me, will I write a letter of apology explaining the consequences of my action?

This is in the wrong section, I’ve reported it so hopefully it’ll be moved for you. It also looks like there is stuff missing, almost like it should be part of another thread? I’ll reply on the basis this is a standalone thread.

I suggest responding to the letter and following the usual advice on the forum regarding such issues. This was clearly a typo and typos happen and, contrary to what some believe, you can still be summonsed to court with a slight misspelling of your name. It’ll just be rectified.

You haven’t given much detail about the alleged offence, which we’d need ideally to make objective comments and advise you properly, but the bottom line is, you should reply to the letter.

 

[Gutted]

This is in the wrong section, I’ve reported it so hopefully it’ll be moved for you. It also looks like there is stuff missing, almost like it should be part of another thread? I’ll reply on the basis this is a standalone thread.

I suggest responding to the letter and following the usual advice on the forum regarding such issues. This was clearly a typo and typos happen and, contrary to what some believe, you can still be summonsed to court with a slight misspelling of your name. It’ll just be rectified.

You haven’t given much detail about the alleged offence, which we’d need ideally to make objective comments and advise you properly, but the bottom line is, you should reply to the letter.

I used a discounted and one stop ticket from Elstree And Borehamwood Station going to Kentish Town, the ticket that I bought is from Elstree and Borehamwood to Radlett and I confessed that I have been doing that since September 2020. Can I ask some advice on how will I reply to the letter. Kindly please advise me the best way to settle it out of court. Thank you very much!

 

[furlong]

So to get a settlement, they are likely to need to be convinced you are now being honest and they've uncovered all your offending - they will be checking everything you've told them against whatever other evidence they can find such as records of payments and ticket sales. They're also likely to need to be convinced you're never going to try to cheat with your fares again. (Perhaps you start to buy season tickets?) And then they'll expect to be compensated for the tickets you should have bought but didn't and their own costs involved in investigating all this.

So that's what the letter you send needs to try to do. As Stigy already said, a spelling error doesn't affect any of this.

Did you always buy the tickets in the same way? If you have records - for example card statements, or attendance records if this was travel to a work or education setting - you might provide a copy to help to calculate the loss and demonstrate your remorse through co-operation. Basically give them an estimate of the number of journeys. Sometimes they invite you to a "voluntary" interview to try to work out the extent of what happened.

That solicitor seems very expensive at this early stage and you might be able to handle it OK yourself. If it is indeed GTR, there are several threads in the forum where out-of-court settlements were reported without solicitors being involved.

 

[Gutted]

Thank you for your kind advices. With these kind of case, do you think it’s still possible to sort it out of court?

 

[Haywain]

Thank you for your kind advices. With these kind of case, do you think it’s still possible to sort it out of court?

Referring back to post #10, you can write to GTR and ask to settle; from previous threads it appears that they usually do settle out of court if they are approached. I disagree with @furlong about sending a calculation of what you have 'saved' as GTR will have their own ideas of this. You would do well to follow the advice given earlier by @Hadders:

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

 

[Gutted]

Thank you Haywain,
I replied to their letter thru e-mail. How long will they reply and will they give me a response that they have received it or I’ll get another response letter through post?

 

[Haywain]

Thank you Haywain,
I replied to their letter thru e-mail. How long will they reply and will they give me a response that they have received it or I’ll get another response letter through post?

I would guess that they'll reply by post, and may take a couple of weeks.

 

[Gutted]

I would guess that they'll reply by post, and may take a couple of weeks.

Thank you! If ever I receive their response, I’ll try to post it in the forum. I will definitely be needing your advice and guidance. Thank you very much!

Thank you! If ever I receive their response, I’ll try to post it in the forum. I will definitely be needing your advice and guidance. Thank you very much!

Thank you for your response.

Since you were stopped on the 23rd August, Govia Thameslink Railway opened an investigation into your ticket purchase history at Elstree & Borehamwood station, I have not finished yet, so far numerous short ticket transactions have been identified.

My role within GTR's Fraud Department is to decide what course of action is most appropriate in a fraud investigation such as this. I have the option of referring your case to our Prosecutions Department, or alternatively, we can attempt to resolve the matter via the payment of a financial settlement, consisting of any rail fares that have been avoided plus GTR's costs.



Given your circumstances I am prepared to offer you an opportunity to try and reach a settlement agreement with GTR, however for this to happen your full cooperation and honesty are required. Please note, if we are unable to agree on a satisfactory outcome regarding this matter, your case will be referred to GTR's Prosecutions Department, which will either result in a court summons being issued, or the matter being passed to the British Transport Police.



I am currently on leave however I will resume with your case upon my return on Tuesday 2nd November. I believe a brief call to discuss matters may be beneficial to both parties as this may save time my end and in turn keep investigation costs down.



Kind regards,



Aiden









Fraud investigation Department

Govia Thameslink Railway



Email: [email protected]

Tel: 0330 095 6934

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thank you for your response.

Since you were stopped on the 23rd August, Govia Thameslink Railway opened an investigation into your ticket purchase history at Elstree & Borehamwood station, I have not finished yet, so far numerous short ticket transactions have been identified.

My role within GTR's Fraud Department is to decide what course of action is most appropriate in a fraud investigation such as this. I have the option of referring your case to our Prosecutions Department, or alternatively, we can attempt to resolve the matter via the payment of a financial settlement, consisting of any rail fares that have been avoided plus GTR's costs.



Given your circumstances I am prepared to offer you an opportunity to try and reach a settlement agreement with GTR, however for this to happen your full cooperation and honesty are required. Please note, if we are unable to agree on a satisfactory outcome regarding this matter, your case will be referred to GTR's Prosecutions Department, which will either result in a court summons being issued, or the matter being passed to the British Transport Police.



I am currently on leave however I will resume with your case upon my return on Tuesday 2nd November. I believe a brief call to discuss matters may be beneficial to both parties as this may save time my end and in turn keep investigation costs down.



Kind regards,



[xxx]









Fraud investigation Department

Govia Thameslink Railway



Email: [xxx}

Tel:[xxx}

To me, this reads to me as if GTR are open to settling out of court as long as you fully co-operate. So take the opportunity to phone them up once their case worker is back from leave. Work out all the occasions that you haven't paid the right fare, and share that information with GTR. Why do that? Because the case worker has told you that 'so far numerous short ticket transactions have been identified' but they haven't told you which ones they are. If the caseworker thinks that you're only mentioning some of the occasions that they have found then they will conclude that you're not being fully co-operative and they'll move to court (or passing the case to the police).

Of course, GTR will want the fare for each time you didn't get the right ticket, so this will not be cheap to settle. But my expectation would be that this will still be cheaper than letting the matter go to court.

 

[Gutted]

To me, this reads to me as if GTR are open to settling out of court as long as you fully co-operate. So take the opportunity to phone them up once their case worker is back from leave. Work out all the occasions that you haven't paid the right fare, and share that information with GTR. Why do that? Because the case worker has told you that 'so far numerous short ticket transactions have been identified' but they haven't told you which ones they are. If the caseworker thinks that you're only mentioning some of the occasions that they have found then they will conclude that you're not being fully co-operative and they'll move to court (or passing the case to the police).

Of course, GTR will want the fare for each time you didn't get the right ticket, so this will not be cheap to settle. But my expectation would be that this will still be cheaper than letting the matter go to court.

Thank you very much for the advice. I felt a bit relieved that they are considering to settle it out of court if I cooperate and tried to be honest with them.

 

[Wolfie]

Thank you very much for the advice. I felt a bit relieved that they are considering to settle it out of court if I cooperate and tried to be honest with them.

Agreed. Be very careful though if they do an interview under caution.

 

[Haywain]

Agreed. Be very careful though if they do an interview under caution.

A phone call won’t be under caution though.

 

[Wolfie]

A phone call won’t be under caution though.

Ah, ok

 

[30907]

A phone call won’t be under caution though.

Nevertheless, I would advise against admitting to anything other than the offences they have identified - I suspect they have enough already.
(If after this has all been resolved, your conscience is still troubled, then a priest or similar is the person to turn to.)