Caught with child ticket - EMR - What will happen next?

[ernielx]

Hi,

just wondering if anyone can help me, i have bad anxiety which i am on medication for and so cannot stop worrying about this.

i’m 18 and recently got caught with a child ticket, (first time) i have never been in trouble with the police before or anything like that and am going to uni in september to study nursing. the officer took me aside and interviewed me, took my details and ID, he said i was not going to be arrested or prosecuted but to expect a fine in the post within 8-10weeks and that his advise is to pay it to sort it asap. was travelling on east midland train.

i know it was an ignorant and stupid thing to do and i do regret it. i was trying to save some extra cash as my mum is a single parent and i have to help her pay bills and things for my siblings and have had to provide for myself since i was first able to get a job ( again i know there is no excuse ).

i’m scared i’ll have to go to court and will end up with a criminal record which will jeopardise my future career path all because of a stupid thing i did, or worse go to prison.

does anyone know what will happen? thanks.

 

[Nova1]

If it's a penalty fare, it's not going to be a criminal thing, just pay it and it'll go away.

Penalty Fares Policy | Our policies | EMR | East Midlands Railway

 

[island]

If it's a penalty fare, it's not going to be a criminal thing, just pay it and it'll go away.

Penalty Fares Policy | Our policies | EMR | East Midlands Railway

It’s not a penalty fare as penalty fares can only be issued in person at the time of the alleged violation.

 

[Nova1]

It’s not a penalty fare as penalty fares can only be issued in person at the time of the alleged violation.

ah nevermind then, the way OP had worded it I assumed it was a penalty fare

 

[ernielx]

ah nevermind then, the way OP had worded it I assumed it was a penalty fare

yeah i don’t think it’s a penalty fare, i was just told i’m not getting prosecuted so should i just expect a pretty hefty fine?
worrying a lot.

 

[island]

Whilst by the most technical definition fines can only be issued by courts, it is likely that you will be asked to pay a sum of money that might colloquially be referred to as a “fine” in return for which the matter will be taken no further.

This would not result in a court attendance, a criminal record, etc.

Sums frequently mentioned in connection with a once off violation and no aggravating factors are in the £100 region; a pattern of previous violations, inappropriate behaviour towards ticket inspectors, and so on would push it upwards from there.

 

[Haywain]

yeah i don’t think it’s a penalty fare, i was just told i’m not getting prosecuted so should i just expect a pretty hefty fine?
worrying a lot.

Someone will soon, no doubt, say that only a court can impose a fine*. What EMR are likely to 'offer' is an out of court settlement, which is a payment that resolves the issue to their satisfaction and means you won't be prosecuted. This works because the alternative if you decline their offer is that they will prosecute. But it will probably take a few weeks before you get a letter so rather than worrying work out how you are going to pay an amount which will be around £100 on top of the fares they believe you owe.


*Marginally quicker than I anticipated.

 

[ernielx]

Whilst by the most technical definition fines can only be issued by courts, it is likely that you will be asked to pay a sum of money that might colloquially be referred to as a “fine” in return for which the matter will be taken no further.

This would not result in a court attendance, a criminal record, etc.

Sums frequently mentioned in connection with a once off violation and no aggravating factors are in the £100 region; a pattern of previous violations, inappropriate behaviour towards ticket inspectors, and so on would push it upwards from there.

thank you i haven’t done it before and have since travelled on the train and made sure i’ve purchased adult tickets as i know it was a stupid thing to do. i complied with the ticket inspector and was not abusive or anything like that as it’s not in my nature to be that way.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

The most likely result? As the officer said, the railway (or possibly their agents - some train companies put this work out to an organisation called 'Transport Investigations Ltd') will write to you. They'll ask for your side of the story, and you should give it briefly, clearly and politely. They will not be interested in excuses (because that will be how they see your family circumstances, your career plans and your anxiety) so don't mention them: rather, explain that you now know that you did the wrong thing, and you won't do it again. Ask if the railway will allow you to settle the matter for the train fare you didn't pay and their investigation costs. It's most likely that they will agree to settle, and as long as you pay the settlement, that's the end of the matter.

It's less likely, but still possible that they will insist on the matter going to court. If that happens, and you lose at court (and on the basis of what you have told us you most probably would lose) then you will have to pay a fine plus court costs plus the train fare. But this won't be a disaster for your chosen career in nursing: have a look at what the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) have to say at https://www.nmc.org.uk/ftp-library/...llegations/criminal-convictions-and-cautions/:

Considering criminal conviction or caution declarations​

Nurses, midwives or nursing associates must declare any cautions or convictions, unless these are for a protected caution or conviction, when they apply to join our register or renew their registration with us.
(...)

Assessing the seriousness of convictions and cautions​

If the criminal offending was directly linked to the nurse, midwife or nursing associate’s professional practice, it’s very likely this would be serious enough to affect their fitness to practise.

(...)

If the criminal offending took place in the nurse, midwife or nursing associate’s private life, and there’s no clear risk to patients or members of the public, then it is unlikely that we’ll need to take regulatory action to uphold confidence in nurses, midwives or nursing associates, or professional standards.

(my italics)

So you'll have to tell the NMC (and your university as well) about the conviction - but realistically it won't stop you becoming a nurse or working as one when you qualify.

Try not to worry too much about this: it's not a good thing to have happened, but it's not the end of the world.

 

[ernielx]

Someone will soon, no doubt, say that only a court can impose a fine*. What EMR are likely to 'offer' is an out of court settlement, which is a payment that resolves the issue to their satisfaction and means you won't be prosecuted. This works because the alternative if you decline their offer is that they will prosecute. But it will probably take a few weeks before you get a letter so rather than worrying work out how you are going to pay an amount which will be around £100 on top of the fares they believe you owe.


*Marginally quicker than I anticipated.

thank you i’m willing to pay whatever the offer is as i deeply regret it and want to put it right. it’s been 3 weeks and i haven’t heard anything yet but should have the sufficient funds to pay.

Welcome to the forum.

The most likely result? As the officer said, the railway (or possibly their agents - some train companies put this work out to an organisation called 'Transport Investigations Ltd') will write to you. They'll ask for your side of the story, and you should give it briefly, clearly and politely. They will not be interested in excuses (because that will be how they see your family circumstances, your career plans and your anxiety) so don't mention them: rather, explain that you now know that you did the wrong thing, and you won't do it again. Ask if the railway will allow you to settle the matter for the train fare you didn't pay and their investigation costs. It's most likely that they will agree to settle, and as long as you pay the settlement, that's the end of the matter.

It's less likely, but still possible that they will insist on the matter going to court. If that happens, and you lose at court (and on the basis of what you have told us you most probably would lose) then you will have to pay a fine plus court costs plus the train fare. But this won't be a disaster for your chosen career in nursing: have a look at what the Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) have to say at https://www.nmc.org.uk/ftp-library/...llegations/criminal-convictions-and-cautions/:


(my italics)

So you'll have to tell the NMC (and your university as well) about the conviction - but realistically it won't stop you becoming a nurse or working as one when you qualify.

Try not to worry too much about this: it's not a good thing to have happened, but it's not the end of the world.

thank you for the help i’m hoping it’ll just be an out of court settlement as i’m willing to pay whatever it may be, just hoping it does not go to court as a conviction for such a silly thing which i shouldn’t have done would be awful. just worried i’d end up in prison.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I've put below the advice I normally give to people who request help from the forum in similar circumstances to yours.

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

 

[ernielx]

Welcome to the forum!

I've put below the advice I normally give to people who request help from the forum in similar circumstances to yours.

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

thank you for the help i’m hoping they’ll settle it with just a fine as i’m willing to pay whatever it may be to correct it as i deeply regret it. scared i’ll end up in prison or something for such a silly thing.

 

[Watershed]

scared i’ll end up in prison or something for such a silly thing.

As this is your first 'irregularity', prison is categorically impossible. The laws that you could be accused of breaking (one is called Railway Byelaw 18, the other is called the Regulation of Railways Act 1889) have a fine as the worst possible sentence for a first offence. So it's simply not one of the options available to the judge, even if you were to be taken to Court and convicted.

 

[ernielx]

As this is your first 'irregularity', prison is categorically impossible. The laws that you could be accused of breaking (one is called Railway Byelaw 18, the other is called the Regulation of Railways Act 1889) have a fine as the worst possible sentence for a first offence. So it's simply not one of the options available to the judge, even if you were to be taken to Court and convicted.

thanks, thought it was a bit far-fetched but can’t help but worry.

 

[WesternLancer]

thank you for the help i’m hoping they’ll settle it with just a fine as i’m willing to pay whatever it may be to correct it as i deeply regret it. scared i’ll end up in prison or something for such a silly thing.

The point is I doubt (as the member of staff who spoke to you implied, or you went away thinking he may have meant) that they will just write and say "give us £x and we will not prosecute" - they will probably write with what they believe you did and ask for your version of events. You need to prepare your short reply with an apology and an expression of clear regret and that you have learned your lesson and will not do it again.

I assume you gave a correct postal address for them to contact you for this letter (if not it will create more probs as will end up going to court without you knowing about it), when you get it you need to reply ASAP in writing. You could think now about what to write. If you post a draft on this forum of your reply when they write to you (which may be in a few weeks) people will, I am sure, help you get the wording right with a view to minimizing the chances of them taking it further (eg to court for example).

Don't worry more about this now if you can manage that, maybe confide in your mum if you think that might be a good idea, so you can talk it over with a trusted family member instead of getting more anxious. You have obv learned a lesson here since you have started buying the correct tickets.

You will not end up in prison and it is highly likely that if you co-operate on this (ie answer their letters) it will not go to court either.

Good luck with this, and for the future, we obv need all the nurses we can get to help people who need that help so don't let this damage your future prospects in a good and worthwhile career.

 

[ernielx]

The point is I doubt (as the member of staff who spoke to you implied, or you went away thinking he may have meant) that they will just write and say "give us £x and we will not prosecute" - they will probably write with what they believe you did and ask for your version of events. You need to prepare your short reply with an apology and an expression of clear regret and that you have learned your lesson and will not do it again.

I assume you gave a correct postal address for them to contact you for this letter (if not it will create more probs as will end up going to court without you knowing about it), when you get it you need to reply ASAP in writing. You could think now about what to write. If you post a draft on this forum of your reply when they write to you (which may be in a few weeks) people will, I am sure, help you get the wording right with a view to minimizing the chances of them taking it further (eg to court for example).

Don't worry more about this now if you can manage that, maybe confide in your mum if you think that might be a good idea, so you can talk it over with a trusted family member instead of getting more anxious. You have obv learned a lesson here since you have started buying the correct tickets.

You will not end up in prison and it is highly likely that if you co-operate on this (ie answer their letters) it will not go to court either.

Good luck with this, and for the future, we obv need all the nurses we can get to help people who need that help so don't let this damage your future prospects in a good and worthwhile career.

thank you for the help i really appreciate it i’ve spoken to my parents and they’re going to help me settle it and write the letter if and when it comes (pay the fine also) so hopefully all should be ok, i’ll never do it again as i have learnt my lesson.

 

[Dai Corner]

thank you for the help i really appreciate it i’ve spoken to my parents and they’re going to help me settle it and write the letter if and when it comes (pay the fine also) so hopefully all should be ok, i’ll never do it again as i have learnt my lesson.

Have you considered getting a Railcard?

 

[WesternLancer]

thank you for the help i really appreciate it i’ve spoken to my parents and they’re going to help me settle it and write the letter if and when it comes (pay the fine also) so hopefully all should be ok, i’ll never do it again as i have learnt my lesson.

Great stuff, that's good work for prep too. I think there are examples of letters on older threads on this forum from over the last year say, but I'm not sure I can quickly find one. They may give you an idea for a starting point.

Good that you have support and help from your family behind you. Also like I say, people here will help advise you at each step so when you hear from the Railway you may want to update the thread if you need any advice on what the letter you have got means and how best to respond.

Even though this is hanging over you and it is serious, don't let it spoil your summer with worry or anxiety.

 

[ernielx]

Great stuff, that's good work for prep too. I think there are examples of letters on older threads on this forum from over the last year say, but I'm not sure I can quickly find one. They may give you an idea for a starting point.

Good that you have support and help from your family behind you. Also like I say, people here will help advise you at each step so when you hear from the Railway you may want to update the thread if you need any advice on what the letter you have got means and how best to respond.

Even though this is hanging over you and it is serious, don't let it spoil your summer with worry or

thanks i will most likely update if and when i receive the letter. thanks again for all the help.

Have you considered getting a Railcard?

i have thought about it, just haven’t purchased one as of yet, is it something i should do? thanks

 

[Nova1]

i have thought about it, just haven’t purchased one as of yet, is it something i should do? thanks

Depends if you travel often enough to make it worth it. You mentioned you are 18, a 16-25 Railcard costs £30 for one year, and will give you 1/3 (one third) off most national rail tickets, main restriction is there's a £12 minimum fare during the morning peak. 16-25 Railcard

 

[Dai Corner]

Depends if you travel often enough to make it worth it. You mentioned you are 18, a 16-25 Railcard costs £30 for one year, and will give you 1/3 (one third) off most national rail tickets. 16-25 Railcard

I note the OP is going to University in the autumn. Some student bank accounts offer a free Railcard.

 

[ernielx]

Depends if you travel often enough to make it worth it. You mentioned you are 18, a 16-25 Railcard costs £30 for one year, and will give you 1/3 (one third) off most national rail tickets, main restriction is there's a £12 minimum fare during the morning peak. 16-25 Railcard

i think it would be worth it, i also want to show how i have no intention of repeating my actions again as i’ve learnt my lesson. thanks again for the help

 

[ernielx]

i’ve just received a letter stating that evidence is being considered as to whether legal proceedings are appropriate and that i should write any factors that may influence any decision. i have 14 days to respond however it’s already been three as it has only just arrived. i’d love to keep this out of court. please help

 

[Hadders]

I recommend you follow the advice I posted further up thread.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

i’ve just received a letter stating that evidence is being considered as to whether legal proceedings are appropriate and that i should write any factors that may influence any decision. i have 14 days to respond however it’s already been three as it has only just arrived. i’d love to keep this out of court. please help

I recommend you follow the advice I posted further up thread.

And if you're worried about whether you've written the right thing, then feel free to put what you're planning to send here: there will be people who can suggest improvements if any are needed.

 

[ernielx]

i’m hoping to get this sent off tomorrow as i’d like to resolve it asap

please let me know if this is any good
-
-
- Dear Sir/Madam,

I can confirm that it was me who was stopped on 30th June 2021 by a member of staff regarding the payment of a rail fare.

I am deeply sorry that this incident has caused a loss to you and has been of great inconvenience. Reflecting on my naivety I have taken the time to research the effects of this on your company and I now understand how not paying correct fare impacts the rail company, the action I took was very much out of character and I am ashamed of it.

By way of resolution, I am offering to pay the outstanding fare along with any costs you have incurred so that we could settle the matter without resorting to the Courts. I would be extremely grateful if you could confirm by response what this sum would be.

Please be assured that I will never do this again and have since learned my lesson and make sure that I purchase the correct fare. I am sure you will understand my desire to avoid legal action and the consequences of such, I hope you will allow me to pay back what I owe.

Once again please accept my sincere apologies as a result of my actions, I hope I am able to put this right with you.

Thank you for your assistance and I look forward to hearing from you,

Yours faithfully,

 

[Fawkes Cat]

i’m hoping to get this sent off tomorrow as i’d like to resolve it asap

please let me know if this is any good
-
-
- Dear Sir/Madam,

I can confirm that it was me who was stopped on 30th June 2021 by a member of staff regarding the payment of a rail fare.

I am deeply sorry that this incident has caused a loss to you and has been of great inconvenience. Reflecting on my naivety I have taken the time to research the effects of this on your company and I now understand how not paying the correct fare impacts the rail company. The action I took was very much out of character and I am ashamed of it.

By way of resolution, I am offering would like to pay the outstanding fare along with any costs you have incurred so that we could settle the matter without resorting to the Courts. I would be extremely grateful if you could confirm by response if this would be acceptable to you, and if so what this sum would be.

Please be assured that I will never do this again and have since learned my lesson and in future will make sure that I purchase the correct fare. I am sure you will understand my desire to avoid legal action and the consequences of such. I hope you will allow me to pay back what I owe.

Once again please accept my sincere apologies as a result of my actions, I hope I am able to put this right with you.

Thank you for your assistance and I look forward to hearing from you,

Yours faithfully,

I think that would be fine as it stands. I've made a few suggestions about paragraph 3 (remember, the railway doesn't have to offer you a chance to settle out of court so you can ask them for this but you shouldn't assume that they will agree). I've also put in a few suggestions which I think improves the grammar, but what you're trying to say is clear, and that's what is important in this sort of letter - you're not going to be taken to court for 'incorrect use of punctuation marks'. So only change the letter if you want to.

Don't forget to keep a copy of what you send in: if things do go further it's always useful to know exactly what you have said and when.

 

[ernielx]

I think that would be fine as it stands. I've made a few suggestions about paragraph 3 (remember, the railway doesn't have to offer you a chance to settle out of court so you can ask them for this but you shouldn't assume that they will agree). I've also put in a few suggestions which I think improves the grammar, but what you're trying to say is clear, and that's what is important in this sort of letter - you're not going to be taken to court for 'incorrect use of punctuation marks'. So only change the letter if you want to.

Don't forget to keep a copy of what you send in: if things do go further it's always useful to know exactly what you have said and when.

Thank you so much

 

[SD_78882]

Thank you so much

good luck!!!!! hopefully they'll get back to you soon

 

[ernielx]

good luck!!!!! hopefully they'll get back to you soon

i hope so thank youuu

I think that would be fine as it stands. I've made a few suggestions about paragraph 3 (remember, the railway doesn't have to offer you a chance to settle out of court so you can ask them for this but you shouldn't assume that they will agree). I've also put in a few suggestions which I think improves the grammar, but what you're trying to say is clear, and that's what is important in this sort of letter - you're not going to be taken to court for 'incorrect use of punctuation marks'. So only change the letter if you want to.

Don't forget to keep a copy of what you send in: if things do go further it's always useful to know exactly what you have said and when.

Just an update, thank you so much for all your help I appreciate it so much! I’ve received another letter and they’ve offered a settlement of £150 plus the outstanding fare which i couldn’t pay quick enough. I can finally stop worrying, thank you all so, so much